Sliding folding doors

MD1

We are in the process of building our house at the moment. I have my heart set on glass folding sliding doors for an opening 5.6m wide & 2.4m high. We have a builder looking after our build and the window company doing the windows has indicated that external bi-fold doors are not a good option in this case. The rep said that they are draughty and not 100% storm proof. He suggested sliding doors but the maximum opening he can give us is 2m. We have a 1.5m roof overhang above where these doors would be which I feel would offer a certain degree of protection from the elements. Has anyone experience of external folding glass doors? I find it hard to believe they are so draughty.... they seem to be quite popular at the moment. I am a little worried that I am being spun a story to steer me away from a product that this company obviously doesn't make! Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

bauderline

You can get good quality doors for this purpose that will not let in any drafts, but I warn you now they are not cheap !!

You can go with VuFold doors for about the third of the price but they are limited to incremental steps of fixed sizes and I am not sure how draught proof they are. Maybe others can comment.

I will PM you the details of a supplier I am considering....

P.

NickTellis

I'm also interested in getting a 2.3 x 2.1 metre Vu-Fold door so I'd be interested to hear peoples comments on them especially in relation to draughts and heat retention.

blackiebest

I am in the window business.

You can get what you are looking for and it will not be draughty. 5600 w x 2400mm is on the extremes however, mainly for transport reasons as opposed to manufacture. Slide fold units are really 'big windows' as opposed to doors and accordingly are manufactured using the window profile. These units can not be flush with finished floor as they use the bottom profile from the windows however this is what makes it so weather proof.

It must installed correctly, plump level and true, and well regulated after the house has come up to temp. These units, despite having many moving parts, give very little trouble once the operator knows how to operate it. For a unit this size you would need at least 6 leaves and probably better to have 3 slide right and 3 slide left.

They are not madly expensive but are only as good as how they are both installed and operated. <SNIP>



Blackie.


www.truewindows.ie

muffler

blackiebest wrote: »

I am in the window business.

You can get what you are looking for and it will not be draughty. 5600 w x 2400mm is on the extremes however, mainly for transport reasons as opposed to manufacture. Slide fold units are really 'big windows' as opposed to doors and accordingly are manufactured using the window profile. These units can not be flush with finished floor as they use the bottom profile from the windows however this is what makes it so weather proof.

It must installed correctly, plump level and true, and well regulated after the house has come up to temp. These units, despite having many moving parts, give very little trouble once the operator knows how to operate it. For a unit this size you would need at least 6 leaves and probably better to have 3 slide right and 3 slide left.

They are not madly expensive but are only as good as how they are both installed and operated. <SNIP>



Blackie.


www.truewindows.ie

Blackie, please refrain from touting for business. The link in your sig is sufficient.

Otherwise a good post.

MD1

Thanks for your reply blackie. I have found a company that will supply and fit exactly what I am looking for in an alu finish. The product has been tested against wind and rain and seems to weather very well. Going to have a look at it tomorrow ...if anyone wants any details PM me and I will forward on company contact details. M

Smirky

I didthis exact job about 6 months ago. Whole back of house is glass sliding / folding doors. 1 set for bedroom 1 set for kitchen both going out to garden. Approx €10,000. Used same company for internal frosted winow panels, front door & new windows for entire house. All in budget was €20K inc vat & fitting.

<SNIP>

PM me if you want to havea chat about the pros & cons plus my experience of both the doors & the company.



Mod edit: No names please - read the charter.

MD1

Visited a company in West Dublin today to look at their sliding folding door. I was very impressed with the quality of the product: very solid, strong heavy doors that glide open easily. They had plenty of documentation showing the testing which the doors went through for weathering etc. including 120mph winds & driving rain.

As well as folding flat leaving the space completely open the 2 centre doors (in a centrally opening unit) can open like french doors also, which I thought was good for cooler days. I thought the handles were a little flimsy and 'delicate' looking but I was assured that they have presented no problems as of yet. I suppose if you know how to open the unit and the handle is used correctly it would not pose a problem but I don't think it would take much to brerak it!

All components like rolling mechanism, seals, locks etc are available as spare parts should they be required. They have a 15 yr guarantee with 5 yrs on components as mentioned above. The are available in any colour you could think of! This company has only been making this prduct in Irl since Jan 2008 so haven't gone through an Irish winter yet but with the weather we've been having lately, i'd say it couldn't get much worse in terms of wind and rain!

I've been given all the documentation re engineering /technical end of the door construction etc to my builder for perusal but think I would be happy to put them in. Its working out at c. €10,000 for a 5.6m X 2.4 opening. (Extra for tinted glass) Not cheap but its a big opening and I think it will be worth it!

Will post any further details

MD

bauderline

Any more snipping muffler and I'll expect to see you in hostel 3 ....

P.

Smirky

Apols muffler, missed that one. Thanks for the edit.

blackiebest

MD1, can you elaborate a bit on what you are buying for 10k, is it prue Aluminium or Alu/Wood combianation, if the latter what type of wood, probably is pine but do you know if it is finger jointed or not? Does that 10k include full service i.e. onsite measure, manufacture deliver and installation? Would appreciate these details, thanks.

If it is in ALu/wood then it is a fair price.

Regards,

Blackie.

MD1

No wood, just alu with powder coat finish in our choice of colour. I expect it to come in just under 10,000 for the whole lot: site visit, measuring, supply, installation & vat. Tinted glass would be extra but we're not going for that. (Unit has a U-value of 1.5)

blackiebest

Good U-Value for unit. Must be a funky Alu profile. Best of luck with it but I still say wood is better option, Ral painted if neccessary but I would say that would'nt I;)

Would be interested to see the step detail though so if possible PM me the technical links,

Blackie.

MD1

My 'technical stuff' is currently with the builder! But there are some details on the website. While I love the use of wood and think it looks beautiful I would just be a little wary as it would be more likely to shirink or warp and other scary words like that....! And with the size of this door unit I want to keep risk to a minimum. Do you know if this type of door is available in an alu clad timber frame...and if so would it be twice the price?!
PS The step detail is really only the door being flush with the interior floor level and the decking outside being 5mm lower

muffler

bauderline wrote: »

Any more snipping muffler and I'll expect to see you in hostel 3 ....

P.

I only do this modding lark as a pass time. Vasectomies are my specialty in the day job

blackiebest

MD1, I hear your worries about wood but in normal circumstances you would have no issue. The most common problems with an opening 5600 wide would probably be fitting. Large frame moving units must be plumb, Level and True or 'in twist' in order for the mechanisims to function as designed. Mechanical anchors are required throughout the frame every 600mm. If this is the case all should be fine.

However the other thing to really be carefull of is a deflection in the 5900mm (minimum) lintel (probably steel) that will be holding everything up. While not an engineer I think it is common for up to 10mm deflection on such lintels and this can compress the frame in the middle leaving far from satisfactory function of your slide/fold unit. Be careful about this, dont just take the word of the builder, I am involved in exactly such a situation in a very expensive job in South Dublin, The units dont work and have had to have sashes planed to achieve function, because the lintel is bowed. This happened post installation of unit and now everyone is pointing fingers and the clients very pi**ed off. Big openings are cool but only when they work.

Regarding costs, 10k would be a very good price, for the supplier, if manufactured in Alu/wood.

I am genuinely suprised at an overall U-Value unit of 1.5. I suspect they are using Argon filled 'toughened' as opposed to laminated glass. The Alu profile must be very sophiscated to deliver such low value! Be careful to avoid scratches if glass is toughened, will scratch if you look at it:) and really not as good IMO as laminated.

If you could pm me company link I will appreciate it.

Regards,

Blackie.


www.truewindows.ie

chopchopdigdig

Smirky wrote: »

I didthis exact job about 6 months ago. Whole back of house is glass sliding / folding doors. 1 set for bedroom 1 set for kitchen both going out to garden. Approx €10,000. Used same company for internal frosted winow panels, front door & new windows for entire house. All in budget was €20K inc vat & fitting.

<SNIP>

PM me if you want to havea chat about the pros & cons plus my experience of both the doors & the company.



Mod edit: No names please - read the charter.

sorry people new to this, I'm building a new house at the minute just got a quote for Windows Black UPVC. but i have a 3.6 bi folding door i'm looking to get a few more quotes. How do i PM someone to find out details

Monty Gerhardy

blackiebest wrote: »

I am in the window business.

You can get what you are looking for and it will not be draughty. 5600 w x 2400mm is on the extremes however, mainly for transport reasons as opposed to manufacture. Slide fold units are really 'big windows' as opposed to doors and accordingly are manufactured using the window profile. These units can not be flush with finished floor as they use the bottom profile from the windows however this is what makes it so weather proof.

There are various different systems and many of them certainly can be made to be virtually flush with floor levels when you know what you are doing. You could easily increase the width of that unit four-fold in width before it reaches the extremes and transport is not an issue when the unit is assembled on site

Monty

Monty Gerhardy

blackiebest wrote: »

MD1, I hear your worries about wood but in normal circumstances you would have no issue. The most common problems with an opening 5600 wide would probably be fitting. Large frame moving units must be plumb, Level and True or 'in twist' in order for the mechanisims to function as designed. Mechanical anchors are required throughout the frame every 600mm. If this is the case all should be fine.

However the other thing to really be carefull of is a deflection in the 5900mm (minimum) lintel (probably steel) that will be holding everything up. While not an engineer I think it is common for up to 10mm deflection on such lintels and this can compress the frame in the middle leaving far from satisfactory function of your slide/fold unit. Be careful about this, dont just take the word of the builder, I am involved in exactly such a situation in a very expensive job in South Dublin, The units dont work and have had to have sashes planed to achieve function, because the lintel is bowed. This happened post installation of unit and now everyone is pointing fingers and the clients very pi**ed off. Big openings are cool but only when they work.

Regarding costs, 10k would be a very good price, for the supplier, if manufactured in Alu/wood.

I am genuinely suprised at an overall U-Value unit of 1.5. I suspect they are using Argon filled 'toughened' as opposed to laminated glass. The Alu profile must be very sophiscated to deliver such low value! Be careful to avoid scratches if glass is toughened, will scratch if you look at it:) and really not as good IMO as laminated.

If you could pm me company link I will appreciate it.

Regards,

Blackie.


www.truewindows.ie

Planing sashes sounds very dodgy. Frames, as distinct from sashes, should only be planed as a last resort. I would be surprised if so doing did not void the manufacturer’s warranty. Sounds like insufficient tolerances were allowed for in the structural opening.

You’re not really suggesting that using toughened glass as opposed to laminated glass in a unit will result in different thermal properties? Toughened glass is only very marginally more likely to scratch then float glass. Effectively anything you do to scratch toughened will scratch float. It’s not a question of laminated being better then toughened – there are good reasons for using one or the other depending on the circumstances.

You mentioned earlier in the thread that you were "in the window business" Anybody in your technical department should be able to help you on the glass issue.

Monty

smashey

chopchopdigdig wrote: »

sorry people new to this, I'm building a new house at the minute just got a quote for Windows Black UPVC. but i have a 3.6 bi folding door i'm looking to get a few more quotes. How do i PM someone to find out details

Click on their user name and there is an option in the drop down menu for sending a private message.

ardara1

MD1 wrote: »

Its working out at c. €10,000 for a 5.6m X 2.4 opening. (Extra for tinted glass) Not cheap but its a big opening and I think it will be worth it!

Will post any further details

MD

Have been quoted £1610 + Vat Sterling - for VUFOLD - 3 door system. : 6ft- 1790mm wide x 2090mm high - door width 560mm

PM me and I'll give you details (Supplier in the north)

Apip99

Hey guys and gals,

Just my 10 cents worth.

I built our extension last year and we wanted folding sliding doors, but were horrified at the Irish prices (no change there then) Any way after lots of reaserch I found a company in the UK, called the FoldingSliding Door Company. (Catchy name eh)

Any way, our doors are made up of 5 panels and the stretch is around 4.5 meters (from memory) They are timber with a Walnut finish, and we are delighted with them. And the price was very attractive as well. €7000.00 delivered.

They were a self install. But were relitivly easy for any one with some DIY back ground. They have step by step videos on their website.


We did have a couple of small problems mind. There was an issue with one of the locks not working. But I had a whole new fitting, with handles within 3 days.

The other problem we had was with water marks on the Windows. Now this has take a little bit of time to resolve as their old glass supplyer was refusing liability. But after a few calls, and emails the glass is being replaced at no cost to myself. (I know the bill is around €1200.00)

So would I buy from them again? Hell yes I would.

I understand that sometimes there are problems with products and as long as they are sorted out, then I can not fault the company.

Their web site is www.foldingslidingdoor.com

Best of luck. Here are couple of pictures for you. Closed, before garden was done, and open with the garden done.

http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c78/apip99/?action=view&current=DSCF0955.jpg

http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c78/apip99/?action=view&current=DSCF2522.jpg

Regards,

Pip

NickTellis

Hey Pip, did you go for the unfinished doors and how much did they charge for delivery?

Cork_Rebel

Anyone had good or bad experiences? They seem to bring great openess from the garden into a kitchen but have heard they are pricey.. any comments?

muffler

Post moved to existing thread on these doors.

biketique

Stay away from XXXXXXX, Northern Ireland whatever you do. They are agents for XXXXXX in the UK who sell a great door but their agent has no idea of customer service. Six months now and the Folding Sliding Door is still not finished.

muffler

biketique wrote: »

Stay away from XXXXXXX, Northern Ireland whatever you do. They are agents for XXXXXX in the UK who sell a great door but their agent has no idea of customer service. Six months now and the Folding Sliding Door is still not finished.

If that was the only reason for you to sign up then there is no hope for you here.

biketique

Cork Rebel asked a question and I gave him an honest answer based on experience!!!

muffler

biketique wrote: »

Cork Rebel asked a question and I gave him an honest answer based on experience!!!

He asked a question about their use in general - pros and cons. We dont need anyone posting a rant here about a particular company. Its not what the forum is all about.

Take a minute and read the forum charter which is stickied on the front page.

Sarah44

Hi all,
I am looking for th cheap way out to put in folding patio doors can you let me know if going to the north of ireland is cheaper then buying down south.
Also if there is any fitters on here with a good price for installing them i would be very interested. Thank you for any info