The Dail Transport Committee. Very complicated people.

Schuhart

I admit this to be a bit of a crank post, but hopefully is above the threshold of an ‘abusive rant’. However, I do accept it is in the nature of a rant and a lengthy one at that. I recently read the proceedings of the Dail Committee on Transport, and was somewhat stunned by the antics of one member, to an extent that I’ve actually put a bit of effort into pinning down why.

Aine Brady is a TD for North Kildare. In a press release on her website she acknowledges the definition of Kildare as part of the Greater Dublin Area, in context of Dublin Transport Authority Bill. Then you discover she made only two comments on DTA when it was before the Oireachtas Transport Committee (which she is a member of). Her two contributions, for the record, were ‘Yes’ and ‘That would be an excellent idea.’

She made a second stage speech on the Bill in the Dail, which reads like it was supplied by head office. It’s the usual ‘much has been achieved but much remains’ stuff.

However, Aine’s interest seemed a little more real when the topic of Shannon Airport came before the Committee. This is the statement that got my goat up

Deputy Áine Brady: I thank the representatives from Shannon Airport for their positive contribution. Given they have been dealt a severe blow, their positive submission must be praised. I represent Kildare North but I have used Shannon Airport because it is easier to access than Dublin Airport from Kildare. The initiative proposed by the Chairman should not be limited to west of Tullamore or Mullingar. Even when the Heathrow slots were taken from the airport, I was asked by tourism interests in Kildare to make the case to retain the slots because it meant a great deal to them. People entering the country via Belfast or Dublin Airports often pass through Kildare. This should be borne in mind when Shannon Airport is being marketed, as it caters for more than the west.

I was frankly stunned by this claim that Shannon Airport is easier to get to from Kildare than Dublin. This in a context where there’s an hourly bus service from Galway to Dublin Airport, suggesting that folk from Aine’s native county are voting for Dublin Airport with their feet.

But has she even any conception that if it was really quicker to drive for three hours to get to Shannon from Clane (where she lives) than go for 25 miles to Dublin Airport that this would be something of a crisis? Should this not feature in her second stage address? As we know, its nonsense. It simply doesn’t take three hours to get from Clane to Dublin Airport. 75% of all Irish air passenger traffic goes through Dublin, in a situation where there is plenty of airport capacity elsewhere in the country. People still choose Dublin because getting there is most certainly not as big a deal as Aine makes out.

So why does she peddle this fantasy? The explanation leaks out here. She’s proud to be a Galway person, and presumably feels she has to do the Western thing of suspending all reason and logic to advocate any and all things Western, including the idea that Kildare people should go to Shannon. The idea that Kildare people might have more of an interest in getting to the eighth most popular international passenger airport in Europe, which is practically on their doorstep, along with hourly busloads of Galway folk, has no place here. We might note that in her apparent claim that Kildare is in the catchment area of Shannon is mirrored in the ludicrous map at the back of the submission produced by Shannon Airport management when they were trying to suspend the law of gravity campaign against the Open Skies negotiations.

Of course, we should not be too hard on Aine. The simple fact is that Western TDs were allowed to take over this committee to advocate services being stripped from Dublin, as was done with the Stopover, regardless of the impact on the East. The fact that some of us might be quite happy about having the eight largest international passenger airport on our doorstep, despite Western messing, did not feature. Aine may have overstepped the mark by actually crossing the country to advocate the corner of the people she obviously wishes elected her. But not one single Dublin of GDA TD stood up to fight its corner. The public space was left to the West, again. The CEO of the DAA was left to handle it, and his comment that he actually had suggested to Aer Lingus that they consider moving Dublin slots to Shannon passed without any Dublin TD asking why Dublin should lose services provided by a commercial airline.

Why are GDA TDs so spineless in the face of pure nonsense? Because we don’t hammer them for it. I take it Aine Brady reckoned no-one would be bothered to read the Committee transcript, so no-one would know she was selling out the East when push came to shove.

I plan to let Aine know how I feel about her contributions with an appropriate letter. But, before putting pen to paper, I’m sort of interesting in seeing if anyone else has a reaction to this kind of nonsense being spouted when our elected representatives are supposed to be performing scrutiny of transport policy.

Sponge Bob

Schuhart wrote: »

I admit this to be a bit of a crank post, but hopefully is above the threshold of an ‘abusive rant’.

I am from the Wesht let me freely admit.

The explanation leaks out here. She’s proud to be a Galway person, and presumably feels she has to do the Western thing of suspending all reason and logic to advocate any and all things Western, including the idea that Kildare people should go to Shannon.

Its not a western thing its an Aine thing . Then again some strange 'Kildare thing' got her elected top of the poll in Kildare North by a mile in 2007 did it not . You makes your bed and whatnot !!

Of course, we should not be too hard on Aine. The simple fact is that Western TDs were allowed to take over this committee to advocate services being stripped from Dublin, as was done with the Stopover, regardless of the impact on the East.

The stopover was in Shannon until it was removed completely , not in Dublin. It was therefore stripped from Shannon !

The fact that some of us might be quite happy about having the eight largest international passenger airport on our doorstep, despite Western messing, did not feature. Aine may have overstepped the mark by actually crossing the country to advocate the corner of the people she obviously wishes elected her. But not one single Dublin of GDA TD stood up to fight its corner. The public space was left to the West, again.

Boo to them so ! The same 'Western' TD's , in their quest for World Domination have not saved the Atlantic Corridor project in Transport 21 from financial oblivion and nor will they get any more railways built in the west in my lifetime no matter what they say about the WRC.

Thats now dead north of Athenry and even Frank Fahey has admitted as much ....and its awful awful hard to get any truth out of Frank Fahey.

Nor have the implemented their own programme for government and bypassed Claregalway as promised. You credit them with far too much power and vision and integrity .....never mind true undying love for the Wesht .

I plan to let Aine know how I feel about her contributions with an appropriate letter. But, before putting pen to paper, I’m sort of interesting in seeing if anyone else has a reaction to this kind of nonsense being spouted when our elected representatives are supposed to be performing scrutiny of transport policy.

If you are a constituent then off with you by all means. Do try to leave out the paranoid conspiracy bit and the very best of luck with upgrading Weston Airdrome into the 7th largest international airport in Europe too

aliveandkicking

Top quality post Schuhart. I am particularly angry at the DAA CEO's suggestion that Aer Lingus take services from his own airport to move them to Shannon :eek:

Schuhart

Sponge Bob wrote: »

some strange 'Kildare thing' got her elected top of the poll in Kildare North by a mile in 2007 did it not .

Absolutely. If her electors deem this to be what they want, then they've only themselves to blame.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The stopover was in Shannon until it was removed completely , not in Dublin. It was therefore stripped from Shannon !

In fairness, the stopover simply amounted to Shannon hijacking initially every flight out of Dublin to the US, and up to its recent end every second flight, so that it could be shaken down for a landing fee.

Sponge Bob

Schuhart wrote: »

In fairness, the stopover simply amounted to Shannon hijacking initially every flight out of Dublin to the US, and up to its recent end every second flight, so that it could be shaken down for a landing fee.

Yes well the US was similarly restrictive in allocating landing slots to European airlines and it was long used as a bargaining counterweight .

Once it was necessary because planes could not fly from Dublin to New York in one go and had to refuel in Shannon .

I still feel in my bones that the grateful denizens of Kildare will happily re-elect Aine and thereby render this thread of no great consequence .

Time Magazine

Excellent post, Schuhart.

Áine Brady is well known in my house for putting a leaflet through my sister's door in Maynooth proclaiming how the opening of the Docklands station would bring trains to Maynooth c. every 11 seconds. Of course all the Dockland-bound trains go nowhere near Maynooth. Poor Áine didn't make the connection between "Maynooth line but pissing off at Clonsilla" with "not going to Maynooth".

I read the JOC Transport Committee transcripts for a regular laugh. Recently it was argued by one Fine Gael TD that his constituents could not get a taxi because there were too many taxis. Wouldn't it be grand if our TDs had a basic understand of supply before they made public comments on it?

And let's not forget the recent Grand Plan for Dublin - "it's time for typos". Frank Fahey reckons we can quadruple Dublin Bus's ridership in two years. It's an ambitious target. As much as that made me laugh, how are we gonna do it? What's the plan? I know, park-and-ride facilities on the N6 at Lucan/Leixlip! Spot the problem. (It might have something to do with the N6 being in Galway.)

Shower of incompetent c*nts.

invincibleirish

Excellent transport nerd detective work Schuhart:D, I recall Aine Brady being defeated in a bye election to Catherine Murphy in a By Election in 2005, both Kildare North & Meath had Elections and 'Commuter' politics were very much in play in the candidates literature & media.

In 2007 she got elected, will her constituents realise that can she really push for the Wests interests & her own? after all it is a limited pot of money, and she is a politician. Maybe she'll go all Sile De Valera if she loses out.

Is she a supporter of the WRC by any chance?

Schuhart

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Once it was necessary because planes could not fly from Dublin to New York in one go and had to refuel in Shannon.

In fairness, what's history is history but I suspect you know that aircraft were capable of overflying Shannon from the 1950's. What kept it afloat was the Stopover. The tax free zone was intended to generate traffic for the airport, but never did to an extent to make it a goer.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I still feel in my bones that the grateful denizens of Kildare will happily re-elect Aine and thereby render this thread of no great consequence .

That's really a matter for voters to decide for themselves. As I said, if this is what they want, then this is what they'll get.

Schuhart

invincibleirish wrote: »

Excellent transport nerd detective work Schuhart:D,

Thank you, indeed. Can I also point out that, like a true anorak, its after 1:00am and I'm still typing about it.

OTK

Schuhart, why do you believe Irish politics should become more parochial? Why do you feel that members of a committee that informs national transport policy ought to put their home county interests or their constituency interests ahead of the national interest?

At committee level, Ms Brady advocates what she considers is the best policy for the country, not the best for Kildare or Galway or Shannon or Dublin. Her lack of bias towards her own constituents confirms her independence of thought. The fact that her constituents re-elect her shows that they approve of her actions even if they are sometimes at the expense of local concerns. This is a fine reflection on the people of Kildare.

GDA TDs have also taken a selfless attitude to infrastructure development, presumably because they felt it was in the national interest. You seem to feel that they should have stood up to defend their own turf. You also complain that Dublin voters don't 'hammer' their TDs at election time for failing to put constituency interest ahead of national interest.

dowlingm

Wikipedia wrote:

Brady is the sister of former Fianna Fáil chief whip Tom Kitt and of Minister of StateMichael Kitt, Jnr, and the daughter of former TD Michael Kitt, Snr. She is married to former TD Gerry Brady

Gotta love the intelligence which flows out of the local monarchies that comprise our electoral system.

serfboard

Schuhart wrote: »

The simple fact is that Western TDs were allowed to take over this committee

Well, let's see now. The makeup of the committee is as follows:

Áine Brady - Kildare North - Leinster
Thomas P. Broughan - Dublin North-East - Leinster
Paul Connaughton - Galway east - Connaught
Timmy Dooley - Clare - Munster
Frank Fahey - Galway West - Connaught
Frank Feighan - Roscommon/South Leitrim - Connaught
Michael Kennedy - Dublin North - Leinster
Michael Lowry - Tipperary North - Munster
Shane McEntee - Meath East - Leinster
Michael McGrath - Tipperary South - Munster
Fergus O'Dowd - Louth - Leinster

So that's Leinster 5, Munster 3 and Connaught 3 - hardly a Western takeover, is it? Unless you're saying that only people who are actually from a particular constituency can represent that constituency? And how would define from - born in, lived all their lives in, work in etc.?

Schuhart wrote: »

I was frankly stunned by this claim that Shannon Airport is easier to get to from Kildare than Dublin.

Of course, this is nonsense. Even when the M7 and Limerick tunnel are complete it'll still be nonsense.

Schuhart wrote: »

This in a context where there’s an hourly bus service from Galway to Dublin Airport, suggesting that folk from Aine’s native county are voting for Dublin Airport with their feet.

FWIW, there's an hourly Bus Eireann service from Galway to Shannon Airport (via Ennis), and a 5-times daily Citylink direct service too. Of course, there is, as you say, the bus service to Dublin airport, but that's because

1) There are more destinations and
2) the flights are often cheaper, because of greater capacity/frequency.

Rawr

As a North Kildare voter, my advice on Aine, and her transport ramblings, is to ignore them and not take heed. As pointed out before, this isn't the first time she's made a self-serving nonsense sound-bite about transport in Kildare.

Slice

Why don't you contact those committee members and call them to account over what they say if you feel so strongly about it? They're public representatives after all.

Schuhart

OTK wrote: »

At committee level, Ms Brady advocates what she considers is the best policy for the country, not the best for Kildare or Galway or Shannon or Dublin. Her lack of bias towards her own constituents confirms her independence of thought.

True. I actually suspect the basis of her suggestion is that if the Kildare people feck off to Shannon, then the hourly busloads of Galway people won’t have as long to cue at Dublin Airport security. How’s that for promoting regional balance.

serfboard wrote: »

So that's Leinster 5, Munster 3 and Connaught 3 - hardly a Western takeover, is it?

I know my first post is lengthy, so I know that my point may not come across clearly. My complaint is the silence of the GDA TDs. That's why I said Aine may have overstepped the mark by actually crossing the country to advocate the corner of the people she obviously wishes elected her. But not one single Dublin of GDA TD stood up to fight its corner.

My complaint is not that there's a lack of balance in the Committee membership. My complaint is the silence of the Leinster TDs - or in Aine's case her evident desire to advocate her native region rather than the one she was elected in.

serfboard wrote: »

Of course, there is, as you say, the bus service to Dublin airport, but that's because

1) There are more destinations and
2) the flights are often cheaper, because of greater capacity/frequency.

Indeed. Do you think Aine will ever acknowledge that Galway people actually benefit from having an hourly bus service to one of the top ten international passenger airports in Europe?

Tipsy Mac

Why have we got people on a Transport Committe who don't regularly use public transport?

Schuhart

Slice wrote: »

Why don't you contact those committee members and call them to account over what they say if you feel so strongly about it? They're public representatives after all.

Apologies as my first post was probably so long that key points were missed. I absolutely agree that the right thing for people to do if a TD says something they disagree with is to contact them. As I said

Schuhart wrote: »

I plan to let Aine know how I feel about her contributions with an appropriate letter. But, before putting pen to paper, I’m sort of interesting in seeing if anyone else has a reaction to this kind of nonsense being spouted when our elected representatives are supposed to be performing scrutiny of transport policy.

At this stage I’ve send an email to Aine Brady TD and the other TDs in Kildare North (where I am a constituent) outlining my core concern, and drawing attention to these posts.

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Why have we got people on a Transport Committe who don't regularly use public transport?

In fairness, the purpose of the Committee is to oversee all Department of Transport matters. That includes more that just public transport. It also includes things like roads, aviation, maritime safety, driver licencing.

Personally, I don’t generally hold with the idea that only drivers can talk about road safety, only farmers can talk about agricultural policy etc etc. The idea is that these are our representatives, overseeing what our Government is doing. You don’t need to be a lighthouse keeper to ask a coherent question about maritime safety.

Or, put another way, if we wanted a lighthouse keeper on the Transport Committee, then we’d need to elect one.

serfboard

Schuhart wrote: »

Personally, I don’t generally hold with the idea that only drivers can talk about road safety, only farmers can talk about agricultural policy etc etc. The idea is that these are our representatives, overseeing what our Government is doing. You don’t need to be a lighthouse keeper to ask a coherent question about maritime safety.

No, but I think the poster's point, which I would agree with, is that only people who use it regularly really appreciate how good or bad it is.

As I've said before, if everyone in the Department of Transport from the Minister down, was forced to take public transport to work, you'd see changes happening very fast. The Dublin City Centre businesses said something similar lately too in calling for public servants' car parking spaces to be removed.

On your more general point, you are despairing about the quality of elected representatives. One therefore has to ask a question about the electors. If they didn't like her, they could have voted for someone else. If they didn't like any of them, they could have abstained from voting, or spoiled their vote in protest. TBH, I believe that if you don't like your local representatives, or any other options, it is your duty, as a citizen, to put yourself up for election.

And remember, most Irish people vote for politicians they've actually personally met. Hence, the de rigeur attendance at funerals, etc.

invincibleirish

serfboard wrote: »

No, but I think the poster's point, which I would agree with, is that only people who use it regularly really appreciate how good or bad it is.

As I've said before, if everyone in the Department of Transport from the Minister down, was forced to take public transport to work, you'd see changes happening very fast. The Dublin City Centre businesses said something similar lately too in calling for public servants' car parking spaces to be removed.

On your more general point, you are despairing about the quality of elected representatives. One therefore has to ask a question about the electors. If they didn't like her, they could have voted for someone else. If they didn't like any of them, they could have abstained from voting, or spoiled their vote in protest. TBH, I believe that if you don't like your local representatives, or any other options, it is your duty, as a citizen, to put yourself up for election.

And remember, most Irish people vote for politicians they've actually personally met. Hence, the de rigeur attendance at funerals, etc.

You are of course correct, but i'd love to see the snorts of derision that would come from our more Country & Western TDs and Cabinet Ministers when a proposal like that above would be put to them. These Pols are kings of their fiefdoms, The big Ministerial car is a Right to these people:P!

Slice

At this stage I’ve send an email to Aine Brady TD and the other TDs in Kildare North

You would be taken more seriously if you wrote a letter instead of an email in my opinion

Schuhart

serfboard wrote: »

No, but I think the poster's point, which I would agree with, is that only people who use it regularly really appreciate how good or bad it is.

Indeed, but the same goes for cancer services, maths teaching in schools and yadda yadda yadda. Do you think its likely that a large portion of our 166 TDs will have personal experience of being customers of every State service?

serfboard wrote: »

The Dublin City Centre businesses said something similar lately too in calling for public servants' car parking spaces to be removed.

Now there's an idea.

serfboard wrote: »

TBH, I believe that if you don't like your local representatives, or any other options, it is your duty, as a citizen, to put yourself up for election.

I agree with the broad thrust of that, but I don't feel I exhausted all the options yet. I feel the missing link is actually that people don't clearly communicate their real priorities to the political system. If all they hear about is gob****es asking them to get the Council to cut the grass more frequently or put in a speed bump, then that’s what the TDs will concentrate on.

Slice wrote: »

You would be taken more seriously if you wrote a letter instead of an email in my opinion

She replied to me late last night.

What might have expedited it is I sent the links to this thread and a similar one on politics.ie to some of the local papers, and I know one of them rang her up to ask her about it.

But I agree, the main thing is people should take an interest in their own public affairs and let it be known if something bother them. There's no point in giving out here and then doing nothing. Or, worse, when the canvasser comes around at the next election saying 'when are the Council going to cut that grass'.

serfboard

Schuhart wrote: »

Do you think its likely that a large portion of our 166 TDs will have personal experience of being customers of every State service?

No, and that's the point. Because they don't have regular direct contact with certain State services they won't prioritise them as much.

Schuhart wrote: »

I feel the missing link is actually that people don't clearly communicate their real priorities to the political system.

Well, that's why the politicans hold clinics.

Schuhart wrote: »

If all they hear about is gob****es asking them to get the Council to cut the grass more frequently or put in a speed bump, then that’s what the TDs will concentrate on.

Exactly - if that's what people ask them to do, then that's what they'll do. Politicans call it "delivering on the ground". And if you want to know what people ask for when they go to the clinics, I suggest you read Katie Hannon's book - The Naked Politician (IIRC). How many people who go to the clinics talk to their politicans about public transport, would you say?

If you're in Aine Bradys constituency, why don't you go to one of her clinics yourself? Oh yeah, and send her 17 more letters to accompany the one you sent previously. Because often times, politicians will only do something to get someone off their back. (A bit like the way the rest of us might deal with a particularly persistent customer at work).

As you've said yourself "There's no point in giving out here and then doing nothing".

markf909

serfboard wrote: »

If you're in Aine Bradys constituency, why don't you go to one of her clinics yourself?

Aine doesn't do clinics.

Its appointment only.

Zebra3

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Why have we got people on a Transport Committe who don't regularly use public transport?

Because those sort of committees are about rewarding TDs and bumping up their expenses and panning out their CVs. If anything useful is actually achieved it's a bonus.

Schuhart

serfboard wrote: »

No, and that's the point. Because they don't have regular direct contact with certain State services they won't prioritise them as much.

I feel the point is more that it cannot reasonably be expected that TDs will have regular direct contact as customers of most State services. For the sake of argument, Ireland spends something like a billion on development aid. Clearly, TDs will not have personal experience of receiving Irish development aid (or if they do they have an amount of explaining to do). But they still need to oversee how much we spend on it, and express an opinion on whether they think its well spent.

serfboard wrote: »

How many people who go to the clinics talk to their politicans about public transport, would you say?

Approximately damn all. In fact, if you weren't there for advice on how to fill in the pension form I'd say they'd hardly know what to do with you.

serfboard wrote: »

If you're in Aine Bradys constituency, why don't you go to one of her clinics yourself? Oh yeah, and send her 17 more letters to accompany the one you sent previously. Because often times, politicians will only do something to get someone off their back. (A bit like the way the rest of us might deal with a particularly persistent customer at work).

As you've said yourself "There's no point in giving out here and then doing nothing".

Again, I broadly agree that what we need to do is vocalise our concerns to our representatives. I'd honestly be afraid that if I tried expressing my views to Aine face to face I'd end up screaming at her while she watched this lunatic in bemused silence, unable to see what it was that got me so worked up. I'm better, on this issue, trying to set down my opinion in writing, with some semblance of logic.

I'm happy enough that I got my point across on this occasion and I think its a point that would be better supported by lots of people making contact than one persistent caller. I don't see, for the sake of argument, the Government deciding the Interconnector is too hot to cancel because Aine Brady is being persecuted by a crank. I do seem them having pause for thought if twenty TDs in different constituencies all report that they’ve had contact from a few dozen people all worried that the Interconnector, and all it makes possible, might not happen.

I wouldn’t underestimate the value of these forums, either. I think they are useful both in spreading awareness of things and clarifying arguments. I certainly found out far more about transport from browsing around here than I would from just reading the newspapers. But I doubt if many TDs are that serious about the internet, so I agree we better off giving them our views by more traditional methods.

Sponge Bob

Schuhart wrote: »

I do seem them having pause for thought if twenty TDs in different constituencies all report that they’ve had contact from a few dozen people all worried that the Interconnector, and all it makes possible, might not happen.

I see 166 TDs being bul****ted to by CIE all week with their €2bn estimate, it will cost €4bn when all the bits and pieces are added up