IBB introduced download limit

php-fox

I've got IBB 3mb DSL broadband business line. Was very happy with it until recent times.

Just checked the Irish Broadband web site 2 minutes ago, and my jaw hit the table. They introduced the download limit to all DSL packages. But, when I was signing up for it, the broadband was totally unlimited. Can they do such a thing? Even without a notification. I never got any emails or calls. Or may be the existing users are not affected? Any one got any information on this?

I'll probably give them a ring tomorrow just to clarify what's going on.
On the other side, IBB quality really dropped in the past few month. First it was torrents (legal ones of course:), which do not go over 5 kb/s download speed, then it was the general downloading/surfing speed, which is not not even reaching 2 mb/s. And finally the ping.
Do know what to do here really I won't survive through another ISP change

Cabaal

Forget what the site said, what did you T&C's say when you signed up...did they mention a cap, limit or fair usage policy?

Blindpew

I think there is a lot of false advertising going on with broadband packages. To me no cap means no cap, having a fair usage policy hidden in small print is deceptive and the regulator needs to make them state very clearly what their limits are. If you signed up to an uncapped product then thats what it should be. Having a condition that they can change a package whenever they want shouldn't be allowed. The ombudsman or someone needs to take on these fraudsters.

watty

Fair usage has always meant "There is a big cap, but we won't tell you what it is". It's devious.

I think you find also the T&C allow most operators to change the nature / quality / Cap etc for "Operation Reasons" or some such.

It's certainly not regulated or supplied in the sense that mains gas or mains electricity is.

MunsterCycling

But that's the point Watty, it should be regulated to the degree that the provider is either providing a cap free service which allows them to advertise it as such or they have a cap however large that they can take action if you exceed. Advertising standards regulation (what an oxymoron) in this country is abysmal, time to crack the whip.

MC

mlink73

I just called IBB and they confirmed that the new download caps only apply to contracts signed post 1. July 2008, all others remain uncapped.

Happy downloading....

thenightrider

Ive got the same broadband my torrrents have goten very bad lately i was thinking of going to bt as i can get up to 24mb were i am for the same prise a 3mb only thing is if there is any probs with bt and wanted o go back to IBB ill only get 30 gb

What to do what to do ????

papu

also it says DSL , im assuming Breeze is unaffected?

wiwninwinwiwniwnwinw
i like my err..linux distros and game demos... corr 1.6 gigs for batlefield bad company on ps3.... too bad it sucked...

php-fox

Yep, rang them this morning, that's right, no caps for us - existing customers.
thenightrider, I use BT at work in Kilkenny. It's a 3mb package and it's just amazing. Torrents speed are great, and the line can usually handle very many users with no probs..
So, I've only had good experience with BT.

kevcon1974

I have the same BB package as yourself in IBB and i am still on the old contract wth unlimited, if you signed up about 3 months ago or more you will still be on the old contract. I clarified this when i emailed somebody in imagine who bought IBB and he told me that i am unlimited, so dont worry. they cant change your old contract without asking you

ven0m

php-fox wrote: »

I've got IBB 3mb DSL broadband business line. Was very happy with it until recent times.

Just checked the Irish Broadband web site 2 minutes ago, and my jaw hit the table. They introduced the download limit to all DSL packages. But, when I was signing up for it, the broadband was totally unlimited. Can they do such a thing? Even without a notification. I never got any emails or calls. Or may be the existing users are not affected? Any one got any information on this?

I'll probably give them a ring tomorrow just to clarify what's going on.
On the other side, IBB quality really dropped in the past few month. First it was torrents (legal ones of course:), which do not go over 5 kb/s download speed, then it was the general downloading/surfing speed, which is not not even reaching 2 mb/s. And finally the ping.
Do know what to do here really I won't survive through another ISP change

IBB are resellers of eircom's wholesale DSL product, & I know from my time there when this was introduced this was going to cause problems down the line. IBB are merely only probably passing on what has been mandated to them by their suppliers.

Also, you're on DSL .... i.e. shared service ...... methinks people are a little over-expectant of what they're getting regardless of 'how expensive it is'.

I think people in Ireland have an over-expectancy of what they are being delivered from their ISP's & always have done. You're on shared services. You're on services that regardless of how expensive they seem, you're in no way entitled to same kind of guarantees as dedicated lines.

I spent 12 years in telecoms for various companies in Ireland & globally to know that home user connectivity services are 'best effort' services, & people's expectations are completely unrealistic, regardless of prices they pay. It's just a simple fact.

IBB are one of the better service providers out there (despite my own personal arguments with their internal policies & management, which Imagine seem to be sorting out), & they have a solid product in Breeze, RipWave is laughable & has a HUGE return rate, & it is because the services it can offer are oversold, & the range is greatly over-estimated.

Their DSL, you really need to cut them some slack, as it is only eircom's DSL product resold, & eircom wholesale haven't exactly been the most helpful bunch to IBB, even at the outset when they were getting it off the ground.

Hopefuly, with Sean Bolger's lot now running IBB, things will improve for everyone.

nohopengn

IBB are one of the better service providers???

In work, we've had dedicated connections from IBB and they have been appalling... I completely agree with you about the Rip-off-wave product.

Imagine probably will improve things...

Cuddlesworth

Has anybody tried to get confirmation in writing that your cap has not been effected. I tend not to believe what has been said to me over the phone. If you can get a email or written letter to that effect I would tend to believe them.

dunworth1

nohopengn wrote: »

Imagine probably will improve things...

i dont think so

dunworth1

was just look at ibbs website and noticed that there is now a cap on ripwave


Well done Imagine

so much for imagine improving things they are making things worse

php-fox

I think people in Ireland have an over-expectancy of what they are being delivered from their ISP's & always have done. You're on shared services. You're on services that regardless of how expensive they seem, you're in no way entitled to same kind of guarantees as dedicated lines.

What is that supposed to mean? Over-expectancy? People in Ireland or in any other country expect only what they were promised. I was promised a 3mb/s line for example. And I was getting it for a long time, until recently it appeared to be a 1.5-2 mb line. It's not me who sets the price plans and makes promises, it's the ISP who do that. I listen to them, I agree to their T&C and I expect to have what I was promised. And I don't care if the ISP has to fire fifty managers, crush the house which got on the way and causing an obstruction for the cable which needs to get to my house. This is not my problem. I don't expect more from anyone, but I also don't expect any less than I pay for. If they experience network overload, they must upgrade their equipment. End of story.

papu

ven0m wrote: »

I think people in Ireland have an over-expectancy of what they are being delivered from their ISP's & always have done. You're on shared services. You're on services that regardless of how expensive they seem, you're in no way entitled to same kind of guarantees as dedicated lines.

no really thats Bs , not attacking IBB here but the whole system In general , Nigeria has better broadband infrastructure than us , I CAN'T and prolly never will be able to get DSL into this House because the Cheapo Telecom Eireann , Or Eircom, though i'm leaning on the latter Randomly Chose our Phone Copper and Physically Split it with a house built up our lane about 4 years ago , to get DSL they would have to run another line all the way from the exchange which they are not willing to do , i Mean seriously , i have spent whole days ringing support staff , reporting faults on the line , because with the split line we sometimes get crossed wires which is just Unacceptable ...

Now were stuck on a Fixed wireless package , with Very High Latency 70M/s on a good day , and for the needs of the people using the Broadband it barely Cuts it , I can Forget every Playing in Fp's Comps because the ping is too high , and 1 computer can't even watch youtube without being kick from a server on the other .. , Being the unlucky split line on a lane of 10 might make me a little sour but the lack of initiative oN eircoms side , and the governments side to wheel out fiber or fix the rural nightmare or Old bad Split copper and Borked Exchanges makes me sick..

ven0m

dunworth1 wrote: »

was just look at ibbs website and noticed that there is now a cap on ripwave


Well done Imagine

so much for imagine improving things they are making things worse

RipWave getting a cap, long overdue. Ripwave units cost IBB approx 370 euros just for the receiver alone, never mind base station costs, maintenance, staffing etc costs per unit as well as transit charges. In the 19.95 a month people pay for them, they average between 4-6 months, meaning a device which after a year on the balance sheet is worth next to near butt nothing repays them less than 180 euros, nevermind the support costs per device, the 20 euros (10 each way) they pay the euroroute etc .... so now tell me that as a BUSINESS introducing a cap on ripwave "isn't fair". The average RipWave customer accounts for 80% at least of support incidents inside IBB. If IBB were truly smart, they'd stop overselling their abilities, & cap that mofo with a 1550 number for support.

IBB took that on in the hope it would help them grow their business, it did & it didn't. It harmed their business more than anything with it being a huge loss maker, with some hope people may convert to Breeze (extremely good product compared to the rest of the market), or now move to their repackaged DSL. The huge losses & costs per unit are borderline ridiculous.

In relation to over expectancy, your average internet user in ireland is less well educated about the actual costs of delivering services than their european counterparts. Everyone expects something for nothing in Ireland, & it is common across most I.T. services provided in Ireland.

Everyone expects redundancy, good uptime SLA's etc, when the reality is - you're paying for aggregated/shared services that are provided on best efforts, at which point some poor bastard in a call centre receives a nasty call where a customer shouts & roars at them when (a) they're just an employee, (b) they don't dictate policy & (c) the dumbass customer in the first place goes ahead & buys something without reading any terms & conditions, & assuming a ton of things that if jotted down, would barely fill a postage stamp.

People say 'I don't care, I want what I paid for' - newsflash, you are getting what you've paid for, & mandated in terms & conditions that usage of the service constitutes acceptance of, I mean come on - what do you expect for 20 euros a month ...... that's less than 5 pints of beer in perspective. How does ANYONE expect companies to upgrade equipment when money is tight without price increases & when price increases happen, you get the a-typical Joe Duffy whiners clogging up media time. Things cost money. If you don't have money, it needs to be raised. If you're a business, that means price increases. It is simple economics & anyone with a shred of business accumen would & does understand that, accept it as part of the facts of life, & gets on with it.

Work in telecoms & Broadband delivery for 12 years, then come back to me & argue with me about 'fairness', 'expectations' etc. I've been there, done that & been given many t-shirts by a great deal many companies here & globally, & I've seen & heard it all folks. Ireland is fast becoming a broken record when it comes to telecoms customers, who are their own worst enemies due to total ignorance of what they are actually getting in their packages.

php-fox

People say 'I don't care, I want what I paid for' - newsflash, you are getting what you've paid for, & mandated in terms & conditions that usage of the service constitutes acceptance of, I mean come on - what do you expect for 20 euros a month

Not 20 euros a month. I pay 45 + the static IP address (which is another madness that I went through getting it )

Once you have registered for the Service, you will be able, subject to Clause 3.6, to access the Service on an “always-on” basis at transmission up to the agreed level for the Service Option you have subscribed to.

The Customer acknowledges that Irish Broadband cannot warrant that the Service will be interrupted or error free or that the transmission of information through the Service will be secure. The Service may be suspended for operational reasons (such as maintenance or Service upgrades) or because of an emergency. Before suspending or interrupting the Service (as aforesaid) Irish Broadband shall use its reasonable commercial endeavours to give the Customer as much notice as is reasonably possible.

Quote from here, official T&C.
http://www.irishbroadband.ie/terms.php?tc=4

So, "always-on-service" is promised. If the service cannot be delivered in full, I clearly see the promise of notification

It is simple economics & anyone with a shred of business accumen would & does understand that, accept it as part of the facts of life, & gets on with it.

I never complained about prices. I don't mind a small price increase if it really benefits the quality of service.

ven0m

php-fox wrote: »

Not 20 euros a month. I pay 45 + the static IP address (which is another madness that I went through getting it )




Quote from here, official T&C.
http://www.irishbroadband.ie/terms.php?tc=4

So, "always-on-service" is promised. If the service cannot be delivered in full, I clearly see the promise of notification

I never complained about prices. I don't mind a small price increase if it really benefits the quality of service.

'always-on' is a term that is constantly under scrutiny here & in the UK, as it's not true. ASAI & ComReg if memory serves have been investigating this, or were waiting or the outcome in the UK, as there was a challenge to the term in the UK, after a fiasco with Virgin Broadband afaik.

p.s. which highsite are you on?

MrVestek

The new Ts & Cs don't apply to you. DSL packages are still unlimited if you stick with the IBB package.

Imagine will probably be calling you over the next few days to try and convince you to switch to imagine DSL and phone line. If you wanna keep your account unlimited then reject the deal.

ven0m

Achilles wrote: »

The new Ts & Cs don't apply to you. DSL packages are still unlimited if you stick with the IBB package.

Imagine will probably be calling you over the next few days to try and convince you to switch to imagine DSL and phone line. If you wanna keep your account unlimited then reject the deal.

+1

If you're outside the initial 6 months however, the new T&C's can be applied to you.

MrVestek

dunworth1 wrote: »

was just look at ibbs website and noticed that there is now a cap on ripwave


Well done Imagine

so much for imagine improving things they are making things worse

From an infrastructure point of view they're actually improving things alot. Bringing in a cap on a Ripwave product (which is a basic entry level broadband product) is actually a good thing from a support end of things.

One user torrenting his bandwidth can completely **** over a highsite for other users in the area causing them to get slow speeds because as ven0m has already stated it's a shared service.

corkstudent

Venom, your entire argument is apologist bull**** due to the fact that if it was any other country in europe, we WOULD be getting what's promised us.

ven0m

corkstudent wrote: »

Venom, your entire argument is apologist bull**** due to the fact that if it was any other country in europe, we WOULD be getting what's promised us.

Again, work inside IBB & the industry for 12 years, then try telling me my 'argument is bull****'. In NO other country with broadband services similar to Ireland's do you get any guarantees on speed, availability or otherwise included in the terms of service. Dunno where you get your 'facts' from, but I hope you didn't pay for them.

FACT: Shared services come with NO guarantees.
FACT: No DSL provider in europe gives you performance guarantees, or uptime guarantees
FACT: Cost of provisioning in Ireland is expensive
FACT: Broadband delivery technology, as most people have it uses precarious technology, which is often overly expensive yielding piteous returns on investment
FACT: No telecoms company in Ireland who provides DSL is willing to pay or the maintenance of the infrastructure, which is why LLU is still an issue here, as eircom want people to contribute to the infrastructure upkeep, & the others often do not want to
FACT: Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in europe for telecoms & I.T. provisioning simply down to return on investment per user, with a refusal by most commercial parties to invest in any proper maintenance, infrastructure growth, or protecting their investments going forward

I deal in facts corkstudent, & industry experience, not heresay based on unequal measurements that disregard economies of scale.

MrVestek

ven0m wrote: »

Again, work inside IBB & the industry for 12 years, then try telling me my 'argument is bull****'. In NO other country with broadband services similar to Ireland's do you get any guarantees on speed, availability or otherwise included in the terms of service. Dunno where you get your 'facts' from, but I hope you didn't pay for them.

FACT: Shared services come with NO guarantees.
FACT: No DSL provider in europe gives you performance guarantees, or uptime guarantees
FACT: Cost of provisioning in Ireland is expensive
FACT: Broadband delivery technology, as most people have it uses precarious technology, which is often overly expensive yielding piteous returns on investment
FACT: No telecoms company in Ireland who provides DSL is willing to pay or the maintenance of the infrastructure, which is why LLU is still an issue here, as eircom want people to contribute to the infrastructure upkeep, & the others often do not want to
FACT: Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in europe for telecoms & I.T. provisioning simply down to return on investment per user, with a refusal by most commercial parties to invest in any proper maintenance, infrastructure growth, or protecting their investments going forward

I deal in facts corkstudent, & industry experience, not heresay based on unequal measurements that disregard economies of scale.

I can't fault any of ven0m's statements here and he's right, any of the points you have to make are just based on heresay and nonfamiliarity with how the infrastructure works.

As ven0m has said if you were working inside the telecoms industry you'd see it from our point of view.

corkstudent wrote:

Venom, your entire argument is apologist bull**** due to the fact that if it was any other country in europe, we WOULD be getting what's promised us.

So you're trying to tell me that DSL in other countries is always 1:1, is never contended at the exchange? I call bull**** on that too.

jor el

php-fox wrote: »

Yep, rang them this morning, that's right, no caps for us - existing customers.

I'd get that in writing if I were you. Also, get a copy of your current T&Cs, and keep it safe, just in case they ever do decide to try impose the new conditions on older contact customers.

MrVestek

jor el wrote: »

I'd get that in writing if I were you. Also, get a copy of your current T&Cs, and keep it safe, just in case they ever do decide to try impose the new conditions on older contact customers.

Again unless he agrees to change over to an Imag!ne connection when they call up and then change their DSL username and password they're stil held to the OLD Ts and Cs when they signed up for the connection.

ven0m

jor el wrote: »

I'd get that in writing if I were you. Also, get a copy of your current T&Cs, and keep it safe, just in case they ever do decide to try impose the new conditions on older contact customers.

If you have a DSL service with IBB, & are inside the existing 6 month contract before this change, you are not affected, although - technically, they do have a provision in their T&C's for changes in the services as long as they give notice in writing.

However, if you're outside the 6 months, you are on a month-by-month basis, at which case you're not locked into anything, & they can change it, as long as sufficien notice in writing (emails count) is made within the specified times as manadated in their own T&C's.

Every aggregated I.T./ telecoms service provider has clauses for this in the T&C's. It's an industry standard.

watty

corkstudent wrote: »

Venom, your entire argument is apologist bull**** due to the fact that if it was any other country in europe, we WOULD be getting what's promised us.

Actually managed networks give users higher speed and lower latency. The UK has much much worse contention than us, though the line rental is much lower and DSL is much easier to get.