how does a boxer assess his ideal fighting weight?

maradona10

pardon my ignorance but when a boxer is starting out how does his trainer decide what is his ideal fighting weight?

how does his trainer know whether to build him up or get him to lose weight or both?

is it done by getting the boxer to a certain bodyfat level or does the boxer have to near starve himself to see how low in weight he can go?

im just curious considering the amount of boxers who move up in weight in the pro game, how does a trainer know what is best weight would be

hope someone can help with this

thanks

Hero Of College

My own experience suggests that you find a weight he can comfortably make with around 8-10% body fat, and then pick the next division down and see if you can make that.

The fighter will have to be in good physical nick to start with.

If I am a good 20lbs overweight, and evidently fat, then the division I should be in cannot be determined UNTIL I get into some sort of shape.

Also, the age of the competitor needs to be factored in.

A growing child will need constant assessment- its better to have a kid in a slightly higher division than a slightly lower one- if he is being overmatched the fight can be stopped- but the damage caused by making him take fights at unnaturally low weights is far greater and has greater long term repercussions.

If you are full-grown, then

1. Get into shape.

2. Measure your height and body mass index.

3. Determine the division you are in, at that moment in time.

4. Then try and get down 1 division. If you are still comfortable at that, then that is your division. If you want, you can try one more down but its unlikely, given that you started off in shape and already dropped one division.

maradona10

thanks for that, its very helpful.

im curious though what way a trainer judges someone when they first walk into a gym.

do they first get the boxer training to a certain level regarding skills,fitness and strength regardless of what weight he or she is at that moment and then look at cutting weight or do they look at stripping away any excess weight first and then training the fighter

also do heavyweights cut weight and if they do how do they determine their best performance weight. so many of them appear to come in out of shape but is it really necessary to come in to the point of being ripped in the heavyweight division.

i was looking at manny paquiaos 2nd fight with marquez where he gained 16lbs after the wiegh in. do fighters lose this weight gradually during camp or do they use methods to lose it in the last few days and pile it back on.

some fighters seem to fight with a serious unfair advantage over others. does anyone have any opinions or info on this.

thanks again

cowzerp

the boxer should aim to be as light as there body allows them, weight is gradually lost till your lean then water weight may be lost days before the weigh in to make your planned weight, if you where 66 kg but needed to be 64 you'd lose the 2 through training, usually sweat training. If you fought at the higher weight you could be fighting lads who are naturally 6-7 kg heavier than you. When you join a boxing club they wont even talk about weight till you can box and are getting ready for a comp, if the fighters disadvantaged then thats his own fault, the same rules apply to everyone. .heavyweights dont need to cut weight if there in shape, they should aim to be as lean as they can be for optimum speed and condition, many are fat and thats why they'll never be the best..see butterbean for example

walshb

Paul said it all for me.

The important thing is to fight at as light a weight as you can while still being effective and not weak or dehydrated. You go too low, you lose, you don't go low enough and you end up fighting naturally bigger opponents. It is not an exact science. You have to find a 'happy medium'...

maradona10

thanks for the replies.

given whats been said above how would oscar de la hoya and manny paquiao approach their bout as regards preperation.

freddie roach has said that he doesnt want the fight any higher than 147lbs http://www.fightfan.com/?p=279

considering paquiao was 146 lbs in the ring against diaz how much weight do you think he will actually give away in the ring to de la hoya who is coming down in weight.

walshb

Oscar at this stage in his career will find it very hard to come in at 147 lbs.
Pac will make it easy and will be able to eat pretty normally and train pretty normally.
The big thing is fight night, where Oscar could weigh 160 lbs and Pac probably 150 lbs, however, what consequences will Oscar possibly suffer from draining to get to 147 lbs? That's the question

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

Oscar at this stage in his career will find it very hard to come in at 147 lbs.
Pac will make it easy and will be able to eat pretty normally and train pretty normally.
The big thing is fight night, where Oscar could weigh 160 lbs and Pac probably 150 lbs, however, what consequences will Oscar possibly suffer from draining to get to 147 lbs? That's the question

160??!! Jesus, that sounds like a huge cut for a welterweight to make. Surely you couldn't perform at an optimal level after a cut that severe could you?

delllat

u can definately lose a ****load of waterweight before the weigh in and put it all back on before the fight
its called cutting weight and its not uncommon for fighters to lose15 or 20lbs

matt hughes and georges st pierre are prime examplles

they both fight in the ufc and both walk around at about 190lbs slimming down to fight in the 170lbs division

if done safely weight cutting is very adventageous,u can be much bigger and stronger than an opponent who chooses not to cut

dehydration is the main factor but emptying the bowells with laxatives and or colonic irrigation is also used and helps shed an extra few pounds

Fall_Guy

Yeah, It's obvious a lot of fighters cut significant weight, but I would think that even in the case of the fighters you mentioned who are clearly a lot bigger by fight time than at weigh-in, a twenty lb cut may be a bit of a stretch. I remember hearing Randy Couture saying before that the most he ever cut for a comp (think it was a wrestling comp, where huge cuts are the norm from what I can tell) was 15-20 lbs, and he's a much larger man than either st. pierre and hughes.

For a man who walks around at about 160 to expect to cut a stone and then be at his best the night after seems mad though! YOu'd have to think a person would be weight-drained and his stamina would suffer to some extent?

cowzerp

i lost about 20lbs for 1 of my last mma fights, at pro level you have to have 24hours gap between weigh in and fight legally, hydration can be completed if done properly, also most of the time you'll have additional hours too!

i dont normally cut that much, i was away the whole week before fight so had to go to this extreme, my stamina was fine the next day! and im lifghter than gsp and hughes naturally..

Fall_Guy

Jesus, ya learn something new everyday! Fair play, That must have been a nightmare! How much would you have put back on by fight time? Would you consider making such a large cut in the future? I mean, did you feel a noticeable weight/strength advantage in the clinch over your opponent?

cowzerp

My opponent was bigger than me even with this, normally im bigger but this dude was huge, i probably went up a couple of lbs heavier than i started! it was tough enough, i just done with old school boxing sweat training, and no food or water! not recommended if i can be helped!

i will probably lose 10 lb in future, i had to go away with the missus then as it was her last hol before the baby pops out! i did not drink but training was poor and the food was crap so i ended up having to go to extremes!

i will be leaner when i cut the 10 so will be in better shape and stronger in future, normally i cut fat over a matter of months, 2 mainly..then water for last day or 2 if necessary.

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

160??!! Jesus, that sounds like a huge cut for a welterweight to make. Surely you couldn't perform at an optimal level after a cut that severe could you?

Well that depends on what he weighs in the gym preparing. I mentioned 160 lbs on fight night. Oscar could walk around at 170, prepare for the bout and weigh in 147, and then thru 24 hrs of replenishment, he could gain anywhere between 7 and 14 lbs

Fall_Guy

Cowzerp, that's mad, your man must have been like sean sherk or something! I don't know how you put yourself through that sort of a cut, I couldn't sit in a sauna for 30 seconds, let alone contemplate training hard enough to lose that sort of water!

walshb, never realised that boxers made such big cuts, though i can see the value of it provided people didn't feel totally drained the next day.

cowzerp

At the same weights boxers are bigger than mma fighters, there better known for cutting..some of the modern mma fighters like gsp are learning this too...the modern mma fighter will be bigger than there weight suggests!

ps, i would have said he did look like sean sherk tbh, fair play to him, he worked hard to be so lean and make the weight..he was a couple of inches shorter than me though!

walshb

Man, I was an 8 stone fighter until aged 20 and stood 5 feet 7, which is quite tall. I was far from skinny. I was ripped at that weight, bloody 8 pack I had, had to get that in!:D
Boxers will always get to the lowest efficient weight, however, recently, since the introduction of the day before weigh in at pro level, most fighters are really dropping to unnatural weights and then replenishing big time in the 24 hrs preceding the actual fight.

The Gatti-Gamache fiasco from several years back is an example of how dangerous it can be.

http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Gatti_Arturo.html

Gatti gained a hell of a lot of weight in the 24 hrs after the weigh in. Gamache did not, as he was naturally the smaller man and was ideally at the 140 lb agreed weight.