Jack Russell V's Hedgehog...

Muppet Man

I was cutting the lawn about 4 months back and my 5 year old jack russell was doing his usual bit hunting in the hedge (mostly wild briar bushes).

I thought he was trying to pull a stick or a rock out of the ditch (something he does quite a lot), but he seemed more determined than usual. My wife video'ed a bit of it on her phone.

I didnt pay much attention and after about 10 minutes, he pulled what I thought was a rock from the ditch, but he was still agitated. Cut a long story short, he had pulled out a hedgehog... I was totally astonished. The Jack Russell had left a hole in the ditch the like of which a mini-digger wouldnt have made...

The hedgehog had gone into a ball, and there was blood, grass, twigs, bits of trees stuck to his spines - I was sure he was dead. Holding the Jack Russell back, I realised the hedgehog was still breathing (I could barely see the ball of spines moving) and prodded him gently with a twig to see him twitch. It turned out the blood on his spines was from the Jack Russells mouth (I wonder why! ), though no serious damage done to dog and when I realised the hog was still alive, I relocated him to a ditch in a quiet forrested area not far away... I went back later that evening and he had moved on, so I was pleased that he had survived, albeit upset at having being pulled out of his bed while he was asleep...

How unusual is it for a dog to pull a hedgehog out of a ditch (successfully)?


Muppet Man.

peasant

Muppet Man wrote: »

How unusual is it for a dog to pull a hedgehog out of a ditch (successfully)?

The pulling bit wouldn't be unusual at all, any dog would do it, they all are (descended from) hunters after all.
The "successfully" bit is more unusual, as most observant owners would put an end to it soon enough and get the dog to leave the poor hog alone. (instead of filming it)

LadyTBolt

I don't think it is unusual, in fact I'm quite amused to learn our dog isn't the only dog out there who hunts for hedgehogs. I can't count the amount of times our lab over the last couple of years as come out of a field with a hedgehog in his mouth.

On one occassion, and I will never forget this, myself and my partner were out walking the dogs late in the evening. We were walking back towards home chatting away and the dogs were following behind. Next thing my partner gives out this roar and begins to fall, it was as if one of his legs gave out on him. I didn't know what happened. Next thing he turned the around and there was the lab sitting proud as punch with a hedgehog in his mouth. Didn't the dog come right up behind my partner and stick the hedgehog into the back of his leg. For about two weeks after my partner had these pin marks in the back of his leg and apparently they were quite sore. It was quite funny at the time.

It's nice to know though our dog isn't alone in what we call his 'hedgehog fetish'.

peasant

Conservation value
Some of the mammals known to, or likely to, occur within the SA study area are protected under the Wildlife and Amendment Acts, 1976 and 2000. These include all bat species, pygmy shrew,badger, hedgehog, and Irish stoat. ...
Under the legislation, it is an offence to intentionally interfere with, or destroy, the breeding or resting places of these species. ... The badger, hedgehog, Irish hare and otter are Red List species (Whilde, 1993).

from http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/PlanningItemsOnDisplay/PlanningItemsPreviouslyonDisplay/A-KPreviouslyonDisplay/AirportLAP-2nddisplay/FileDownload,8419,en.pdf

Page 6

Toulouse

Years ago when I was living with my ex we heard this almighty scream come from the kitchen. We rushed in to find his mother running about the place like a headless chicken and our little terrier sitting beside her chair, tail wagging, proud as punch.

Turned out he'd picked up a hedgehog and brought it in and left it on her chair for her. She of course was roaring the place down and the poor hedgie was in a ball. We brought him back outside and he wandered off a while later.

Ruby Soho

My greyhounds 'caught' a hedgehog one night. I was walking them along a hedgerow on leash when they both dived into the bushes and pulled something out. I was terrified that it was a cat or something, but then they went at it again and both pulled back quick as a flash yelping. They then proceeded to stare at it growling and playbowing, while urging eachother to swat it. They quickly decided that it wasn't going to play along, and lost interest.
Hedgehog was fine though

Warhammer

The reason why the hedgehog rolls into a ball is their own self defence way.
Any animal strange to hedgehogs will do shape change into a ball as its their natural way of hiding themselves from predators.

Muppet Man

"instead of filming it"

Just for the record, I didnt film the jack russell mauling a hedgehog, I filmed the jack russell stuck in a ditch being highly agitated. I didnt know it was a hedgehog at the time and I absolutely pulled the dog away for his safety and the hogs, when I realised what it was (when he had it out on the lawn).

Cheers
Muppet Man.

peasant

Muppet Man wrote: »

Just for the record, I didnt film the jack russell mauling a hedgehog, I filmed the jack russell stuck in a ditch being highly agitated. I didnt know it was a hedgehog at the time and I absolutely pulled the dog away for his safety and the hogs, when I realised what it was (when he had it out on the lawn).

Cheers
Muppet Man.

I never said anything about "mauling", did I? So don't put words in my mouth if you please.

Your Jack Russell seemingly is a house pet, not a working ratter/vermin killer.

So is ours. When she gets all excited about some other animal, we pull her away from it and THEN we find out what it was she got excited about (if we can)

Reason for doing that is that as a house pet we need to have some degree of control over her. That's difficult enough with a Terrier without letting them follow their strong hunting instincts whenever it pleases them.
Those uninterrupted ten minutes digging at the hedgehog probably were the most exciting and rewarding ten minutes your Jacky ever had.

Good luck with the recall next time when he discovers something else exciting that isn't as harmless as a hedgehog.

whitser

on an other note. you'll have to keep en eye on your russell now to make sure he doesnt get ring worm on his face. russells are very prone to catching this off hedgehogs. if you notice any scabs on his face get him to the vet for treatment.

token56

Meh my dogs are useless, they would bark at it all night but wouldn't go near it

Muppet Man

Thanks Whister - thats a great tip... appreciate the heads up...

Regards,
Muppet Man

ncmc

I thought he was trying to pull a stick or a rock out of the ditch (something he does quite a lot), but he seemed more determined than usual.

Give him a break Peasant, muppetman did not realise it was an animal the the dog was after, he thought he was just digging in the hedge. As soon as he realised what had happened, he rescued the hedgehog and left it out of harms way. What's the weather like up there on your high horse?

Illkillya

Had the same problem sometimes with jack russel and hedgehogs before... the dog will keep trying and trying to get to the hedgehog and the spikes can hurt his eyes.

peasant

ncmc wrote: »

Give him a break Peasant, muppetman did not realise it was an animal the the dog was after, he thought he was just digging in the hedge. As soon as he realised what had happened, he rescued the hedgehog and left it out of harms way. What's the weather like up there on your high horse?

Weather's beautiful up here (wish it was )

Assumption is the mother of all ****ups ...if you don't know what your dog is doing, go and check, don't assume.

It could have been poisoned fox bait or something else dangerous that it was going after there, how's that for a thought?

stevoman

Muppet Man wrote: »

I was cutting the lawn about 4 months back and my 5 year old jack russell was doing his usual bit hunting in the hedge (mostly wild briar bushes).

I thought he was trying to pull a stick or a rock out of the ditch (something he does quite a lot), but he seemed more determined than usual. My wife video'ed a bit of it on her phone.

I didnt pay much attention and after about 10 minutes, he pulled what I thought was a rock from the ditch, but he was still agitated. Cut a long story short, he had pulled out a hedgehog... I was totally astonished. The Jack Russell had left a hole in the ditch the like of which a mini-digger wouldnt have made...

The hedgehog had gone into a ball, and there was blood, grass, twigs, bits of trees stuck to his spines - I was sure he was dead. Holding the Jack Russell back, I realised the hedgehog was still breathing (I could barely see the ball of spines moving) and prodded him gently with a twig to see him twitch. It turned out the blood on his spines was from the Jack Russells mouth (I wonder why! ), though no serious damage done to dog and when I realised the hog was still alive, I relocated him to a ditch in a quiet forrested area not far away... I went back later that evening and he had moved on, so I was pleased that he had survived, albeit upset at having being pulled out of his bed while he was asleep...

How unusual is it for a dog to pull a hedgehog out of a ditch (successfully)?


Muppet Man.

what you just witnesse is pure nature. jack russells where bred for hunting rats and rabbits in ditches centuries before they became "pets" as we know them today.

Im afraid what your little terrier did was just his instict to do. he must be a fiesty little divil to get a hedgehog with all them spikes though!

Noopti

[yawn] Peasant constantly jumping down posters throats with accusations [/yawn]

It could have been poisoned fox bait or something else dangerous that it was going after there, how's that for a thought?

Here is another thought, the majority of people on this board care for their animals extremely well. Just because you have a holier than thou attitude doesn't give you the right to accuse/rant/insult them just because they didn't follow your personal little rules when it comes to caring for an animal. This person saw their dog digging under a bush, they filmed it, so what? It turned out to be a hedgehog which the person promptly check and released as soon as they realized. No harm done. Yes, you can conjecture and prophetize all you want about what "can happen", but it didn't. So let these people care for their animals in the loving manner I'm sure they do.
When someone comes on here with an obvious lack of care for their pets, by all means lecture and chastise, but until then please give people a bit of credit. You are a moderator, not a nanny.

whitser

theres a lot of that carry on,on this forum. i suppose some on here never made a mistake and knew everything from the start, where as us mere mortals had to learn as we go.
too much high-horsery imo.

peasant

Noopti wrote: »

This person saw their dog digging under a bush, they filmed it, so what? It turned out to be a hedgehog which the person promptly check and released as soon as they realized. No harm done.

No harm done?

What about fear and distress (hedgehog) and injury (Terrier)?

Muppet Man wrote: »

The Jack Russell had left a hole in the ditch the like of which a mini-digger wouldnt have made...

The hedgehog had gone into a ball, and there was blood, grass, twigs, bits of trees stuck to his spines - I was sure he was dead. ... It turned out the blood on his spines was from the Jack Russells mouth

whitser

they'll survive:rolleyes:

peasant

whitser wrote: »

they'll survive:rolleyes:

Yes they will.

The point I'm trying to make is about responsibility. The owner is responsible for the dog at all times. To ensure that no harm comes to it and it doesn't afflict harm on anyone/anything else.

This is a minor case, and there was no real harm done ...but it could easily have ended differently.

As I've said before ...assumption is the mother of all ****ups ...don't assume that everything is alrigtht ...make sure it is. (and then film it, if you have to )

Noopti

but it could easily have ended differently.

And if me aunt had a c*ck she'd be me uncle! :eek:

If this person had posted about knowingly videoing their Jack Russell attacking a hedgehog, I like everyone else here, would be abhorred! But they didn't, once they realised what was happening they put a stop to it. So what is the point in conjecturing about what could have happened? You are "assuming" that the person has no control over their dog.

stevoman

Noopti wrote: »

And if me aunt had a c*ck she'd be me uncle! :eek:

.

LOL :P

peasant

Noopti wrote: »

If this person had posted about knowingly videoing their Jack Russell attacking a hedgehog, I like everyone else here, would be abhorred!.

Ahh ... I see.
Not knowing what your dog is up to is the perfect excuse/defense then?

You are "assuming" that the person has no control over their dog.

I'm assuming no such thing. Fact is they chose not to excercise that control.

whitser

his russell was hunting around in a hedge,like they do. are you supposed to check every time your terrier starts scracthing around in a bush:eek:.
whats it like to be perfect and right all the time?

peasant

whitser wrote: »

whats it like to be perfect and right all the time?

Nobody is ...one should try though and not just dismiss it.

The thing with dogs is that while you have to learn to trust them to a certain extent (and they you) you can never be sure that they won't be doing something unbelievably stupid or dangerous witin the next second.

An over-eager dog could seriously injure itself going after a hedgehog ...even a seemingly harmless dig around the hedges could have consequences. As a dog owner you just have to be vigilant.

stevoman

peasant wrote: »

The thing with dogs is that while you have to learn to trust them to a certain extent (and they you) you can never be sure that they won't be doing something unbelievably stupid or dangerous witin the next second.

An over-eager dog could seriously injure itself going after a hedgehog ...even a seemingly harmless dig around the hedges could have consequences. As a dog owner you just have to be vigilant.

well if he does injure himself then he'l learn his lesson not go doing the same thing twice as quick then dont you think. if everyone who had a dog was to be this vigilante, sure you wouldnt even have time in your life for your kids.

peasant

stevoman wrote: »

well if he does injure himself then he'l learn his lesson not go doing the same thing twice as quick then dont you think.

That is the problem right there ...dogs don't always learn their lesson. Ohh ...they'll learn very quickly how to steal food from your table, I grant you that, or how to avoid punishment by producing that innocent look.

But when it comes to the hard lessons they can be really daft. Once the instincts take over (and the hunting instinct would be the strongest/most dangerous one of those) all sense and lessons learned go out the window.

Why do you think that there are three legged dogs out there (those that had serious road accidents) that are still chasing cars? Because they haven't learned a thing ...that's why.

stevoman

peasant wrote: »

Why do you think that there are three legged dogs out there (those that had serious road accidents) that are still chasing cars? Because they haven't learned a thing ...that's why.

We cared for a three legged dog that lost it to a car and he never went near a car again. i have seen dogs that have been hit by eletric fences and not go next or near one again. I have even seen a dog that a pallet fell on one day when he was foostering around it and by god everytime he sees a pallet now he runs. i jus dont beleive that you should be so vigilant when your dog is beating a bit of cover. dogs will be dogs.

whitser

russells and hedgehogs are much tougher then you give them credit for. the dog was only doing what comes natural. if he was digging at a rat this wouldnt even be an issue. fact is with dogs you cant watch them every second, especially a terrier thats rumageing in a ditch. both dog and hog will be grand. and these things happen,simple as that.
a dog hasnt been whelped that never got into some sort of scrap or incident..same as a man hasnt been born that didnt fcuk up occassionly.
so stop with the moral crusade.

whitser

if you own a terrier especially a hunting type like a russell you going to have stuff like this happen, unless he's never out of the house or of a lead. thats why terriers are such goood craic, they're little fcukers. i love em i do.

peasant

Surely, dogs will be dogs and they will get up to mischief and you can't stand over them all them time ...but IF you're standing there right next to it while it goes into a digging/hunting/running/whatever frenzy, you might as well take the bother to check what it's actually up to and stop it if it's up to no good.

That's not really asking too much now, is it?


sin e

Muppet Man

Wow... I never thought such an inoccuous post would generate 30 odd responses. Thanks to everyone...

Peasant, I get what youre saying, really I do... it boils down to being more vigilant when the dog is out an about. I'll take that on the chin, but as pointed out, its his nature to rummage in ditches/holes. So by and large I'm not going to try and sanitize what comes natural to him as long as I'm confident it wont do too much damage to himself.

I do worry alright about bushes and thorns in his eyes... and he's never out of my sight... I'm being as vigilant as I can, without turning him into softie ;-)

Thanks again all,
Muppet Man.