Ever feel like you made the biggest mistake of your life?

BarryCreed

Story goes like this:

Bought a house with my now ex girlfriend last August. Obviously we broke up and have had it up for sale since January. I suppose the timing couldn't have been worse. The worst time in God knows how long to try and sell a place. None of us can afford to buy the other out, so at the moment, we're at the mercy of any potential buyers. It doesn't look like it's going to sell anytime this year or the next 10! So , what to do...

TRY and rent it out. There are no guarantees it will rent. We're still living in it, which isn't ideal. I'm mad to just get the f**k out of here (Limk, Ireland maybe). House is holding me back. But I have to be realistic at the same time. We're in this situation and can't do much for now.

Bought it for 255K near the uni. The way things are going, you'll get a nice new house for that fairly soon if prices drop, so it looks like we're screwed.

Ever feel like you made the biggest mistake of your life?

AARRRGH

That sucks. I'm genuinely sorry to hear of your situation.

Can you afford to move out and pay rent?

Firetrap

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Have you looked into renting out the house? You said it's near the Uni. Now, I know that you're taking an enormous chance in renting out to students but at least with the location of your house, you've got a better chance of renting it out.

SimpleSam06

Drop your asking price as low as you need to and eat the difference. You'll end up owing money to the bank and nothing to show for it, but better to eat the debt of 15 grand apiece (which you can pay off in a couple of years) rather than spend the next twenty years swallowing a loan of a hundred grand apiece. There are probably a lot of people in the same situation as yourselves, the end result of the banks foolish lending policies over the last few years.

Not to worry, it will work out. How fast is up to yourself. It could be worse; you could have a two bed apartment in Cavan thats not worth the price of the paint on the walls.

antoinolachtnai

Sorry to hear that. It seems like a big deal now, and it is, but you'll live through it.

Does your girlfriend still want to live in it? Is there any way she could bring in a flat mate to pay your half of the mortgage.

If it's near a university it'll rent somehow.

It's a matter of opinion whether to hold or sell at the end of the day. I would hold it. But if holding and renting doesn't suit you, it doesn't suit you.

Best of luck, don't give up hope.

antoin.

Caoimhín

You wont like this OP, but if i was in your situation i would be giving serious consideration to cutting my losses and getting my arse to Canada or Australia.

Permanently.

antoinolachtnai

You are suggesting that the OP runs away from his debts and leaves his ex-girlfriend in the lurch? Come on.

Gurgle

BarryCreed wrote: »

Bought it for 255K near the uni. The way things are going, you'll get a nice new house for that fairly soon if prices drop, so it looks like we're screwed.

'The way things are going'?
Nobody actually knows where things are going.

Right now is the worst time in decades to be in a 'have to sell' position. The market is a mess of speculators trying to escape, builders trying to cash in on their stock and estate agents lying like fishwives to try to keep their gravy train rolling.

Have you dropped into your local letting agents & talked to them?

If you can let it for a few years for nearly enough to cover the mortgage repayments, the market should have settled down.

Caoimhín

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are suggesting that the OP runs away from his debts and leaves his ex-girlfriend in the lurch? Come on.

Yes.

Yes i am.

SimpleSam06

caoibhin wrote: »

Yes.

Yes i am.

Well it would certainly have the distinction of being the new "biggest mistake of his life".

You can't just jingle mail the keys to the bank and hit the road any more, you can be tracked by a wide variety of channels and you will pay what you are contractually bound to pay, this isn't the seventies any more.

The alternative is to declare bankruptcy, and thats a horrendous route to go down in Ireland, your earnings can be garnished for years afterwards, among other things.

OP, if you want a fast exit, drop the price and eat the debt. If you can stomach sticking around, however, Gurgle's advice is good.

antoinolachtnai

You could never do the jinglemail thing in Ireland. You can do it in the states, because they have a lot of sans recourse mortgages, i.e., the bank can only take the house and no more.

I assume that caoibhin is just windin' us up.

SimpleSam06

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Well it would certainly have the distinction of being the new "biggest mistake of his life".

You can't just jingle mail the keys to the bank and hit the road any more, you can be tracked by a wide variety of channels and you will pay what you are contractually bound to pay, this isn't the seventies any more.

What channels Im genuinely interested in this, what kind of legitimacy do they have in other jurisdictions. What agreements are in place and between what countries? I would go with Canada or Australia suggestion too if it were not for your post. So Im interested in this.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

The alternative is to declare bankruptcy, and thats a horrendous route to go down in Ireland, your earnings can be garnished for years afterwards, among other things.

Yeah go broke and then leave the country.

Now this is all presuming the OP is ok with upping sticks.
here is some info on bankruptcy

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?t=2119

throwing keys away if one is young and able for moving abroad is an option I myself would consider were I in the position. Life is too short for this crap.

Rotti Express

It's all well and good to say you want to flee the country and not come back. But what about if you've got sick parents that need looking after or a life made here that you don't want to give up? I feel sorry for the OP and wish him well in whatever he decides to do.

He's got two choices really. He can either rent the house out for a few years and hope the rent covers a good chunk of the mortgage. Or he can try to sell the house and cut his losses. I think if I were the OP I'd do the rental thing for a few years til prices come back up. I think prices are going to keep falling for a while yet but eventually they will come back up. The advantage he does have is that the house is in or around a city rather than a shoebox in Letrim.

BendiBus

Don't you need permission from the Canadians or the Australians to go live in their countries? Would they not ask you the reason you wanted to move? And would they want to know if you were in a suitable financial position to move?

Doing a runner from your financial obligations might not improve your chances of getting in.

Or are you suggesting going on a holiday visa and not returning? You'd be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life. Because your debt (plus interest) would be here waiting for you if you were ever caught & deported.

BendiBus

BendiBus wrote: »

Don't you need permission from the Canadians or the Australians to go live in their countries? Would they not ask you the reason you wanted to move? And would they want to know if you were in a suitable financial position to move?

Yeah and when I was filling out some forms re Australia there was no mention about finances. And about sick parents, you can come home you just cant ever work here as your rsi number would be what tracks you.

SimpleSam06

Deleted User wrote: »

What channels Im genuinely interested in this, what kind of legitimacy do they have in other jurisdictions. What agreements are in place and between what countries?

You're missing the point. You don't owe money on a mortgage to a government, you owe it to a bank, a publicly traded corporate entity. Legislative agreements with other countries aren't required. Actually tracking what country someone is currently living in is straightforward, as is the rest of the process. And thats just one group of many; you can be tracked to the ends of the earth by someone you owe money to, if they are sufficiently motivated.

Deleted User wrote: »

Life is too short for this crap.

Boo hoo, maybe he should have thought of that before he signed his name on the dotted line. If you are given the benefits of being an adult, you have to accept the responsibilites as well. We wouldn't be seeing any weeping and gnashing of teeth if the property had doubled in value, now would we? Not to mention his girlfriend's life is probably too short to be made bankrupt by financial delinquency on his part, wouldnt you say?

maninasia

Canada and Australia , what a lack of imagination. There are many countries you could happily disappear into without anyone being able to track you. In fact if they ever tried to come after you you just hire the local goons to deal with them, easy. If anybody thinks this is unethical that is exactly what the banks will do also. Knowing Ireland if it isn't an English speaking country or outside the EU they won't be very efficient in going after you.

Knowing the laxity of Ireland's immigration and customs I don't believe there would be any problem from entering and leaving the country quite regularly. Also you could get a second ID after a few years. There are other things one could do but I won't be promoting illegalities here....

The_Conductor

maninasia wrote: »

Canada and Australia , what a lack of imagination. There are many countries you could happily disappear into without anyone being able to track you. In fact if they ever tried to come after you you just hire the local goons to deal with them, easy. If anybody thinks this is unethical that is exactly what the banks will do also. Knowing Ireland if it isn't an English speaking country or outside the EU they won't be very efficient in going after you.

Knowing the laxity of Ireland's immigration and customs I don't believe there would be any problem from entering and leaving the country quite regularly. Also you could get a second ID after a few years. There are other things one could do but I won't be promoting illegalities here....

While I'm not suggesting your username is implying you have first hand knowledge of what you're suggesting- this thread is to go back ontopic again. Please offer valid, legal suggestions to the OP. Anymore tomfoolery and I'll close the thread.

BarryCreed

Lots of replies here, maybe I'm not the only one in this situation...

Well, the renting option hasn't been explored fully yet, but it is certainly an option. However, I don't think rent would cover the full mortgage, so we would have to pay the difference, which is no big deal, but you don't want to be having to deal with that if you're living abroad. Plus there could be periods where there will be nobody in the house...
I am seriously thinking about going abroad. If i didn't have a place, I probably would be now. So I'm in the last year of the WHV to Australia. I would have until next April to use it (end of April). I'm not 100% sure if I would go yet, as getting a decent job on that Visa is not a guarantee, that's another story for another forum anyways. Plus, I'd probably have to keep up some payments from down under, even if it was renting, and it's a bit far away if things start to go wrong, whereas the UK or continental Europe aren't that far away if it came to it....

People have said to me, well why not just leave? Why not say "ok, we're renting it out in 2 months". Not as simple as that. Ex hasn't had the best of years on the whole, and I wouldn't leave someone in the lurch, as I have a conscience!
The paperwork would allow me to just walk out the door if I wanted though..I won't do that , and it's absolutely out of the question.

So, you would think "well, how long do we wait around for something to happen? It could happen soon, not likely , or it could take years. So I think it's trying to be really strategic about it. I'm trying to think of the job situation/emigrating, at the same time I know the house needs to be sorted.

So yeah it's an absolute headf**k......

But, things could always be worse, I'm not living in South Osettia and I have my health...lol...

BarryCreed

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Boo hoo, maybe he should have thought of that before he signed his name on the dotted line. If you are given the benefits of being an adult, you have to accept the responsibilites as well. We wouldn't be seeing any weeping and gnashing of teeth if the property had doubled in value, now would we? Not to mention his girlfriend's life is probably too short to be made bankrupt by financial delinquency on his part, wouldnt you say?

Yes, maybe we should have thought it out a bit more, but that's life...
and yeah, if it was a year or two ago, there wouldn't be a problem, but it's not last year or 2 years ago is it..

SimpleSam06

BarryCreed wrote: »

Yes, maybe we should have thought it out a bit more, but that's life...
and yeah, if it was a year or two ago, there wouldn't be a problem, but it's not last year or 2 years ago is it..

The post wasn't meant to be an indictment of yourself, apologies if it came across like that. I was responding to the blase attitude being displayed by some as regards the seriousness of major financial debt. You have my sincere sympathies on your situation.

Look at it this way, broadly speaking, even if the property drops ultimately to a value of around €200,000, you're going to spend €500 to €600k over the lifetime of the mortgage. Even assuming renting cuts that down by €200k (and thats a big if), you're still €100k in the hole when all is said and done. It might be better to absorb a debt of €15k or so than to take a lot more of a loss in the long run, especially if you want to move on in a hurry.

BarryCreed

No offence taken SimpleSam06.

Yeah, I shouldn't be feeling sorry or moaning, cos I signed up to it, you don't expect to be breaking up with someone do ya...oh well..

yeah, i agree, may have to accept a loss to some degree. was hoping to break even, and pay the folks back the deposit.

but though people have viewed, nobody has made an offer yet...:(

Duckjob

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

The post wasn't meant to be an indictment of yourself, apologies if it came across like that. I was responding to the blase attitude being displayed by some as regards the seriousness of major financial debt. You have my sincere sympathies on your situation..

+1.

I'm fairly shocked at the lack of financial responsibility displayed by some of the replies in this thread. Seems like another legacy of our wonderful property bubble. Why don't we all go out and "trip over" a few cracks in the pavement while we're at it ? Sure, "they" make millions.

Re the property bubble, our government even now fail to grasp the notion that a short, sharp drop is better for everyone than a long protracted one, and seem hell-bent on prolonging the pain as much as possible. If you go the renting route, you may have a long wait before you have a hope of getting the price you want for it.

OP, I sympathise with your predicament. If you really can't bear to stick around, then I'd agree with the advice to lower the price aggressively until you sell, and just suck up the loss whatever it may be.

SkepticOne

If you decide to sell, try to set an attractive price from the start. Don't follow the market down.

SimpleSam06

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

You're missing the point. You don't owe money on a mortgage to a government, you owe it to a bank, a publicly traded corporate entity. Legislative agreements with other countries aren't required.

Of course law is required. You need the law to back you up when you demand money from someone otherwise its illegal!

If ammicable efforts fail, we’ll propose legal proceedings when
appropriate.

http://www.tcmgroup.com/service_procedure.html

Of course its morally wrong to run from debts, but the banks lending was morally wrong too.
If it was easier to declare bankruptcy like in the US ,yes it would inflate a bubble more, but it would level the playing field from the complete tilt in favour of lenders.

Running from loans is always bad advice but I stated I was "genuinely interested" in it esp the legal aspect of it.
I have studied some law but not financial law hence the interest.

SimpleSam06

Deleted User wrote: »

Running from loans is always bad advice but I stated I was "genuinely interested" in it esp the legal aspect of it.

One method which has been used is to transfer the debt to a holding company in the country the debtor is residing in, and pursue it on that basis. Given that banks have been packaging and reselling debt for some time now, its not that big of a jump for them.

Cosmic Dancer

Hand it over to your local authority under the ras scheme, take the below market but guarenteed rental income for 5-8years and wait for prices to stabilise would be my advise.

silverside

my sympathies.

the least stressful approach would be to tell the estate agents to drop the price as low as it takes to sell it - as others have said you might owe 15/20k each but that is not the end of the world - others have run up that much in credit card debt. Think positive, the market is dropping so if you do buy something in the future you'll save even more.

BarryCreed

It's good to see we have options anyways, it's not the end of the world.
We just haven't explored them properly, or weren't fully aware of the options that are there. It's a right pain in the @ss. it's true what they say, timing is everything...