is anyone buying overseas property anymore

irish_bob

i own an appartment in budapest and have been trying to sell it for over a year now , not one single offer did i get and i have an agent employed , i honestly believe that you litterally cannot give away property right now

btw , i know i was foolish to have bought it in the 1st place so no need to say so

thanks

Cantoris

Where is it? And what yield is it achieving? You are either selling to an owner occupier or an investor. if the latter, then your yield is too low.

pocketdooz

Do you need to sell - i.e. - do you need the money now ?

What year did you buy in ? If you were trying to sell in 2007, I'm assuming you bought it at least in 2002. Property should be held for MINIMUM 5 years to clear a profit (after purchasing transaction costs, fees, taxes etc.etc. and then the same on the sell side).

If I were you, and I didn't need the money I would hold the property for as long as possible.

But . . . to answer your question. No.

Nobody (talking about small Irish residential investors, not commercial developers) is really buying eastern european property at the moment, for obvious reasons.

I think the best thing you could do now is to hold on to it - think long-term (10 - 15 years).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

irish_bob

pocketdooz wrote: »

Do you need to sell - i.e. - do you need the money now ?

What year did you buy in ? If you were trying to sell in 2007, I'm assuming you bought it at least in 2002. Property should be held for MINIMUM 5 years to clear a profit (after purchasing transaction costs, fees, taxes etc.etc. and then the same on the sell side).

If I were you, and I didn't need the money I would hold the property for as long as possible.

But . . . to answer your question. No.

Nobody (talking about small Irish residential investors, not commercial developers) is really buying eastern european property at the moment, for obvious reasons.

I think the best thing you could do now is to hold on to it - think long-term (10 - 15 years).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

my bank is not shouting at me for the money but my monthly rent is 900 euro a month of which 40% is taxable which means the rent doesnt come near to paying the mortgage , i bought it in 2005 and refurbished it , i was ripped off , of course by what i paid for it , an irish person sold it to me naturally , i dont need the money as such but i could use the money somewhere more profitable , as regards needing to hold onto a property for 5 yrs in order to make a profit , thats not true in all cases , has anyone in ireland bought a house from 1995 untill 2006 , even they has kept it a week , they would have not lost money where as if you bought a house at the begining of 2007 , you may not have any profit even you sell it in 2014

the hungarian economy is in the tank and always has been , its property boom like all eastern european property booms was based on a false pretense , it was driven soley by outside influences , i.e , jim and maggie reilly wanting an appartment out foreign because there own house was destined to keep appreciating for ever and ever , or so they thought

now there is nothing to keep eastern european property prices afloat and they may never be
there are countries all over the world that have never had an economic boom , most countries in fact just survive , most dont emulate our tiger of the past 12 yrs

Cantoris

irish_bob wrote: »

the hungarian economy is in the tank and always has been , its property boom like all eastern european property booms was based on a false pretense , it was driven soley by outside influences , i.e , jim and maggie reilly wanting an appartment out foreign because there own house was destined to keep appreciating for ever and ever , or so they thought

now there is nothing to keep eastern european property prices afloat and they may never be
there are countries all over the world that have never had an economic boom , most countries in fact just survive , most dont emulate our tiger of the past 12 yrs

I'd be careful that you don't throw all CEE countries into the same boat. Hungary suffers from a penal tax system and a government that does not want to progress. It was muted as the next Czech Republic a few years ago but they can't even get tourists to go there. Madness. The Czech Republic is completely different. It's government has worked hard to attract FDI and it's economy is proospering as a result. There is still huge demand in the country for an improved standard of living, away from the panelaks and the build your own home. The latter in particular is very poor there where a developer sells you a plot and you choose what house you want built. Only problem is that every house in the estate looks different and they never finish off the pavements, common areas. So there are plenty of opportunities in CEE, although they are getting more scarce as prices hit the peak.

In your situation, I'd have presumed that if the property was in a company that you could offset the interest payments against rental income and avoid the tax. At €900 a month (assuming net after service charge etc), a month for the management company and €500 for company secretarial etc that is €9,400 a year. Even off a 7% yield, that would value the property at circa €140k. Now I have no idea what you paid for it but this is the starting point for what it might be worth. A stupid investor might pay more but a owner occupier would def pay more. What District of Budapest is it in?

irish_bob

Cantoris wrote: »

I'd be careful that you don't throw all CEE countries into the same boat. Hungary suffers from a penal tax system and a government that does not want to progress. It was muted as the next Czech Republic a few years ago but they can't even get tourists to go there. Madness. The Czech Republic is completely different. It's government has worked hard to attract FDI and it's economy is proospering as a result. There is still huge demand in the country for an improved standard of living, away from the panelaks and the build your own home. The latter in particular is very poor there where a developer sells you a plot and you choose what house you want built. Only problem is that every house in the estate looks different and they never finish off the pavements, common areas. So there are plenty of opportunities in CEE, although they are getting more scarce as prices hit the peak.

In your situation, I'd have presumed that if the property was in a company that you could offset the interest payments against rental income and avoid the tax. At €900 a month (assuming net after service charge etc), a month for the management company and €500 for company secretarial etc that is €9,400 a year. Even off a 7% yield, that would value the property at circa €140k. Now I have no idea what you paid for it but this is the starting point for what it might be worth. A stupid investor might pay more but a owner occupier would def pay more. What District of Budapest is it in?

i thank you for your interesting post , i borrowed the money to buy the property in ireland so the interest on the mortgage is not tax deductable as you cannot write of interest again tax on secondry income , only on your primary income ( your main form of business )
the appartment is in a place called vorosmarty , its in district 7 and while the neighbourhood is not in good shape , my apt is top class , the area is well served by public transport and is only a 5 min walk from a metro stop
i had it valued at 130 k about 4 mths ago and through an irish agent ( not the irish agent i bought it off ) and there associate in hungary who both seemed quite straight , they did not get one single offer on the place

you stated in your post that hungary doesnt even want tourists , not surprising , hungarians are without a doubt thee most unfriendly people i have ever met , i hate hungary , dont spend a second longer there than i have to

Cantoris

District 7 wouldn't be fashionable so you are prob aiming for the local market. Districts 3,8,9,11 and 13 are the best. I meant to ask how big the apartment is. Locals are paying around HUF 350,000 per sqm in District 13 and HUF 280,000 in District 10. That's about €1,400 and €1,100 per sqm. Based on this you would want a fairly big pad to get the €140k valuation. I'm surprised the rent is so much so it must be a nice pad. Who is renting it, local or expat? Is it standing you a good procit at that valuation? If so, then lower the price and get out. Prices are not going any further in poorer locations. If you are only going to get significantly less than this, work out your NPV of holding it for the next five years and decide if that is worth the hassle. If not, then sell now for wahtecer you can get.

irish_bob

Cantoris wrote: »

District 7 wouldn't be fashionable so you are prob aiming for the local market. Districts 3,8,9,11 and 13 are the best. I meant to ask how big the apartment is. Locals are paying around HUF 350,000 per sqm in District 13 and HUF 280,000 in District 10. That's about €1,400 and €1,100 per sqm. Based on this you would want a fairly big pad to get the €140k valuation. I'm surprised the rent is so much so it must be a nice pad. Who is renting it, local or expat? Is it standing you a good procit at that valuation? If so, then lower the price and get out. Prices are not going any further in poorer locations. If you are only going to get significantly less than this, work out your NPV of holding it for the next five years and decide if that is worth the hassle. If not, then sell now for wahtecer you can get.

the most exclusive districts are district 5 , followed by 6 , 7 is next and not sure after that , its well known that 5 is the most exclusive

my appt is 116 sq m and is a 3 bed , i have had only american students for the past 2 yrs as tennants and got paid entirely in cash which is almost the norm over there , if i dont sell and continue to rent i will have to start paying tax , not because of the hungarian revenue commisioners , they dont enforce that at all but the irish revenue commisioners

Diarmuid

irish_bob wrote: »

i was ripped off , of course by what i paid for it , an irish person sold it to me naturally

Do you mean the person selling you the apartment committed fraud or that you just paid too much?

Cantoris

irish_bob wrote: »

the most exclusive districts are district 5 , followed by 6 , 7 is next and not sure after that , its well known that 5 is the most exclusive

Point noted. What I meant to say is that 5,6,and 7 are inner districts and 7 would be considered the most unfashionable of the three. If you could afford to get a decent pad in D5 then we wouldn't be having a discussion here. The other districts, in my view, are outside this inner ring and are good investment spots. The rates they are getting here are still HUF 250k to HUF 350k. I know a few developments in those locations that are still flying out the door at those prices. Which suggests there is something in the specific location of your apartment. Each district has it's good and bad sides, a bit like Dublin. But 130-140k for a 116 sqm apartment puts it at over a grand a sqm. You should be able to sell at that price range. At what level do you clear all your purchase costs? Also, do you own it personally or is it in a company? If the company had the loan, guaranteed by you, surely it is deductible in the company. You would have an irish tax problem when you get a dividend or dispose of the company.

irish_bob

Diarmuid wrote: »

Do you mean the person selling you the apartment committed fraud or that you just paid too much?

im sorry judge , i dont understand the question

Blackjack

irish_bob wrote: »

im sorry judge , i dont understand the question

You said you were ripped off. Were you scammed out of your money, or did you just simply pay over the odds.

irish_bob

Blackjack wrote: »

You said you were ripped off. Were you scammed out of your money, or did you just simply pay over the odds.

now your questioning me , which of you is the judge

Blackjack

irish_bob wrote: »

now your questioning me , which of you is the judge

Neither, I just thought I'd try to help you understand his original question.

irish_bob

Blackjack wrote: »

Neither, I just thought I'd try to help you understand his original question.

it was an obnoxious and altogether irrelavant question to begin with

to answer it , i was charged way over the actual market value of the property , just like the vast majority of irish people who paid way more for eastern european property than it was actually worth

no one commited fraud

i was ripped off by the sellers just like you get ripped off when you buy a burger at oxygen

Blackjack

irish_bob wrote: »

it was an obnoxious and altogether irrelavant question to begin with

so you did understand it all along?.

irish_bob wrote: »

to answer it , i was charged way over the actual market value of the property , just like the vast majority of irish people who paid way more for eastern european property than it was actually worth

Caveat emptor.

irish_bob wrote: »

no one commited fraud

i was ripped off by the sellers just like you get ripped off when you buy a burger at oxygen

Difference is that when you buy a Burger at Oxygen, you pay a price for being a part of a captive audience, and having a need to eat.

I sympatise with you, as you've probably suffered quite a loss, which is never nice for anyone. You were a vicitm of the hype that went with Property here and people thought would translate elsewhere also.

Diarmuid

irish_bob wrote: »

i was ripped off by the sellers just like you get ripped off when you buy a burger at oxygen

In neither scenario are you being ripped off. Being ripped off is when I sell you a burger but give you a burger bun. It's a very important distinction.

The reason I asked is that this is an investment board here. Lots of people are buyers and sellers. And of those sellers I am sure many have sold assets (be it houses, cars, stocks etc) which have subsequently fallen in price. You would probably get a more sympathetic response if you don't try to paint those people as some sort of scammers.

I am sorry about your situation and I hope you can rescue your investment.

irish_bob

Diarmuid wrote: »

In neither scenario are you being ripped off. Being ripped off is when I sell you a burger but give you a burger bun. It's a very important distinction.

The reason I asked is that this is an investment board here. Lots of people are buyers and sellers. And of those sellers I am sure many have sold assets (be it houses, cars, stocks etc) which have subsequently fallen in price. You would probably get a more sympathetic response if you don't try to paint those people as some sort of scammers.

I am sorry about your situation and I hope you can rescue your investment.

are you saying that people in the business of selling overseas property dont take advantage of people
btw , i dont deserve any sympathy for buying in a country whos property market was based soley on a spin off from a property market in a few other countries
i was both greedy and foolish , i think we are getting off point here , from some of the posts , you would think this was the legal forum

Rich4

Its certainly difficult to sell anything overseas at the moment. I have a property in Spain and property in Turkey. I dont need to sell them as I bought them with cash and so have no mortgage repayments, plus I get some rental in the summer months, but I still wouldnt mind shifting one of them if I could. Ive used different websites in the past, Daft in Ireland and a UK site too but didnt get much of a responce. I did sell a 1 bed apt in the south of France about a year ago through an Irish website called MyOverseasproperty.ie. It seems to specialise in overseas property. Worth a try but like you said I dont think much is moving at the moment. If you can find a good local agent, its also a good way to go, someone who is reputable. Even worth offering them a few extra quid in commission if they sell it. Best of luck with it.

irish_bob

Rich4 wrote: »

Its certainly difficult to sell anything overseas at the moment. I have a property in Spain and property in Turkey. I dont need to sell them as I bought them with cash and so have no mortgage repayments, plus I get some rental in the summer months, but I still wouldnt mind shifting one of them if I could. Ive used different websites in the past, Daft in Ireland and a UK site too but didnt get much of a responce. I did sell a 1 bed apt in the south of France about a year ago through an Irish website called MyOverseasproperty.ie. It seems to specialise in overseas property. Worth a try but like you said I dont think much is moving at the moment. If you can find a good local agent, its also a good way to go, someone who is reputable. Even worth offering them a few extra quid in commission if they sell it. Best of luck with it.

thanks

blahboy

Hi,

If the apartment is costing you money you need to cut your losses and flog it at whatever price the market will take. It is unfortunate that you feel you were done on the price but sometimes these lessons are expensive.
To sum up this thing is bleeding you white. Cut your losses, move on and try putting your money into something that might make you a return.

Cheers

blahboy

pocketdooz

blahboy wrote: »

Hi,

If the apartment is costing you money you need to cut your losses and flog it at whatever price the market will take. It is unfortunate that you feel you were done on the price but sometimes these lessons are expensive.
To sum up this thing is bleeding you white. Cut your losses, move on and try putting your money into something that might make you a return.

Cheers

blahboy

Do you normally charge for your advice ?

blahboy

No - accountancy is not my trade at all - why do you ask?

pocketdooz

blahboy wrote: »

cut your losses and flog it at whatever price the market will take.

blahboy wrote: »

To sum up this thing is bleeding you white. Cut your losses, move on



blah

Just thought it was great advice - well thought out etc.






.

neaideabh

Heard on the radio the other day that India is the place to invest now! They are saying you can expect a 700% return over the next ten years! There is some irish company specialising in Indian property as you would expect

pocketdooz

neaideabh wrote: »

Heard on the radio the other day that India is the place to invest now! They are saying you can expect a 700% return over the next ten years! There is some irish company specialising in Indian property as you would expect

yawn

irish_bob

blahboy wrote: »

Hi,

If the apartment is costing you money you need to cut your losses and flog it at whatever price the market will take. It is unfortunate that you feel you were done on the price but sometimes these lessons are expensive.
To sum up this thing is bleeding you white. Cut your losses, move on and try putting your money into something that might make you a return.

Cheers

blahboy

advertised it in the indo , the irish times and hired an agent in budapest to try and sell it , not one enquiree through any of the three

as i said already , you cant give away property in budapest

blahboy

irish_bob wrote: »

advertised it in the indo , the irish times and hired an agent in budapest to try and sell it , not one enquiree through any of the three

as i said already , you cant give away property in budapest

Hi Bob

Two things:

Well if you current agent is not shifting the goods find someone who can - who is best estate agent in that area in Budapest? - get them. Are you telling me that not one property has being sold in the whole Budapest?

If the property is not shifting you need to keep droping the price to a level where the property moves. If that means a drop of 25% or 50%, 75% or 95% on your current asking price so be it.

If you forgive me a mixed metaphor - better to lose .your shirt now rather then get the bones ripped from your back in a years time

irish_bob

irish_bob wrote: »

i own an appartment in budapest and have been trying to sell it for over a year now , not one single offer did i get and i have an agent employed , i honestly believe that you litterally cannot give away property right now

btw , i know i was foolish to have bought it in the 1st place so no need to say so

thanks

Propert is selling abroad, not only in Bulgaria, but from my dealings, Spain, Egypt, Morocco among others....

Egypt and Morocco are the best. Nice capital appreciation. Egypt better in the sense it's VAT free.
Is Bulgaria not at to going up in value for you?

gordon_gekko

Jay D wrote: »

Propert is selling abroad, not only in Bulgaria, but from my dealings, Spain, Egypt, Morocco among others....

Egypt and Morocco are the best. Nice capital appreciation. Egypt better in the sense it's VAT free.
Is Bulgaria not at to going up in value for you?

you sound like a property pimp , property is dead almost everywhere right now

At the moment, if you are interested, there are places available in Egypt where you get a capital appreciation of 20-30% for the first three years, with a rental guarantee system as well of 7% per annum. Spain would be at the other end of the scale where the prices are quite high and the capital appreciation factor would be questionable from an investment point of view.

If anyone is thinking of such a move, feel free to send me a pm.

TheBigLebowski

Arse. People were saying the same crap about Bulgaria, Budapest etc a couple of years ago and that fell on it's arse big time. Mugs game. Good luck t'ya...

gordon_gekko

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Arse. People were saying the same crap about Bulgaria, Budapest etc a couple of years ago and that fell on it's arse big time. Mugs game. Good luck t'ya...

the guy jd is a pimp , ignore him

yeah sure we all REALLY know it's all doom and gloom in either order

:pac:

FortalezaOwner

bought property in brazil a few years ago and good investment thinking of buying more as future still looks good over there, anyone elses buy property in brazil