how many certified sickdays

fret_wimp

a friend of mine has had about 6 certified sick days and 1 uncertified one over the last 13 months. the company he works for is now investigating why he has had so many sick days, and he feels there is a slight chance he could lose his job. its so bad that this week he was really really sick with food poisoning, but afraid to miss work so went to work in a terrible state.

if days are certified, what exactly can a company do?? are they allowed to scare a person so much that they will go to work even when very ill??

what are the actual rules here?

BC

The short answer is there are no rules.
There is no entitlement to sick leave in Ireland so it really depends on whats in your friends contract. Some companies pay for certified & uncertified sick leave, some do not. Some have a maximum number of days that you can be sick (certified or uncertified) in any 12 month period. It really depends on the contract. The company can decide to let someone go if they think they have been out on sick leave too much, again, check the contract.

How Strange

Sick leave entitlements, certified and uncertified, are determined by individual companies. Certified sick leave means your friend had doctors certs for his absences so I don't understand why the company is investigating it unless your friend has done something to make them suspicious.

Xcellor

fret_wimp wrote: »

a friend of mine has had about 6 certified sick days and 1 uncertified one over the last 13 months. the company he works for is now investigating why he has had so many sick days, and he feels there is a slight chance he could lose his job. its so bad that this week he was really really sick with food poisoning, but afraid to miss work so went to work in a terrible state.

if days are certified, what exactly can a company do?? are they allowed to scare a person so much that they will go to work even when very ill??

what are the actual rules here?

Fairly ****ty thing for a company to do imo... It all depends on the company though. Some would feel this is excessive. I reckon its quite acceptable. If you get a dose of the flu (real flu) it can be over a week before you are fit to work.

I'd be jumping ship if I was working there... that's no way to treat employees. Completely overboard. Maybe they are just looking for reasons to fire people so they don't have to pay redundancies... With things being as they are it could be that reason!

Nody

How Strange wrote: »

Sick leave entitlements, certified and uncertified, are determined by individual companies. Certified sick leave means your friend had doctors certs for his absences so I don't understand why the company is investigating it unless your friend has done something to make them suspicious.

Because a doc cert is only 40 euro away? A doc cert in Ireland is about as reliable as a handwritten note from your mother to a company.

fret_wimp

my friend has done nothing to spark an investigation from HR. he is a terriffic worker, and his manager has testified to HR on his behalf. HR in this company rule the roost though. Regardless of what managers say, HR have been known to let folks for anything they dont relaly like.

One guy was late twice and was let go, after a year of servitude to the company. i agree that he should not be late, even once, but still, a good worker, with a good record over the course of a year, was let go because HR looked at a spread sheet and saw two late days. no consideration to his work record or managers statement saying he was a good employee. Big brother is watching!

I would hate to work in a company ruled by HR

Mr. Presentable

Xcellor wrote: »

Fairly ****ty thing for a company to do imo... It all depends on the company though. Some would feel this is excessive. I reckon its quite acceptable. If you get a dose of the flu (real flu) it can be over a week before you are fit to work.

I'd be jumping ship if I was working there... that's no way to treat employees. Completely overboard. Maybe they are just looking for reasons to fire people so they don't have to pay redundancies... With things being as they are it could be that reason!

I don't see what's overboard - they're entitled to know why their employees are not fully productive while they are paying them. Having said that, seven days in 13 months is not a horrific amount of absenteeism so, as you say, they may be using it for assessment purposes with a view to rationalisation.

On a side note, how many sick days do self employed people take?

fret_wimp

what point are you trying to make about selfemployed people? i have no idea, never have been self employed. im sure they dont work if they are genuinely sick though.

my point is, people get sick. everyone gets sick. occasionally someone may get unlucky and be sick for a few days .

do companies not realize that people get sick and are not able to work?
do the people who create these rules not get sick occasionally?

are you saying you never get sick, or you dont know of anyone who has been sick a little more than usual over a period of time??

Mr. Presentable

fret_wimp wrote: »

what point are you trying to make about selfemployed people? i have no idea, never have been self employed. im sure they dont work if they are genuinely sick though.

I think we'll find they take fewer sick days

fret_wimp wrote: »

my point is, people get sick. everyone gets sick. occasionally someone may get unlucky and be sick for a few days .

Absolutely!

fret_wimp wrote: »

do companies not realize that people get sick and are not able to work?

Yes they do, of course

fret_wimp wrote: »

do the people who create these rules not get sick occasionally?

I bet they do!

fret_wimp wrote: »

are you saying you never get sick, or you dont know of anyone who has been sick a little more than usual over a period of time??

No. I do get sick occasionally, just not (so far, touch wood) enough to keep me from work.

Look, I am not having a pop at your friend, just trying to highlight the employers point of view. The employer is the one who pays the wages, and has shareholders to answer to, to show he is getting the best value for their money.

kayos

If someone is sick and is certified to say that they are unfit for work employers should just accept that and if they dont like it well then stop paying sick days (other than what they can claim back from PRSI). If an employer is thinking you are just getting a friendly doctor to sign you off work and it happened too often. Then they should you to a doctor of their choice and see what he says.

Some poor sod comes into work with the flu as they are worried about getting in trouble over sick leave even with a cert. So they come into an office and are surrounded by fellow employees and the flu spreads..... Now the employer has not just one employee sick but a number of employees catch the same flu. How does that make sense?

Again talking about certified sick days...pulling a sickie is something totally different.

AARRRGH

From - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/sick_leave

In some circumstances, where an employee has consistently been absent from work (or if through illness is no longer capable of continuing work), employment may be terminated. Employees are protected in certain circumstances in this instance through the unfair dismissals legislation.

As your friend has been employed for over 12 months, she is covered by unfair dismissal law.

I'd say HR are trying to prove a point more than anything else.

Xcellor

Companies who go overboard on trying to reduce sick time will end up causing staff to come into work when they are not fit to work, spread disease to others, so many then are less productive than they were.

When I used to manage people I hated to see the martyrish attitude of some that would bust their holes to come in, sneeze all over the place and generally look miserable and complain all day. Feck off home. Anyone under me that came in sick I told to go home.

The company mentioned by the OP seems very old fashioned/authoritarian type.

Noopti

One guy was late twice and was let go, after a year of servitude to the company

Do companies in Ireland not have to follow a set of procedures when firing someone? That is, do they not have to follow a system of verbal warning --> 1st written warning --> final written warning --> dismissal.

I'm pretty sure that if a company cannot prove they follow the above procedure then they can be done for unfair dismissal, unless of course the person is guilty of serious misconduct.

I'm not sure if the above applies to being sick too often though. However I am sure there is some recourse open here to the employee to ensure they are treated fairly. I doubt that the employers can simply say "your fired" after the person has been sick for a number of days. They would have to prove that the employee situation was investigated fairly surely.

Like what has been said above, a company like the one highlighted will only shoot themselves in the foot. Employees will come into work when they are clearly ill, with infectious conditions and thus reduce the workforce even more.
What is annoying also though is when people come into work and they are obviously incapable of being in anyway productive, and they expect to be "left alone" for the day. Bullsh1t! If you come into work, you should be fit for work. Otherwise, go home.