Rate a Post and/or Moderator's Golden Star

cregser

There's a lot of crap on the Internet and a lot of crap on boards. We need a way to sift through all the crap and find the good stuff. Other forums or comments sections in blogs use post ratings to allow users to grade posts as they see fit. This allows readers with more important things to do (read: short attention spans ) to glance at the post's score and decide if it's worth reading/replying to. It's similar to the "Thanks" and "Ignore Poster" buttons but less definitive/extreme.

I just thought of this idea when reading through a large thread that started off interesting but (as usual) swayed on and off topic. I thought it would be handy if there was a way to filter the noise and hopefully find a decent discussion.

I don't think everyone should be allowed to rate posts or it will get abused like Youtube where the average score is -5. Moderators and posters nominated by moderators (for the respective forum) could rate posts. This brings in the Moderator's Golden Star idea. The person who has this is just short of a moderator. Basically, their opinion has proven to be worth something and the mod has given them a star (or whatever) and that user can then go and rate the newbies. This would give mods of all forums the option of whether to use this feature or not - if they want, they can just star nobody.

Pro's:
- it'll help busy threads and forums to stay on topic.
- it'll inform users that they're being unhelpful or unappreciated before they go and get themselves banned
- it could make spotting bad posts easier for mods so they don't have to sift through everything to keep a forum decent.
- a post from a starred user can be trusted more >> niche or technical forum posts were advice is given can have some weight behind it or show that it warrants further research.

Con's:
- peeps might get upset and complain if marked low
- may be difficult to implement.
- an elitist clique could possibly form in some forums were newbies could become ignored/ridiculed.

SimpleSam06

Yeah, they use this exact system over on slashdot, nested, but thats a site that routinely attracts hundreds of posts per topic. It might make sense in some of the 200+ megathreads running around, where its basically impossible to read the whole thing, and its all over if you want to respond to any particular point that wasn't made in the last few pages.

I mentioned this in feedback before and the Admins gave a fairly solid no in response, so I wouldnt hold out much hope. Maybe if it kicked in after a couple of hundred posts in a thread?

MooseJam

Indifferent

most posts are less than a couple of lines, if you need a ranking system to decide whether to read then yes you are special

There is the 'rate thread' option presently available, although it's fairly basic in the One Star to Five Star method.

The problem with having both positive and negative awards is that it is basically like rep, which boards used to have, and I don't believe the admins wish to go back to something like that again.

Ponster

Don't like it

cregser wrote: »

Con's:

- may be difficult to implement.

Not possible AFAIK with this version of VBB but may be moddable.

110% though for the suggestion. It's excellent to see people looking forward like this !

Flamed Diving

Indifferent

nay

SimpleSam06

MooseJam wrote: »

most posts are less than a couple of lines, if you need a ranking system to decide whether to read then yes you are special

Right, so which posts of this thread would you read?

MooseJam

Indifferent

none I don't care about housing, if I did I'd probably scan through the whole thing, most threads aren't that big though are they

cregser

@SimpleSam06: Slashdot does come to mind and I like their system. They're a pretty popular/busy site on the Internet and it seems to work for them. Good idea about the kick-in feature. I think that if this idea proved popular, it might encourage bigger threads that are worthwhile searching through rather than small threads with one reply linking to where this came up before.

@MooseJam: See, one glance at your sig and I knew to ignore your post!

@Myth: I think this idea is more granular than those. One person might have a poor rep overall but have an expert and appreciated opinion on Rec>Facial Hair and Hats for instance.

Zaph

Indifferent

How do you decide who to allow rate posts? Take one forum I mod as an example, Dublin 15. There's a relatively small group of people that post there, but it's active enough for the size of it and the same people tend to post regularly. Given that almost all are reasonable posters and have made valuable contributions, how would I decide a) what percentage of regulars should get a vote; b) who to give those votes to; or c) who get's my magic star, all without upsetting a forum that has little or no internal strife as it is. I can only see those problems being magnified to the point of flame wars somewhere like AH.

cregser

Hey Zaph. Good questions. Re-reading my post, I seem to be suggesting that only one person gets the magic star. That's not what I meant. Anybody who the moderator feels reliably contributes to a forum should get the star (to allow them to vote).

In your case, any non-regulars visiting/lurking-on the forum will know that certain posters have a good knowledge of Dublin 15 as confirmed by yourself. So their posts don't have to be treated with a pinch of salt.

Now, if you're happy with forum as it is, you shouldn't have to implement it. And if you're afraid of offending people, you probably shouldn't. But I got the idea when reading this. I thought the OP of the linked thread would be happier if recent influx of posters to his favourite forum could have been informed that they weren't that welcome (and maybe they could have setup a "do-gooders" forum of their own [or be told to f-off by site admins ]).

Another add-on to this could be that all users get the right to vote after a certain post-count on a forum and a Mod can revoke that at anytime.

SimpleSam06

cregser wrote: »

I think this idea is more granular than those. One person might have a poor rep overall but have an expert and appreciated opinion on Rec>Facial Hair and Hats for instance.

Theres no question that the idea works, slashdot is fairly spectacular living proof of that. Whether it would work on boards is very much a cost versus rewards situation though. Its a real pity to lose some of the great posts in the larger threads though, vanished forever in the mists of 5000 posts...

MooseJam wrote: »

most threads aren't that big though are they

Good thing I decided to mention that it should be only used in large threads before you posted then, isn't it?

Cuddlesworth

In a circle jerk do you go clockwise or anti-clockwise?

cregser

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In a circle jerk do you go clockwise or anti-clockwise?

Wrong forum? Wrong website maybe?

Steve

Indifferent

Fail because:

a) The mods already have enough to do and the new "undermods" will quickly grow weary of having to rate every post in the forum.

b) It will only lead to allegations of favouritism and spawn many hateful feedback threads leading to users who previously got along with each other no longer able to stand the mere mention of their name.

c) How many variations of Karma does it take before everyone learns it's no good on a site like boards.

d) I think it's a lazy way of getting someone else to prefilter what you are going to read.


I could also be wrong:)

Gran Hermano

Indifferent

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In a circle jerk do you go clockwise or anti-clockwise?

Left hand for the clockwise and right hand for the anti-clockwise.
You can give stars to those on the clockwise side and if OP gets their
way you can give stars to those on the anti-clockwise track.

Another -1 here, I don't think it's needed.

Bob the Builder

Indifferent

I like Boards.ie being a Web 1.0 site. Having features like this turn it into a Web 2.0 site, which loses originality.

I remember back in the day when discussion was about discussion and not ratin' and hatin' posts.

jor el

Indifferent

In principle, this might sound like a good idea, but I honestly don't believe Boards needs it. I've never had a problem filtering out posts that don't interest me, by simply ignoring it, or posters I don't want to listen to, by using the Ignore feature. I also don't really like the idea of someone else deciding which posts are worth reading or not, unless of course it's a mod who has deleted a post for being unsuitable for the thread/forum.

All in all, I think Boards works well, and all this trying to fix it that's being talked about lately, is just going to break it.

faceman

Indifferent

I think its a terrible idea and sounds like a popularity contest.

Mods dont need an indepth knowledge of a topic to mod a forum so how will the mod know what is good or bad advice/post?

What if an excellent post/advice is against popular thinking?

What is defined as noise?

I come to boards for fun, education and banter. I dont come here to judge other people's opinions and vice versa.

popebenny16

I'm not having it on my boards anyway.

I just thought of this idea when reading through a large thread that started off interesting but (as usual) swayed on and off topic. I thought it would be handy if there was a way to filter the noise and hopefully find a decent discussion.

your actual problem there was lack of moderation in the first place.

The star ratings system does it, but here's the thing:

On what basis would a ratings system be, erm..., based? Is it because its the thread topic, is it because you like the poster, his/her posting style, it's way too subjective.

What's to stop me from deciding I dont like a poster or topic on my foum and instead of locking it denigrating it with negative ratings? The result will be the feedback forum will be swamped with "what was wrong with my thread" stuff.

I can see where you're coming from, but I just dont like indroducing systems that are open to abuse. Thanks is fine, Karma isnt, for that reason, same goes with this I feel.

Hobbes

Jeez, do people never read up on the rep/karma stuff we had before?

NO

It wouldn't work because at the end of the day people are broken and score whores.

RoundyMooney

Hobbes wrote: »

Jeez, do people never read up on the rep/karma stuff we had before?

NO

It wouldn't work because at the end of the day people are broken and score whores.

People will never be dissuaded from attempting to come up (oo-er!) with new and fascinating ways to jerk each others e-penii.

This is not a reflection on the OP. It's not his fault they have so much time on their hands.

The rest of us can only look on with some bemusement, I guess.

Call Me Jimmy

Nah, I don't think it would work for boards and it would actually detract from any discussion imo. Also, I don't trust the judgement of other people on boards as it would be just as much about user popularity/agreeing with the post as it would be about how good a post it is.

I just don't want other people to tell me if each individual post is good or not.

MagicMarker

We should introduce this system to this thread alone, at least then i more than likely wouldn't have even bothered reading it.

SimpleSam06

Hobbes wrote: »

It wouldn't work because at the end of the day people are broken and score whores.

It does work though.

One of the most popular sites on the internet, slashdot (which coined the term "slashdotted" because it brings servers down in flames when stories are posted there), uses exactly this system, and was using it before there was a Web 2.0 (also another point, boards uses a lot of AJAX which is very web 2.0 already, your quote and thanks buttons for example). Yes there is an element of score-whoring there, but mostly it serves as a superb bullshit filter.

The main advantage I would see for something like this is in very large threads, with thousands of posts. The ones after the first page and before the last three pages may as well never have been written, lost forever in a huge thread.

This is a pity.

dr.bollocko

Indifferent

I wouldn't really mind. Wouldnt change my boards experience anyway. Between AH, BGRH, SnS and PI there is very little material there that could even get rated. Certainly not any of my posts anyway
But I still voted no.

cregser

I think this needs a repackage like the Nice treaty! Anything that triggers memories of a karma\reputation system seems to be a no-no around here. Take out the Moderator's Golden Star idea and you have a post rating system. Pure and simple. No reputation. No ego's or e-penises (what is the fascination with e-penises?). But a simple system can be abused. So make the golden stars invisible so that rating is anonymous. Restrict rating ability to 3 people per forum, or mods only, hold a popular vote, give rating ability randomly, whatever. But you need some form of control.

I don't think the idea would suite general banter forums or threads. That's why I suggested it should be up to the Mods to enable it on a per-forum basis. Down the line, it might be an idea to enable it on a per-thread basis were the OP wants to know what advice/opinions are worth taking seriously.

I started looking for another vBulletin forum that uses this (I don't know why, because Slashdot is a great example). But it seems vBulletin is built around the whole reputation idea, and nobody's really done post rating yet. I did find this hack with some accompanying enthusiastic discussion. However, it's in beta stages and seems to be alone.

So unless the site admins are good hackers and enthusiastic about this, I'd say it's at least on the back-burner for the moment.

Hobbes

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

It does work though.

No it doesn't.

One of the most popular sites on the internet, slashdot

Pretty much everyone has heard of slashdot. I even have a low number account on it. The way the system works there is that you are randomly given the ability to award 5 points ONLY to NEW stories that you haven't responded to. Added to that people are either assigned to moderate your points or there is meta-moderation in place.

Yes there is an element of score-whoring there, but mostly it serves as a superb bullshit filter.

It doesn't really. The sheer volume of people and random assignment is what makes slashdot kind of work. But if you hit a topic that the demographic of slashdot get rabid over and moderation goes out the window.

Good examples of this that I have seen is a dev related post on Java gets spammed and modded up with "Java is slow" BS. Lotus Notes also gets that crap as well.

An even better example is digg. You can +/- a point on each post. There are for want of a better word fanboi groups on that. You write something that annoys one of them and you can guarantee all your posts are buried for the rest of history. Fox News even paid a group to revote after anti-fox news stories left the main page so that it looked like digg posters actually disagreed with the post.

This is a pity.

No the pity is having to put up with people complaining wanting to know why they are being marked down for what they consider is a rational well thought out post, while CN type post spammers get incredible scores.

But a simple system can be abused.

Any system can be abused given enough time. The rep/karma was a good example of it.

Hobbes

cregser wrote: »

I did find this hack with some accompanying enthusiastic discussion. However, it's in beta stages and seems to be alone.

That is the same as the Karma system, except for all people not just mods. If Mods couldn't behave with it, what makes you think everyone else will?

Beruthiel

Indifferent

I believe the 'thanks' system is quite enough and see no real need to be rated on my posts or comments on top of that.

SimpleSam06

Hobbes wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

Hobbes wrote: »

The way the system works there is that you are randomly given the ability to award 5 points ONLY to NEW stories that you haven't responded to. Added to that people are either assigned to moderate your points or there is meta-moderation in place.

No, only members in good standing are assigned mod points, that is members that have been there sufficiently long, have been modded up a sufficient number of times to be granted that privelege, and a wide variety of other metrics. If you abuse the privelege, it can be stripped from you. Your five points return after a period of time, and I'm not sure why you'd need to copy over the "new stories moderation only" feature.

Hobbes wrote: »

It doesn't really. The sheer volume of people and random assignment is what makes slashdot kind of work.

The assignment isn't random, and it didn't always have that volume. A good case could be made that it only reached its current popularity because of the moderation system in place there.

Hobbes wrote: »

Good examples of this that I have seen is a dev related post on Java gets spammed and modded up with "Java is slow" BS. Lotus Notes also gets that crap as well.

And on the other hand, I have seen discussions where Java proponents put forward strong arguments which were immediately visible and clearly not answered by better arguments.

In fact I haven't seen any successful Java bashing there in years. I do recall Java bashing back when there was a lot to bash about it, though.

Hobbes wrote: »

An even better example is digg.

Digg is a completely different system, which I wouldn't advocate using.

Hobbes wrote: »

No the pity is having to put up with people complaining wanting to know why they are being marked down for what they consider is a rational well thought out post, while CN type post spammers get incredible scores.

Eppur si muove!

Hobbes wrote: »

Any system can be abused given enough time. The rep/karma was a good example of it.

Cost/reward ratios again...

Overheal

Indifferent

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

And on the other hand, I have seen discussions where Java proponents put forward strong arguments which were immediately visible and clearly not answered by better arguments.

In fact I haven't seen any successful Java bashing there in years. I do recall Java bashing back when there was a lot to bash about it, though.

Our Games Dev course loved bashing the Programming course for their Java. Cos you know, C++ is a cooler language and all that. Eat my memory address pointer, bitch!

Theres nothing in the star system I see that isnt already done by +1 posts, quoting, and the thanks button.

javaboy

Indifferent

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Theres no question that the idea works

Hobbes wrote: »

It wouldn't work

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

It does work though.

Hobbes wrote: »

No it doesn't.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Yes, it does.

He's behind you!

Cabaal

Myth wrote: »

There is the 'rate thread' option presently available, although it's fairly basic in the One Star to Five Star method.

The problem with having both positive and negative awards is that it is basically like rep, which boards used to have, and I don't believe the admins wish to go back to something like that again.

Agreed, look at the joke that rep turned into
thank feck its gone