New Organisation

charles2825

Hi,

I am looking to get a new wrestling organisation going in south Dublin and looking to see if can get any interest from people, to bounce ideas off each other etc. This business will be starting from scratch. Any ideas or any input please feel free to contact me.

Thanks

Fozzy

Don't expect to make much money

Would you be training new wrestlers or getting guys in who have already wrestled for a while?

Bounty Hunter

whats your own personal background in wrestling? if you dont mind me asking

rovert

Nothing good will come of this if you dont know EXACTLY what you are doing.

charles2825

Well my idea would be to start little wrestling school before really moving on to anything else, wrestling has alot of following here and theres not a whole load of programs around. wrestling school would defo be the first step. as for my personal background in wrestling iv just been a fan for the past 20 years. as a kid wanting to be a wrestling but no where ya could really go. no easy access anywhere. so really just looking to get info on this one.

rovert

franklin25 wrote: »

Well my idea would be to start little wrestling school before really moving on to anything else, wrestling has alot of following here and theres not a whole load of programs around. wrestling school would defo be the first step. as for my personal background in wrestling iv just been a fan for the past 20 years. as a kid wanting to be a wrestling but no where ya could really go. no easy access anywhere. so really just looking to get info on this one.

You will need a) a trainer who does konw what he is doing b) a ring c) a gym and d) insurance.

If you want my advice is either train to be a wrestler or just buy Total Extreme Wrestling for the PC and live out life as a promoter there.

michael.etc...

Unless you have the financing to put backing behind an already existing school, or a company in need of one, i doubt very much you'll recieve much support in setting one up, considering you have no background whatsoever.

I guess you'd need to locate some trainers who are looking work, but i imagine coming in as you are, they'd be expecting you to be a money man.

rovert

michael.etc... wrote: »

I guess you'd need to locate some trainers who are looking work, but i imagine coming in as you are, they'd be expecting you to be a money man.

I may sound really negative but I’ve followed wrestling in Ireland, UK & America on an Indy and this want happens to someone in your position. Wrestlers see someone like you who is inexperienced with money (a money mark) and they go out to bleed them dry. It is a horrible cutthroat business based on deception and fakery.

michael.etc...

Oh yeah, I agree. I'm not suggesting this guy should do this at all. but if he were to get into the business, that's probably his only avenue, and you're probably right, he would get f****d.

rovert

michael.etc... wrote: »

Unless you have the financing to put backing behind an already existing school, or a company in need of one, i doubt very much you'll recieve much support in setting one up, considering you have no background whatsoever.

I guess you'd need to locate some trainers who are looking work, but i imagine coming in as you are, they'd be expecting you to be a money man.

michael.etc... wrote: »

Oh yeah, I agree. I'm not suggesting this guy should do this at all. but if he were to get into the business, that's probably his only avenue, and you're probably right, he would get f****d.

Just look what happened with Steven Gauntley and 1PW. A guy who didnt know he was doing and he lost tonnes of money.

the flananator

Franklin, if you want to start up a new promotion fair play to you, but Boards.ie (or any internet forum for that matter) is a terrible, terrible place to start.

The vast majority of guys on here have never and will never be involved in the business, and as such most will try and suck you positivity out of you (though some fair points have been made here thus far).

My advice to you would be to go away and have a good hard think about what it is you want to do. Is there a market for a training school in South Dublin? Is there a market for wrestling shows? On what kind of scale do you want your shows to run? Who do you need to contact to make this happen? How much is it going to cost?

I'm sorry but attempting to set up a group via the medium of an internet forum is laughable.

rovert

the flananator wrote: »

Franklin, if you want to start up a new promotion fair play to you, but Boards.ie (or any internet forum for that matter) is a terrible, terrible place to start.

I agree

the flananator wrote: »

The vast majority of guys on here have never and will never be involved in the business.

the business

Here we go.

franklin25 this is typical of the us vs. them mentality you will come across as an outsider.

the flananator wrote: »

and as such most will try and suck you positivity out of you (though some fair points have been made here thus far).

Dont confuse postivity and naivety

the flananator wrote: »

I'm sorry but attempting to set up a group via the medium of an internet forum is laughable.

And not for building a decent reputation.

the flananator

franklin25 this is typical of the us vs. them mentality you will come across as an outsider.

What makes you think I'm an insider?

Dont confuse postivity and naivety

Unfortunetly rovert what you've failed to understand since you began posting here is that though often factually correct, you're posts usually come across as highly arrogant and demeaning. Though you are correct in saying that this franklin chap will need to know "exactly what he's doing", you come across with a pompousness more befitting of the f4w forums or whatever they're called.

My initial point was that franklin would be better of doing some market research by attending some shows and sitting in on some training sessions and making a few phone-calls to people who actually work/promote on the Irish scene rather can consult chaps like you on an internet forum who will come across as being THE authority on the subject despite having no real experience in the area.

rovert

the flananator wrote: »

What makes you think I'm an insider?.

the "the business" line

the flananator wrote: »

Unfortunetly rovert what you've failed to understand since you began posting here is that though often factually correct, you're posts usually come across as highly arrogant and demeaning. ?

Such as?

the flananator wrote: »

Though you are correct in saying that this franklin chap will need to know "exactly what he's doing", you come across with a pompousness more befitting of the f4w forums or whatever they're called.

How do you know what the f4w forums are like, I can tell you they are hardly pompous it actually makes fun of that trait. The statement "exactly what he's doing" doesnt come of as pompousness it is true has the wrestling business is a investment usaually low retrn business with a steep learning curve. I fail to see pompousness in that it was intended as strictly advice. Stop making irrational, groundless statements about me. Either actually back up (you know stuff I actually wrote not the stuff in your head) what you say or lay the **** off me.

the flananator wrote: »

My initial point was that franklin would be better of doing some market research by attending some shows and sitting in on some training sessions and making a few phone-calls to people who actually work/promote on the Irish scene rather can consult chaps like you on an internet forum who will come across as being THE authority on the subject despite having no real experience in the area.

Which I say I agreed with if in fact you actually read my posts. But I don’t come across as THE authority on the subject again you make more groundless statements attacking me. I do at least know people in the Irish & UK scene, I own a business and Ive promoted concerts in the past. The Wrestling business is the most unique business in the world there is more to it than just doing market research. Have you ever written a real business plan the flananator?

the flananator

the "the business" line

Wrestling is "a business" though, is it not?

Such as?

If you want my advice is either train to be a wrestler or just buy Total Extreme Wrestling for the PC and live out life as a promoter there.

How do you know what the f4w forums are like, I can tell you they are hardly pompous it actually makes fun of that trait. The statement "exactly what he's doing" doesnt come of as pompousness it is true has the wrestling business is a investment usaually low retrn business with a steep learning curve. I fail to see pompousness in that it was intended as strictly advice. Stop making irrational, groundless statements about me. Either actually back up (you know stuff I actually wrote not the stuff in your head) what you say or lay the **** off me.

I had to read this twice to understand what you were saying due to all the grammatical and spelling errors, but just a couple of things; 'The statement "exactly what he's doing" doesn’t come of as pompousness...', as author of that statement you are unfortunately not in a position to decree whether or not it comes across as pompous or not to me, the reader. Sorry.

"I fail to see pompousness in that it was intended as strictly advice." Well, my question would be what gives you the grounds to advise anyone on how to start up a wrestling company in the Irish market, since you have no experience in the area? This directly relates to my criticism of Franklin seeking advice on an internet forum in the 1st place.

But I don’t come across as THE authority on the subject

No, you certainly don't. But its seems to me like you certainly try to.

I own a business and Ive promoted concerts in the past. The Wrestling business is the most unique business in the world there is more to it than just doing market research. Have you ever written a real business plan the flananator?

The point you are trying to make is lost on me here, I'm afraid. First you plug your business acumen but then admit it counts for nothing in this context as the wrestling business is totally unique, thus backing up my point that a fledgling promoter should be weary of your advice. Then you start going on about a business plan, suggesting at some point I said Franklin would not need a business plan, which of course I did not. Market research should come first, and once its established that there is a demand in the market for your product, a business plan should follow thereafter.

rovert

Flan, if someone thinks they can naively start up a wrestling promotion/school with no working knowledge or contacts in the industry via an internet forum they are likely a fantasist.

I am in position to say whether or not "exactly what he's doing" comes across as pompous or not, it doesnt. As wrestling promoting does have a steep learning curve, needing a large amount of capital and entails a high risk of return ratio. In an industry like that you do need to know exactly what you are doing or you will lose a lot of money, simple as. It is one of the hardest businesses to suceed at.

To answer your question “what gives you the grounds to advise anyone on how to start up a wrestling company in the Irish market.” I have studied the history and business workings more than I would care to admit. That is not to say I know everything nor do I or ever have held myself up as an authority on it. But I do know the most common, basic mistakes.

the flananator wrote: »

The point you are trying to make is lost on me here, I'm afraid. First you plug your business acumen but then admit it counts for nothing in this context as the wrestling business is totally unique, thus backing up my point that a fledgling promoter should be weary of your advice.

Vince McMahon and Dixie Carter cut their teeth in live event promotion before entering Wrestling. They learned a lot of skills which proved useful before entering into Wrestling. Upon entering wrestling they in fact encountered new and unique challenges. I never admitted prior/other business experience counts for nothing and please quote me if I did.

the flananator wrote: »

Market research should come first, and once its established that there is a demand in the market for your product, a business plan should follow thereafter.

Not necessarily true as this concept is more reliant on feasibility over demand in my opinion. It is an asset business whether it is knowledge, labour, experience or capital.

the flananator

I am in position to say whether or not "exactly what he's doing" comes across as pompous or not

As I've indicated with a previous quotation, the "exactly what he's doing" line wasn't what I was calling pompous. It was really more of a dig at your attitude in general. And I maintain you are not in a position to judge how you come across.

Vince McMahon and Dixie Carter cut their teeth in live event promotion before entering Wrestling.

But were they offering people advice on entering the wrestling business at this point? I doubt it. Maybe you know more than them, after all, you have "studied the business"...

Not necessarily true as this concept is more reliant on feasibility over demand in my opinion

Feasibility directly relates to demand.

Rovert I'm sure we could argue all day but this is how it is; this Franklin dude came on here looking for advice on setting up a promotion, and I made a comment warning him off taking advice from fans on a wrestling forum with no prior experience in the area, which for some reason you took at a dig at you. It wasn't.

Franklin, I wish you luck with your group, although I imagine you've been well scared off at this point. My only advice to you would be that if you must set-up another training school in the Dublin area, please make it a good one.

rovert

the flananator wrote: »

As I've indicated with a previous quotation, the "exactly what he's doing" line wasn't what I was calling pompous. It was really more of a dig at your attitude in general. And I maintain you are not in a position to judge how you come across.

But were they offering people advice on entering the wrestling business at this point? I doubt it. Maybe you know more than them, after all, you have "studied the business"...

Feasibility directly relates to demand.

Please stop selectively quoting from me and twisting what I say to meet your own means. You've clearly havent taken in the majority of what I said, yet you say Im the one with the attitude? Your view of me is totally irrational as you've been more hostile to me in this thread than Ive been to you.

the flananator

rovert wrote: »

Please stop selectively quoting from me and twisting what I say to meet your own means. You've clearly havent taken in the majority of what I said, yet you say Im the one with the attitude? Your view of me is totally irrational as you've been more hostile to me in this thread than Ive been to you.

Anything I've quoted I've disagreed with, if I didn't quote other parts of your argument, then I likely agreed with what you were saying. As I've said before, most of what you say is factually correct. For example, your advice that Franklin should know exactly what he's doing before he starts is bang on.

rovert

the flananator wrote: »

Anything I've quoted I've disagreed with, if I didn't quote other parts of your argument, then I likely agreed with what you were saying. As I've said before, most of what you say is factually correct. For example, your advice that Franklin should know exactly what he's doing before he starts is bang on.

So how you disagree with what Ive bolded and agree with what I didnt bold when it is all part of the same point:

rovert wrote: »

Vince McMahon and Dixie Carter cut their teeth in live event promotion before entering Wrestling. They learned a lot of skills which proved useful before entering into Wrestling. Upon entering wrestling they in fact encountered new and unique challenges. I never admitted prior/other business experience counts for nothing and please quote me if I did.

You did totally twist what I said here:
Not necessarily true as this concept is more reliant on feasibility over demand in my opinion. It is an asset business whether it is knowledge, labour, experience or capital.

In addition to writing:

the flananator wrote: »

But were they offering people advice on entering the wrestling business at this point? I doubt it. Maybe you know more than them, after all, you have "studied the business"...

While I actually wrote:

rovert wrote: »

To answer your question “what gives you the grounds to advise anyone on how to start up a wrestling company in the Irish market.” I have studied the history and business workings more than I would care to admit. That is not to say I know everything nor do I or ever have held myself up as an authority on it. But I do know the most common, basic mistakes.

Yet again but Im one with an attitude? Stop trying to demonised me or mischaracterise my postion on things, Flan.

the flananator

rovert wrote: »

So how you disagree with what Ive bolded and agree with what I didnt bold when it is all part of the same point:



In addition to writing:


While I actually wrote:


Yet again but Im one with an attitude? Stop trying to demonised me or mischaracterise my postion on things, Flan.

Oh man we're going round in circles here. I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.

Vince McMahon and Dixie Carter cut their teeth in live event promotion before entering Wrestling. They learned a lot of skills which proved useful before entering into Wrestling. Upon entering wrestling they in fact encountered new and unique challenges. I never admitted prior/other business experience counts for nothing and please quote me if I did.

Ok. I will speak slowly. My point was that I didn't care what kind of experience you've had in business/promoting as it didn't qualify you to advise some guy on the Irish wrestling biz. You countered that by likening yourself to a young Vince McMahon/Dixie Carter. I said that that didn't matter a f-uck, as they weren't advising people on how to break into the business at that early point in heir careers, wheras you are. Everyting else;

They learned a lot of skills which proved useful before entering into Wrestling. Upon entering wrestling they in fact encountered new and unique challenges. I never admitted prior/other business experience counts for nothing and please quote me if I did

...is completley irrelevant to the discussion we're having (which, just to remind you, is whether or not you're qualified to advise young Franklin. You're not.)

And as for this;

You did totally twist what I said here:
Not necessarily true as this concept is more reliant on feasibility over demand in my opinion. It is an asset business whether it is knowledge, labour, experience or capital.

...I really have no idea what you're trying to achieve by posting this. Its pretty much jargon from your Tallaght IT business note-book. All I'm saying is that Franklin needs to do some serious market research, and you start going on about business plans etc...note to Rovert, he hasn't even figured out yet if there is a demand for his product!

rovert

the flananator wrote: »

Oh man we're going round in circles here. I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.

You clearly twisted nearly everything I said to meet your own ends simple as. So my last post called you on that.

the flananator wrote: »

Ok. I will speak slowly. My point was that I didn't care what kind of experience you've had in business/promoting as it didn't qualify you to advise some guy on the Irish wrestling biz. You countered that by likening yourself to a young Vince McMahon/Dixie Carter. I said that that didn't matter a f-uck, as they weren't advising people on how to break into the business at that early point in heir careers, wheras you are. Everyting else; ...is completley irrelevant to the discussion we're having (which, just to remind you, is whether or not you're qualified to advise young Franklin. You're not.)]

That wasnt my counter to your question, please actually read my actual responses before going on attack mode. I didnt liken myself to Vince McMahon/Dixie Carter either, quote me where I did. This the entire paragraph of what are referring to, on a side note this was replying to you saying I said outside business experience counts for nothing, when if fact I didnt. Yet you complain we are going around in circles:

rovert wrote: »

Vince McMahon and Dixie Carter cut their teeth in live event promotion before entering Wrestling. They learned a lot of skills which proved useful before entering into Wrestling. Upon entering wrestling they in fact encountered new and unique challenges. I never admitted prior/other business experience counts for nothing and please quote me if I did.

the flananator wrote: »

And as for this;

...I really have no idea what you're trying to achieve by posting this. Its pretty much jargon from your Tallaght IT business note-book. All I'm saying is that Franklin needs to do some serious market research, and you start going on about business plans etc...note to Rovert, he hasn't even figured out yet if there is a demand for his product!

You call me pompous and having an attitude, look in the mirror. Ive never talked to someone on here the way you have to me. Look at yourself before point the finger. There is likely demand (the extent is the question) but the overheads are too high and Ireland has a high cost base in relatively small market and only one insurance company covers Wrestling in Ireland, is that jargon free enough for you? Running on any scale of operation is not totally feasible.

the flananator

You clearly twisted nearly everything I said to meet your own ends simple as. So my last post called you on that.

I've twisted nothing. I haven't needed to. My point is simple; Franklin could do better than take the advice ofthe likes of you. Any counter-argument you've put against me I've picked apart, but in your world that equates me "twisting things". Whatever. :rolleyes:

I didnt liken myself to Vince McMahon/Dixie Carter either, quote me where I did.

Ah but you did;

this was replying to you saying I said outside business experience counts for nothing, when if fact I didnt

When I said outside business experience counted for nothing, this was in response to you, rovert, claiming you're business experience left you in a strong position to advise Franklin. You then said it did count for something, pointing at Vince and Dixie. Hence, you did liken yourself to Vince and Dixie, otherwise why would you bring them up in an argument about your right to advise someone on promoting?


Look Rovert, I say you should'nt be offering pearls of wisdom about something you know feck-all about (I don't care how many of Meltzer's newsletters you've read), and you've posted nothing to convince me otherwise. I'm done. Have a productive day.

Luas Lane

Will you to guys PLEASE get a room!!!!

rovert

the flananator wrote: »

I've twisted nothing. I haven't needed to. My point is simple; Franklin could do better than take the advice ofthe likes of you. Any counter-argument you've put against me I've picked apart, but in your world that equates me "twisting things". Whatever. :rolleyes::)

You did twist things as my previous post clearly shows.

the flananator wrote: »

When I said outside business experience counted for nothing, this was in response to you, rovert, claiming you're business experience left you in a strong position to advise Franklin.

I never said that what I said was:

rovert wrote: »

Which I say I agreed with if in fact you actually read my posts. But I don’t come across as THE authority on the subject again you make more groundless statements attacking me. I do at least know people in the Irish & UK scene, I own a business and Ive promoted concerts in the past. The Wrestling business is the most unique business in the world there is more to it than just doing market research. Have you ever written a real business plan the flananator?

rovert wrote: »

Vince McMahon and Dixie Carter cut their teeth in live event promotion before entering Wrestling. They learned a lot of skills which proved useful before entering into Wrestling. Upon entering wrestling they in fact encountered new and unique challenges. I never admitted prior/other business experience counts for nothing and please quote me if I did.

Both were completely different points in different posts and you’ve yet quoted me where I said prior/other business experience counts for nothing, as I never said it. All I said was Wrestling is a totally unique business, which it is.

the flananator wrote: »

You then said it did count for something, pointing at Vince and Dixie. Hence, you did liken yourself to Vince and Dixie, otherwise why would you bring them up in an argument about your right to advise someone on promoting?

Again I never said prior/other business experience counts for nothing, all I said was Wrestling is an unique business.

the flananator wrote: »

The point you are trying to make is lost on me here, I'm afraid. First you plug your business acumen but then admit it counts for nothing in this context as the wrestling business is totally unique, thus backing up my point that a fledgling promoter should be weary of your advice.

My point should be fairly clearly as I’ve already said twice in this thread alone. A fledging promoter should be weary of all advice in fairness that is also true for any businessman. Look at Jay Hassman situation and NWATNA for example.

the flananator wrote: »

Then you start going on about a business plan, suggesting at some point I said Franklin would not need a business plan, which of course I did not. Market research should come first, and once its established that there is a demand in the market for your product, a business plan should follow thereafter.

It is my consistent contention is that serving ANY demand isnt really feasible in Ireland. Got it?

the flananator wrote: »

Look Rovert, I say you should'nt be offering pearls of wisdom about something you know feck-all about (I don't care how many of Meltzer's newsletters you've read), and you've posted nothing to convince me otherwise. I'm done. Have a productive day.

You are contradicting yourself here as you said previously:

the flananator wrote: »

Anything I've quoted I've disagreed with, if I didn't quote other parts of your argument, then I likely agreed with what you were saying. As I've said before, most of what you say is factually correct. For example, your advice that Franklin should know exactly what he's doing before he starts is bang on.

The Observer is the trade publication read by upper management all major Pro Wrestling & MMA promotions. Many of those people speak to Dave on a weekly basis at least including people from Gabe Sapolsky to Dana White and that has been the case for over 25 years, I think he knows a fair bit on the subject. If your view of that publication is that dim then you’ve probably never read it. Saying that the Observer isnt my only reference for the industry.

Otis Driftwood

I bet poor Franklin wishes he didnt bother now.


My take on it would be,both Trevor and the Flanator make good points,just cut away the willy waving and there is some sound advice there.

Now wheres VR! to make this a 3 way dance.

LOLZ.

the flananator

nedtheshed wrote: »

Now wheres VR! to make this a 3 way dance.

My thoughts exactly. He loves a good willy waving.

rovert

the flananator wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. He loves a good willy waving.

The way you twist things it would be Puppetry of the Penis. :pac:

the flananator

rovert wrote: »

The way you twist things it would be Puppetry of the Penis. :pac:

Oh ho ho ho, you. *pinches cheek*

Otis Driftwood

ROTFL.

You guys crack me up.

ShawnRaven

nedtheshed wrote: »

Now wheres VR! to make this a 3 way dance.

LOLZ.

Sunning myself in Italy while you sit on an internet forum laughing at your own jokes.

VR!

ShawnRaven

the flananator wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. He loves a good willy waving.

Lol just because you drop your standards and would bone Ashley Masarro, and then bitch about me for not lowering myself to do the same, does not make me a willy waver, for the record.

VR!

kyp_durron

rovert wrote: »

The way you twist things it would be Puppetry of the Penis. :pac:

Quoting awesomesause.

the flananator

validreasoning! wrote: »

Lol just because you drop your standards and would bone Ashley Masarro, and then bitch about me for not lowering myself to do the same, does not make me a willy waver, for the record.

VR!

Italy must be freakin' awesome if you can find the time to post here....:p

ShawnRaven

the flananator wrote: »

Italy must be freakin' awesome if you can find the time to post here....:p

Given that it was about 3.30-4am over here at the time i posted it, and i was still awake and everywhere else was closed, I figured i'd see what I had missed.

My guess was confirmed... nothing much!
VR!