Is the over analysis of games ruining the Gaelic Games?

Tazdedub

Thought I would throw this out there.

Is the over analysis of every little incident killing Gaelic games?

My own opinion it is, the way things are going its going to be like watching soccer in next couple of years with players not being able to touch each other. To me the games of gaelic football and hurling are hard contact skillful sports where a mistimed shoulder or a mistimed swing of a hurl is going to happen. The Sunday Game has turned into Liveline with fans with their blinkers on giving out about this and that.

I think the reason why attendances are down is because of this and because now the referees have to blow for every single little thing that happens and that ruins the game.

well that just me two cents worth.

DeepBlue

I don't know about whether it's ruining the game or not but it's certainly ruining the Sunday Game.
The SG should really make some sort of editorial decision that ruling on such incidents is not in their remit.

It's a pity that large chunks of time on the show is devoted to analysis of fouls when it could be better used showcasing examples of skill on the field.
It seems some times that the section of the show discussing some foul lasts as long as the section showing the highlights of the game*.

*Slight exaggeration maybe :pac:

premierstone

Tazdedub wrote: »

I think the reason why attendances are down is because of this and because now the referees have to blow for every single little thing that happens and that ruins the game.

Referees are in a no win situation Taz, just look at Wadding on Sunday he tried to let the game develop and flow by letting stuff go and now he's been slated on different threads here as been lazy and imcompetent, seems like its a no win situation to me.

Tazdedub

premierstone wrote: »

Referees are in a no win situation Taz, just look at Wadding on Sunday he tried to let the game develop and flow by letting stuff go and now he's been slated on different threads here as been lazy and imcompetent, seems like its a no win situation to me.

PremierStone, I agree that refs are in a no win situation and I think the reason for that is because of the likes of the Sunday Game and fans wanting everything analysed. I think people have to accept that there is going to be physical contact in the game as it is part a parcel of the game.

I thought Sundays hurling match was fantastic because the ref let the game flow, yes there was jersey pulling and jostling off the ball but for me that is part and parcel of the game and its that and the skills of the game that set them apart from the soccer and some of the other sports we see. I loved seeing the midfeilders shouldering each other at the start of the match because for that showed we have two teams here that are going all out to win. But unfortunately I feel certain parts of the media and the fans want to cut that out and cut out the physical contact of the games and for me all we will be left with is an irish version of the stuff we see on sky sports.

tonc76

premierstone wrote: »

Referees are in a no win situation Taz, just look at Wadding on Sunday he tried to let the game develop and flow by letting stuff go and now he's been slated on different threads here as been lazy and imcompetent, seems like its a no win situation to me.

I'm with you here - I defended Wadding on another thread where he was slated for x,y & z. Referees are now being compared to their counterparts in the EPL (who are professional may I add). From week to week there are complaints of too much intrusion by referees and then not enough.

What is an inter-county referee, who afterall has a day job to do aswell, supposed to do under that amount of scrutiny?

Remember that these fellas have given years of service to the game before they reach the required level to call the shots in high profile games.

Tazdedub

tonc76 wrote: »

I'm with you here - I defended Wadding on another thread where he was slated for x,y & z. Referees are now being compared to their counterparts in the EPL (who are professional may I add). From week to week there are complaints of too much intrusion by referees and then not enough.

What is an inter-county referee, who afterall has a day job to do aswell, supposed to do under that amount of scrutiny?

Remember that these fellas have given years of service to the game before they reach the required level to call the shots in high profile games.

Tonc, the main problem I see and I have seen it on this board where people are saying this team and that team are too physical. To me gaelic games are physical sports where you need strenght, speed and skill and this is one of the reasons why I love these games. I dont see how a team can be too physical, if a team is bigger and stronger than another team then the strongest team is entitled to try use that to their advantage but dont punish them for it because little johnny got shouldered of the ball. Its the same for a team who use speed to get their advantage.

I just feel at the way things are going we are just going to end up with watered down games such as the EPL where a player will get a free for being looked at the wrong way.

tonc76

Tazdedub wrote: »

Tonc, the main problem I see and I have seen it on this board where people are saying this team and that team are too physical. To me gaelic games are physical sports where you need strenght, speed and skill and this is one of the reasons why I love these games. I dont see how a team can be too physical, if a team is bigger and stronger than another team then the strongest team is entitled to try use that to their advantage but dont punish them for it because little johnny got shouldered of the ball. Its the same for a team who use speed to get their advantage.

I just feel at the way things are going we are just going to end up with watered down games such as the EPL where a player will get a free for being looked at the wrong way.

For people to say that the game is too physical is rediculous. THIS IS A PHYSICAL GAME - shoulder to shoulder tackles are allowed - the hurl is not just used to hit the ball either. I'm not advocating dirty strokes or anything of the sort but if the physicality was taken out of the game the game would suffer hugely. At the top level players train for up to 10 months a year. Kilkenny showed on Sunday what the physical element of the game is all about and in that set the benchmark for all other teams - both hurling and football. I witnessed corner forwards give as hard hits as I ever seen. The commentator spoke about training KK sessions where the whistle is rarely blown - this toughens up players and forces them to seek a pass when none is available.

As said in a another thread if you don't like the physical element to GAA turn on the TV and watch the dressage or syncronised swimming at the Olympics:pac:

thirdmantackle

to be honest i have not seen a proper throw in to start a match since 1998

or a sideline throw in, or a throw in to restart the match for that matter.

players are encroaching on the centre of the field before they are meant to. players no longer try and swing on the ball properly but try to flick it or block the opponent

also crowding around the ref when he goes to throw the ball in

Yavvy

thirdmantackle wrote: »

to be honest i have not seen a proper throw in to start a match since 1998

or a sideline throw in, or a throw in to restart the match for that matter.

players are encroaching on the centre of the field before they are meant to. players no longer try and swing on the ball properly but try to flick it or block the opponent

also crowding around the ref when he goes to throw the ball in

+

whats that got to do with the price of butter.. or this thread ?

ack, the SG and some media do over analyse fouls and controversy but thats where the ratings are i suppose..its not in RTE's interest do discuss less talked about issues. not sure what can be done to be honest

2Scoops

The rules have not changed appreciably on physical contact in recent history. Now if everyone would just play by the rules, there wouldn't be a problem.

aidan24326

Tazdedub wrote: »

PremierStone, I agree that refs are in a no win situation and I think the reason for that is because of the likes of the Sunday Game and fans wanting everything analysed. I think people have to accept that there is going to be physical contact in the game as it is part a parcel of the game.

2Scoops wrote: »

The rules have not changed appreciably on physical contact in recent history. Now if everyone would just play by the rules, there wouldn't be a problem.

That's not the point. Refs need to use common sense and not bow to pressure from the Sunday game. I agree with Tazdedub's point above. There is no need for TSG to be spending so much time on analysing little incidents from 10 different angles.

This trial by tv is totally unbalanced as an incident in a high-profile game at Croke Park will be analysed to death and often overhyped while an incident in a lesser game at a smaller venue will go undetected simply because there isn't so many cameras.

Either use video evidence all the time or don't use it all. Right now it's being used on an a la carte basis and The Sunday Game are not helping.

MementoMori

No - "over analysing" is not ruining Gaelic Games.

The OP seens to be saying that because The Sunday Games are analysing controversial incidents attendances are down. I totally disagree with this.

The OP says that certain people are saying the game is too physical or over physical. I don't think that there is anyone saying this - I certaintly haven't heard anyone say it. Would the OP care to provide some sources?

The Sunday Game tends to focus on controversial incident and certain supporters don't seem to like this. They go on about trial by video. Well to be honest **** those supporters and their miserable opinion. In general it tends to be the players with lesser ability who go out and try to stop the better players by fouling them - engaging in pulling and dragging, off the ball digs etc. Getting rid of these illegal physical aspects is a hell of a lot different from getting rid of other physcal skills such as the shoulder and is a very good thing in my opinion.

I'm not advocating a system where you have three cameras following each of the thirty players on the pitch as well as each and every sub, every member of the management team, maor uisce, plus linesman and umpires as well as each and every member of the crowd. However I do believe that in any situation where there is video evidence then it should be used 100%. In fact I would be in favour of a situation where the GAA set up a committee to review all available video evidence for big games. For any of the games which are being televised - whether it be by RTE, UTV, Setanta, TG4 or whoever one of the conditions of the game being televised is that a copy of all footage is provided to the GAA. The players would know in advance that if they engaged in fouling etc that there was a good chance they would get punished after the game. The ineviatable outcome would be a much cleaner better game with none of the sh.ite off the ball crap - this would protect the better players from cynical cheap play - it wouldn't mean removing the physical aspects of the game - just the illegal physical aspects.

Kinda got off the point with the rant but I don't see anyone calling the game over physical and I don't see any danger of a time

where a player will get a free for being looked at the wrong way.

On the seperate issue of "trial by video" I agree with aidan

Either use video evidence all the time or don't use it all. Right now it's being used on an a la carte basis and The Sunday Game are not helping.

This is why I would advocate the GAA doing the reviewing of video evidence as opposed to the media. The "evil medja" aren't going to stop reviewing this anytime soon, so players and teams might as well get used to is. The GAA is simply sticking it's head in the sand by not having a proper situation for reviewing video evidence. Perhaps something akin to the rugby situation of a citing officer?

Tazdedub

MomentoMori, if you look at the cork vs Kilkenny thread you will see people on that thread calling Kilkenny over physical, especially on page2. Maybe it is just some supporters who maybe arent aware of the rules and think that because the Rock shouldered some guy and sent him flying into the upper teirs of the stand that he is being a bit too physical, or that physical teams are dirty teams.

As for the niggly fouls that are commited maybe if the GAA adopted a soccer style system (God forgive me) to the yellow cards, where yellow cards are carried over to the next game and say if they get another yellow card in next game then they are suspended for the next game, similar to what happens in the champions league, maybe then the players that are commiting the pulling and dragging will think twice about it and also it will make managers think twice about telling players to pull a man down if he is through for a score.