Tunnels in Kilkenny City

feltoncrikk

Recently I've heard that there is a whole network of catacombs in Kilkenny City, which wouldn't be all that unfitting, considering its history.

I hear they are entered from the crypt in St Mary's Cathedral (that door at the back with the skull and crossbones on it) and many other places too.

There is an interesting trap door in the street level of the Tholsel (town hall) that may lead to them, as well as that tunnel in the Rose Garden of the castle and I'm sure there are many other entrances. Surely St. Canice's Cathedral and St. Kieran's College have entrances too...

Does anyone know anything about them, or even been in them?

Plug

Theres a few in KK castle.

KatCookie

hmm interesting, get on to an archaeology company, like Kilkenny Archhaeology who did work in Rothe House recently and are knowledgeable about KK city, they should know, AFAIK, they didnt do the work between St Marys and that Kierans Street-the one with Dunnes Stores on it.
Actually the River used to come up to those walls at one stage..

Threadhead

There's one that leads directly from Morrisons (hence its general undergroundness) to the Left Bank. Initially the plan was to develop the tunnel and link the two bars but it got nixed at the planning permission stage.

There's also a tunnel (one of the St. Mary's ones) that runs directly from Maggies / Carpe Diem / Playwright to the Metropole.

The most obvious one has been the one that leads from Kilkenny Castle to the Design Centre which was only found in the last 10 years but can currently be viewed clearly.

Apparently, there's a whole network that extends out to the Dunmore Caves and Jenkinstown, which was used as an escape route from the City during emergencies.

There's potential for a seriously cool rain shelter here.

Hmm_Messiah

one entry is in the old graveyard on patricks street, another down at the canal walk, and near stephens barracks

but I understand they are sealed, i kno when i was a kid (god 30 years ago) mates ventured down them but I never did !

I don't even know what they are , I do know one is actually a sewer ( the one near the mills down the canal

djScarey

Another sealed at the Black Abbey.

StudentEmeritus

I recommend that if you want some info on this, and a chance to discuss it with someone who knows a lot on the matter, there is a guy called Peter who is a tour guide in KK Castle and he's well up on these things. Really nice guy, lives for local history. Call in anytime.

Cabaal

I'm doubtful about the extent of these tunnels but I'd say some do certainly exist within Kilkenny, be interested to find out more....if I get the chance might look for that tour guide in Kilkenny Castle

EKRIUQ

Threadhead wrote: »

There's one that leads directly from Morrisons (hence its general undergroundness) to the Left Bank. Initially the plan was to develop the tunnel and link the two bars but it got nixed at the planning permission stage.

As far as I know that was a non starter as the water tables would have flooded any type of tunnel between the 2(But the cost of developing this would of been huge)

granturismo

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

one entry is in the old graveyard on patricks street,...i kno when i was a kid (god 30 years ago)

As kids in the '70s we used to talk about the tunnel from this graveyard to the castle.

feltoncrikk

Thank you everyone. Whereabouts in the old cemetery would I find the entrance? This is all getting very interesting.

granturismo

feltoncrikk wrote: »

Thank you everyone. Whereabouts in the old cemetery ...

The cemetery is up Patrick Street at the Junction with Jacob street, beside the tire place. Now, as to whether there is actually an entrance to an underground passage...

KatCookie

Lets have a Boards beers (minus the beers) and go around Kilkenny looking for a way in
i'll bring a pick, someone else can bring the shovel and a flashlight
it'll be at midnight to fit the mood!
maybe some Nocturnals would be interested in going?? .. cos everyone else will be asleep!

just-wonderin

count me out have you ever seen the movie CATACOMBS

KatCookie

..No?
and i wasnt being serious! .. Unless.. ..... hmm

Firetrap

It's a fascinating thread though. It's all very Enid Blyton-ish. All we need now are some Cornish smugglers

Deliverance XXV

Firetrap wrote: »

It's a fascinating thread though. It's all very Enid Blyton-ish. All we need now are some Cornish smugglers

And 4 snobs and a overfed dog...

This thread is fairly interesting. I'm finding out some great info about Kilkenny I never knew.

ayatollah

sound like a job for the hardy boys??


i've got a clue over here!

KatCookie

Yeah the Hardy boys would beat Enid Blytons dubious repeditive stories any day!!

jiggajt

Rally interesting thread. I think i'll have to dust off my splunking kit!

Purry Cat

An interesting thread indeed, and I'm glad to see someone has trotted out that old chestnut about the tunnel from the Castle to Dunmore Caves.

It's nonsense, of course. There isn't one. There couldn't be. A tunnel all the way from the Castle, under the river and 10 miles (or whatever) out to Dunmore? Emerging through subterranean rock? And dug a couple of hundred years ago? Pleeeeeeeese..!!!

Still, it's nice to see an urban myth like this being handed down to new generations. And there are a few Castle tunnels - one from one wing to the other wing (for the servants so that the Butlers wouldn't have to look at them crossing the yard), another out to the Canal Walk and another down to Rose Inn Street.

Myself, I was always more a Five Find Outers child than a Famous Five child, by the way.

djScarey

Heard a similar but smaller scale "chestnut" about a tunnel between the Black Abbey and caves in Holdensrath quarry. The fairy tale gained slight credence when supplemented with tales of the tunnel being used as an escape route for Franciscans from Cromwell and the like. For the Nore, read Bregagh as the small obstacle in the way. I just might believe a tunnel from the Black Abbey to behind the town walls, a matter of a hundred yards or so.

A_M101

Threadhead wrote: »

The most obvious one has been the one that leads from Kilkenny Castle to the Design Centre which was only found in the last 10 years but can currently be viewed clearly.

Nah, I definetly heard about this one more than ten years ago.

Mick T

feltoncrikk wrote: »

Recently I've heard that there is a whole network of catacombs in Kilkenny City, which wouldn't be all that unfitting, considering its history.

I hear they are entered from the crypt in St Mary's Cathedral (that door at the back with the skull and crossbones on it) and many other places too.

There is an interesting trap door in the street level of the Tholsel (town hall) that may lead to them, as well as that tunnel in the Rose Garden of the castle and I'm sure there are many other entrances. Surely St. Canice's Cathedral and St. Kieran's College have entrances too...

Does anyone know anything about them, or even been in them?

from what i heard there was a tunnel from the castle down to kytlers pub and this used to be somewhat of a brothel, where the upper classes from the castle could come down and have abit of fun without anyone seeing them enter , or take them back which ever worked best i surpose!! fact or fiction not sure?

Raze_them_all

yeah mick from what you've heard.....don't think ill be rolling with you anytime soon

Mick T

Raze_them_all wrote: »

yeah mick from what you've heard.....don't think ill be rolling with you anytime soon

what ya mean by this then ray?

Raze_them_all

ah just some stuff you've been letting slip over the last few weeks mate;)
So has anyone actually seen inside any of these tunnels??

feltoncrikk

Yeah, I really want to know if anyone has ever been in them. That's the important thing, speculation is all well and good but without actual evidence the whole idea's pretty redundant. Pictures, anyone?

KatCookie

Would alot of these tunnels not have collapsed by now?
there would be still evidence of then, (the colour of the soil is different, remains of timber supports perhaps, finds, pieces of metal, there may be a stone slab or something that would mark the exit of a tunnel if it was used as a means for escape)

feltoncrikk

KatCookie wrote: »

Would alot of these tunnels not have collapsed by now?
there would be still evidence of then, (the colour of the soil is different, remains of timber supports perhaps, finds, pieces of metal, there may be a stone slab or something that would mark the exit of a tunnel if it was used as a means for escape)

The system would have been designed during Strongbow's town plans in Kilkenny and probably used barrel vaulting rendering them virtually incollapsible. However you probably are right- they may have been destroyed by Cromwell, although he may also have kept them and used them himself, he did use St Canice's Cathedral as a stable and base and could have used the tunnels from there as access but then again they may have been blocked up by hiding monks. There's only one way to find out...

Firetrap

Yes. Time to take up KatCookie's suggestion of having a Boards Beers in search of tunnels

KatCookie

yes, but we'd better minus the beers becasue if we were all drunk then people wouldnt believe us...
lets go search at midnight, it would create good atmosphere!

Raze_them_all

but without the beers...we're just sober fools looking for holes...with beers we become adventurers

jiggajt

Did you guys ever get around to it? Find anything?

KatCookie

Nah, we're all talk and no walk. or in this case no dig.. sorry, bad pun..

Raze_them_all

WE REALLY SHOULD DO THIS....only realised caps was on

jiggajt

It would be good to organise something for around halloween. It would make it extra spooky!

catbear

just read this thread.
before the last upgrade of paths on high street there were plenty of interconnecting cellars along the street. same on parliament street. off hand i remember hopping down under the town hall via a trap door in the left hand corner, (behind where they usually put the crib at xmas)
basically i don't see any reason why they should should not still exist.
i've also got a peek at the vaults under st.Marys behind the tholsel.
they're nothing special, probably storage.
as far as i know most the area around St.Marys is built on vaulted ground so the real topography would have a much lower hill and probably a gentler slope down onto kieran st.
as for the tunnals from the old st.patrick graveyard, there are is mention of them in the military diaries of the commonwealth army however there is a tunnel mentioned from the black abbey to canices cathedral (that's right, under the bragagh (how is it spelt again))
i don't have a link but i can look up the book if anyone is interested.
i have potholed (no smutty remarks please) down to the cystal cavern in Dunmore cave. i too doubt that there could be a fissure long enough to reach KK.
afaik the recent excavations on the parade and canal square have not revealed anything new however the diagio site could be interesting. possibly a few boat slips but no storage vaults, too close to the waterline.

Firetrap

Interesting...

KatCookie

Firetrap wrote: »

Interesting...

Interesting..
i think we need dates..
can anyone tell me dates of cromwell's time.. im thinking 1700-1800's.. yes/no?
when was st marys built? i know Canices Cathedral is ~800 yrs old because i took part in the celebrations..

Loveless

I noticed when they pulled up the car park down from the Castle there's a hole covered over, marked 'Deep Hole', on the way down to the traffic lights

Cabaal

KatCookie wrote: »

Interesting..
i think we need dates..
can anyone tell me dates of cromwell's time.. im thinking 1700-1800's.. yes/no?
..

Cromwell parliamentary invasion of Ireland was about 1649–50

KatCookie

Ah!. .. i guess i dont know my history too well then..

i think ive said this before, but the excavations done on Kieran Street show that the river used to come right up to that wall.. but i don't know WHEN this was (and unfortunately, i havnt kept in touch with the person that would know)
-just thinking off the top of my head, havent thought these thoughts through -if there was water where Kieran St is now, then i'd guess that there wouldnt be any catacombs there OR any underground tunnels would have been built after.. yes?

catbear

i'd doubt there are any catacomb complexes under kilkenny, plenty of crypts under the various churches etc.. but Kilkenny was never stuck for places to bury people.
the only exceptions were times of plague, once a person died they were put into a hole asap, even if it meant three steps from the front door.
over the years bodies have been found at a low depth under high street suggesting quick burial; not to be confused with recent finds in marys lane which was an established burial site.
a few years ago a local archaeologist found the remains of a young boy behind a slate slab in a wall of a high street shop, i think it was from the 1600s, around the last recorded outbreak. i think it was in the papers.
river courses change but when did the river last reach Kieran st?
during the flood relief works a wattle screen was found in sediment under johns bridge, it was at least over two thousand years ago from carbon dating.
the screen could have been part of a fish trap or part of a ritual. who knows?
if this kind of thing gives you a buzz, then no harm in having a look at the back copies of the Kilkenny archealogy journal in the reading room of the library on johns quay.
just check the index of each copy to find stories that interest you.
happy hunting.

p.s.
if you are really into catacombs, Rome is where it is at, more than you can shake a stick at.
there's one crypt on the via veneto with frescos made of human bones.

biffontour

Hi guys,

I know this is a very old thread but after St Mary’s was tranformed was there any tunnels found or even any update on them in the last 10 years

pat k

Deliverance XXV wrote: »

And 4 snobs and a overfed dog...

This thread is fairly interesting. I'm finding out some great info about Kilkenny I never knew.

Ha Ha 4 snobs and an overfed Dog Love it!! :-) good memories of dem lot though (famous 5)