Will i charge them or not?

Ricky91t

Well i shoot local sports and normally just attacht a few shotsto an email and send them off to a few papers and advertisers iv only done this twice and the paper i supply doesn't seem to be to fond of me as a thing i was covering for them was never received after i emailed it about 7 times.
But the local advertiser,has printed 2 of my photos of different games and im just wondering wether to charge or not i get the feeling they are doing it to be nice to me,as another fella i know gets his pics printed and some are quiet bad,but his mum knows the woman working there etc im sure you know what i mean.
Iv got three choices
A)Will i stick an invoce in the post explaining they've used 2 of my photos and hope they dont mind.
will i just be happy i have something i can show to future employers etc..(dont want to be criticised on this its just a suggestion)
C)Contact them and explain as this is possibly my career choice i need to make money from it and there for will need to start charging for any photos they use after this email
Any help greatly appreciated

And please no comments implying im stupid for not charging them etc

These are the two pics:

silverside

i would say (B)

the photos dont stand out to me as "good" shots

that is not meant as criticism so please dont be offended.

Ricky91t

silverside wrote: »

i would say (B)

the photos dont stand out to me as "good" shots

that is not meant as criticism so please dont be offended.

Nope no offence taken these by far aren't my best shots but at alot of these matches im the only person there(taking photos) and i have seen worse in the local papers so im not too bothered
And they did pick 2 photos i disliked the most but it keeps them happy....

Paulw

I don't think it matters if the images are good or not. They were used, and that's all that matters. It's their choice if they like them or not.

I would say go for either A) or C).

Personally, I'd say A) is the more direct approach. They used your images, and therefore they should pay. As for if they mind or not ... they didn't mind using your images without asking your rates for the images, so why should you mind sending in an invoice?

But, on a good will gesture, go for C), and stress that any future images used will be charged for.

I certainly wouldn't just let it go. I wouldn't go for as nothing comes from nothing. Getting images printed doesn't pay for camera gear.

dh0661

I would say contact any publication that you have submitted your photos to, and say only for publication if you give me accreditation, ie. picture by Joe Bloggs, for each photo you publish.
Add all those pictures to you portfolio, go and do what ever courses and exams you need to get "qualified".
A good portfolio is worth more than any qualification.

Paulw

dh0661 wrote: »

I would say contact any publication that you have submitted your photos to, and say only for publication if you give me accreditation, ie. picture by Joe Bloggs, for each photo you publish.

Sorry, but what does "photo by" get you? Usually, not a whole lot.

Much better to get credit and be paid.

Why should they not pay? They're in business. The less people want to get paid, then the more papers/publications think they can get all their photos for free.

There have been a few threads here of publications using people's photos, without paying. This kind of attitude - you should be happy with a credit - continues to make these publications think they don't need to pay, that you should be happy to see your name in print.

Money talks.

Ricky91t

Ok then next few questions thanks for the answers.
I'll be emailing them explaining this and will i list the price in the email and if so how much?

and thanks for the replies ill thank people when i can

Ricky91t

Just to add they allready print my name in it

deRanged

what did you say when you sent the images in, and under what clearly explained copyright agreement did you send them in?

might it just be that they thought that as you sent them the images they were free to use them?

option c seems the most sensible approach.

Dwilly

I would suggest invoicing them, as this is the most professional approach. In my experience the more professional you conduct yourself the more you will be treated as a pro. If you ask them would it be OK to get paid they might see you as something less and take advantage as such.

Just wondering, did you send them hi res shots from the outset? Perhaps any time you send photos attach a rate card with the email, so they've no argument that they didn't know if they end up using the shots.

City-Exile

Ring them, ask them if they have a rate for images submitted.
Then invoice them for the images, being careful not to charge V.A.T. as I assume you're not registered. Make sure you keep a copy of all invoices, as they often go "missing" and you will need to keep a record of your earnings, to determine if there are Tax implications, at the end of the year.

WHIP IT!

silverside wrote: »

i would say (B)

the photos dont stand out to me as "good" shots

that is not meant as criticism so please dont be offended.

Having worked in the sports section of several newspapers - these shots are in fact perfect for what you look for: ie, one member of each team plus ball! Perfect.

I would definitely send in the invoice.

Deliverance XXV

deRanged wrote: »

option c seems the most sensible approach.

+1

Def agree. They can consider it a free introduction. Send them a price list to sort out any future confusion.

unreggd

Paulw wrote: »

There have been a few threads here of publications using people's photos, without paying. This kind of attitude - you should be happy with a credit - continues to make these publications think they don't need to pay, that you should be happy to see your name in print

+1

The never need very pro lookin shots

And quality aint important as its gna look sh!te printed on newspaper and copied a bajillion times anyways


They'll always avoid paying out by gettin someone who's only startin, but if you say you're the only one at these matches, then your in a good position to ask for pay, as its ur pics or no pics

G/L

Ricky91t

Ok thanks all for the help im not 100% which of the answers ill go with so i just need abit more help.

How much is a good price to charge of am i better off asking them what they pay?
As they have alot of write ups on sports do you think i should offer to cover games for them if they need any?(i doint think they have someone for sports pics)

Thanks for all the help so far

Paulw

Why not offer a low price like €60. Also, make sure to suggest that you're available to cover other sporting events for them, should they need, in future.

That should set a good impression and hopefully open more options for you.

smelltheglove

I agree these aren't the best shots but I would say they are definitely the worst shots of any of your work I've seen. You have some great shots from other games and sports.

I would go for c, I would send them on a mail or letter explaining that you are withholding copyright for future shots and all samples you send to them will be watermarked, then they may request an image from you for print under a pre-arranged agreement.

Pasyment wise, I think it depends on the shot really, do you know how much you want to charge them? Or you could possibly leave them to offer you an amount and haggle! At the end of the day if they don't want to pay let them get lesser quality elsewhere!

City-Exile

smelltheglove, the technical level of these images isn't the issue here.
This thread isn't for C&C.

A paper has chosen to print the images & the OP wanted to know what he should do, with regard to seeking payment.


Ricky, most papers will have a rate card, so it's best to ask them what they pay.

LeoB

Ricky, I would drop in and explain to the EDITOR its your aim to make a "living" from sports photography and/ or stuff of a regional interest. SILVERSIDE These photos are perfect for their publication, its easy to identify the players and the ball is there. I could see one of them hanging in the pub that sponsors the team. Local Interest is the key to local papers.I bet if the player phoned the paper he could have a print of the image, for €25. I think a nice approach will work for you. Well I hope it does.
Fogra. Pity about the rain today spoiling the U.G.P. Was hoping to go up with my brother but will have to wait for another oppertunity. Prob Killalane

silverside

i take on board what you said.. i have a tendency to be overly critical - i agree they are as good as many shots i used to see in local media.

thinking again - i suppose if they are using them regularly they should pay whatever the "going rate" is... main reason you would do freebies is to build a reputation / CV but i suppose you're past that now.

DotOrg

ricky91t wrote: »

t i get the feeling they are doing it to be nice to me

They are printing your photos because it is content for their paper! I presume they aren't a charity? I presume they charge every single advertiser in their paper?

You provided content, they pay, no ifs, no buts, they are obliged to pay by using something that is your copyright

have a look at this UK site: http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/phregrat.html

Lionsden

I think the main point is that they didn't "steal" the pictures, you sent them to them with no mention of payment for them. I'd take the friendly approach and try to get paid work with them for the future. Getting their backs up over pictires you "gave" them will only hamper future opportunities.

Leo.

unreggd

OP, how did u originally send them the pics?

Did u write an email with them or just forward them on?

deRanged

DotOrg wrote: »

You provided content, they pay, no ifs, no buts, they are obliged to pay by using something that is your copyright

He still hasn't said how he sent them in. if he just sent them in without mention of payment or copyright or anything like that then that argument doesn't hold. I'd still like to know how they were sent in in the first place.

Ricky91t

See this is where it gets awkward i allready emailed them prior to this asking if they had any jobs for a north kerry photographer he said he'd like to see samples of my work which i linked him to on flickr.He then asked would i be able to go to a local event which is where photo one came from!

Photo 2 the email said this

Hi,
Iv got photos of the north kerry Lague Semi Final(division 1) Between Ballydonoghue and Castleisland Desmonds held in Duagh,Just wondering do you need any as there was no other photographers there.

Thanks,
Richard

Thats all i said didnt think i needed to type anything else
and plus i was in a rush..


Edit:For the record i'v never done this before this is my first time submitting photos to a paper/advertiser,the only other time was under work experience and i was told just to title the email with the event as the photographer i was working with said he'd let the editor know

corkandproud

Your best bet is to go and meet the picture editor and/or editor and have a chat. No point in pissing them off with an invoice.

A chat will set you on the right track with them and give you the power to make a decision (submit or not submit) based on their position.

Tactical

Hi Ricky,

when you sent the original pics and email did you specify the use conditions of the shots?

You took the shots therefore own the copyright to them. Their useage can be decided by you.

If no agreement was reached or no conditions attached by you, then I feel that the publication should have contacted you first for your permission and explained in what context they were to be used.

Only you can decide what the worth of the shots are and typically there will be particular rates offered by publications (which will typically be quite low for freelance).

I'd send an invoice for the use of the shots and in future specify the conditions under which shots may be published.

If you want to PM me I'd be happy to discuss this further with you.

sheesh

I would definitely ask for some money if nothing else to acknowledge that they used it.