Another positive test from TdF?

penexpers

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/aug08/aug08news

Fifth positive possible from Tour

After results of the doping controls made at the Tour de France were made public by the French Anti-doping Agency (ALFD) on Thursday, a possible fifth doping positive has been inferred from the results by several media outlets. The AFLD announced that it had found 22 abnormal results from 13 riders out of the hundreds of controls taken during the Tour.

Of those 'abnormal' results, six riders returned positives for glucocorticosteroids but were covered by a therapeutic use exemption (TUE) by either the UCI or the AFLD. One rider, who was not identified, tested positive for the same substance but was not covered by an exemption, leading to speculation that this could be announced as a failed doping control by the AFLD.

Two others were found to have beta-2 antagonists (asthma medications) in their sample, but both had TUEs.

The remaining abnormal controls were made public during the Tour de France: the EPO positives of Manuel Beltran, Moises Dueñas and Riccardo Riccò accounted for four abnormal tests, while the stimulant heptaminol detected in Dmitri Fofonov's urine was found twice.

The AFLD also revealed that 76 of the 180 riders who started the Tour had a TUE for at least one drug.

Chips Lovell

Saw that alright. I think glucocorticosteroids include anti-inflamatories and possibly even asthma inhalers. Could be someone doping, but it also could be someone who forgot to get a TUE for something too.

Chips Lovell

It's Jimmy Casper:

Frenchman Jimmy Casper (Agritubel) was named Saturday as the rider who tested positive for glucocorticoids during the Tour de France, one of seven riders to be found with the drug in his system but the only one who did not carry a Therapeutic Use Exemption for the drug. Casper blamed an error in his paperwork for the problem, and said he did not use the drug for performance enhancement, but to treat his asthma.

Hermy

What is it with cyclists and asthma? Is it a hazard of the sport that being out there in all sorts of weather leaves one prone to breathing ailments or is it just another pathetic excuse to cover up illegal use of deconjestants?

stuf

Hermy wrote: »

What is it with cyclists and asthma? Is it a hazard of the sport that being out there in all sorts of weather leaves one prone to breathing ailments or is it just another pathetic excuse to cover up illegal use of deconjestants?

You'll find that the incidence of asthma in most professional sports is over 90% - slightly higher than that in the normal population. It's one of the things that gets me when "clean" athletes get all self-righteous about the "cheats" never mind whatever other "supplements" they are or have taken in the case of retired athletes.

Fion_McCool

stuf wrote: »

You'll find that the incidence of asthma in most professional sports is over 90% - slightly higher than that in the normal population.

Are you sure about those statistics ?

8 out of 10 of my friends do not have asthma...

blorg

I started to develop serious breathing problems this year myself- first year I have been really pushing myself (I was doing the distances and the hills last year but not so fast.) If I was pegging it around a course I would get to the point where I really had trouble getting the breaths in. Happened on Slieve Maan in the W200 and on a few of the Boards spins. It didn't stop me getting to the top of Slieve Maan handily enough but obviously it is annoying and uncomfortable not to be able to breathe, throat would get very constricted.

Doctor prescribed Ventolin inhaler (salbutamol), has completely fixed the problem. It fixes my breathing which obviously is a help but I don't know that it really "enhances my performance" otherwise. Just makes cycling that bit more pleasant/comfortable.

Had asthma as a child and still have chronic hayfever which doc reckoned was related.

Hope this doesn't put me down as "drug cheat Blorg"

ROK ON

Fion_McCool wrote: »

Are you sure about those statistics ?

8 out of 10 of my friends do not have asthma...

the incidence of asthma in pro sports is off the radar screens high. A real 5 or 6 std.dev event. In rugby a few years ago Munster & Ireland hooker tested positive for salbutumol after a Munster Toulouse game. He did not have TUE. Claimed that he failed to fill the form out appropriately I think. However, during his defence almost the entire English pack came out and supported him. He had support from an amazing amount of pro rugby players, all of whom were asthmatic. I played rugby from age of 8to 20 and very rarely encountered an ahsmatic.

Fion_McCool

I was not disputing your figures for the use of bronchodilators in sportsmen, but your assertion that sports persons incidence of asthma was "slightly higher than that in the normal population."

As far as I know asthma affects approx 10% to 15% of most populations.

The use of bronchodilators in 90% of sports people sounds like legalised doping to me, unless most athletes are drawn from that unfortunate 10% of the population with asthma.

:-/

stuf

Fion_McCool wrote: »

I was not disputing your figures for the use of bronchodilators in sportsmen, but your assertion that sports persons incidence of asthma was "slightly higher than that in the normal population."

As far as I know asthma affects approx 10% to 15% of most populations.

The use of bronchodilators in 90% of sports people sounds like legalised doping to me, unless most athletes are drawn from that unfortunate 10% of the population with asthma.

:-/

erm - that was sarcasm. They have tame doctors who certify they have asthma. It's common practice in most professional sports and in my opinion is just one aspect of why WADA's war on drugs is just filled to the brim with hypocrisy

TinyExplosions

blorg wrote: »

Hope this doesn't put me down as "drug cheat Blorg"

Now we know why he's so fast -it's the performance enhancing drugs!

Chips Lovell

Exercise-induced asthma

petethedrummer

I may be wrong, but I don't think relieving/blue/Ventolin inhalers contain any steroids.

The preventitive/brown ones that you take everyday like Becotide do.

I had mild asthma as a kid which very very rarely re-occurs, except today when I couldn't pedal for sh!t. :mad:

Chips Lovell

Now Maribel Moreno has tested positive for EPO at the Olympics.

blorg

petethedrummer wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I don't think relieving/blue/Ventolin inhalers contain any steroids.

The preventitive/brown ones that you take everyday like Becotide do.

I had mild asthma as a kid which very very rarely re-occurs, except today when I couldn't pedal for sh!t. :mad:

It's not the steroids, salbutamol (the active ingredient in Ventolin) is itself a banned substance (it's in the category of beta-2 agonist.) At least one study from a quick Google suggests that the inhaler form taken at double the standard therapeutic dose does not offer a performance enhancing effect in non-asthmatics - however salbutamol can also be taken in pill form or injected into muscle, which is quite a different story and is banned entirely. I have seen it pointed out that the taken as an inhaler it merely relaxes the spasms that constrict the airways and don't open them wider than normal; as such you would not expect a benefit in people who were not already suffering from constriction.

Fion_McCool

stuf wrote: »

erm - that was sarcasm.

I cannot see your face or hear the intonation of your voice... which is why emoticons were invented. ;-)

stuf wrote: »

They have tame doctors who certify they have asthma. It's common practice in most professional sports and in my opinion is just one aspect of why WADA's war on drugs is just filled to the brim with hypocrisy

I think you are being a little unfair on WADA.

They are now keeping the serum from blood tests for 8 years... So that cheats identified with drug tests yet to be invented may be stripped of their medals when identified.

They are also working with the Pharma companies to identify possible doping agents and develop tests before the drugs are released to the market.

.

tunney

stuf wrote: »

erm - that was sarcasm. They have tame doctors who certify they have asthma. It's common practice in most professional sports and in my opinion is just one aspect of why WADA's war on drugs is just filled to the brim with hypocrisy

For 23 years I thought my breathing was perfectly fine. I could play soccer with the lads, play club hurling, do a little running, 5ks 10ks, for fun and trained for the marathon, and did a fair bit of mountain biking in my teens.

When I was 23 I got more and more into endurance sports - running, cycling and triathlon. For the first year all was grand, then I started upping the amount of training I'd do and I started training regardless of rain, hail or snow. I start missing weeks of training due to "chest infections", antibotics couldn't clear them and they just kept coming back. This went on for an entire year until I started to think that maybe they weren't chest infections but something else. What I did not know. Another 6 months or a year later I went for a run along the canal in cold weather, a cold mist on the water. Little did I know it but perfect conditions for an asthma attack for anyone suffering from asthma, or even exercise induced asthma. As I didn't have asthma i didn't know what was going on as when I finished my easy run. I couldn't breath, I couldn't talk, I couldn't move. I sat in the changing room for 40 minutes until I could talk and walk again and I went straight to the doctor. I had asthma, more specifically EIA.

Now if I wasn't training alot, and if I stayed in nice warm conditions indoors alot I'd be grand. I'd be one of the people who gets on their high horse about "cyclists and their *asthma*".

blorg

My own experience is pretty identical to tunney's, the problems only started when I started really high intensity exercise (this year.) Had been doing the mileage beforehand without problems but at a far lower intensity.

911

stuf wrote: »

erm - that was sarcasm. They have tame doctors who certify they have asthma. It's common practice in most professional sports and in my opinion is just one aspect of why WADA's war on drugs is just filled to the brim with hypocrisy

How does allowing someone taking medication constitute hypocrisy? I may be misunderstanding your inference but if you believe that an athlete being given a TUE is the same as being handed a licence to dope you are uninfromed. The doses from an inhaler are miniscule compared to what would be required to benefit from doping with i.e. SALBUTAMOL, if large quantities of this drug is detected in an athletes blood even if they have a TUE they will still be banned.

blorg

Indeed, in fairness I was skeptical myself about salbutamol TUEs etc. until it happened to me. (Indeed even posted in a thread here earlier this year about the high incidence of asthma in the pro peloton.)

Fion_McCool

911 wrote: »

How does allowing someone taking medication constitute hypocrisy? I may be misunderstanding your inference but if you believe that an athlete being given a TUE is the same as being handed a licence to dope you are uninfromed. The doses from an inhaler are miniscule compared to what would be required to benefit from doping with i.e. SALBUTAMOL, if large quantities of this drug is detected in an athletes blood even if they have a TUE they will still be banned.

True...

Two whiffs from a salbutamol (Ventolin) inhaler will give blood levels in single figures (ng/ml).

The level has to be above 1000 ng/ml before it is considered an anti-doping rule violation.

http://www.judonsw.com.au/media/Prohibited-List-2007.pdf

blorg

911 wrote: »

How does allowing someone taking medication constitute hypocrisy? I may be misunderstanding your inference but if you believe that an athlete being given a TUE is the same as being handed a licence to dope you are uninfromed. The doses from an inhaler are miniscule compared to what would be required to benefit from doping with i.e. SALBUTAMOL, if large quantities of this drug is detected in an athletes blood even if they have a TUE they will still be banned.

Indeed, Petacchi was banned for too high a concentration despite having a TUE.