My first triathlon - Advice appreciated

buck65

Hi guys
Just entered the Portumna triathlon (.5k swim, 20k cycle, 5k run) today for end Sept. Gives me just enough time to get ready. Not interested in placings just finishing it. I have ran a few road races (10 years ago though) cycled 4 Clare 250 mile cycles and swam on and off but never combined all 3.
At the moment I can run 5k but haven't cycled in 5 years, swimming wise I could do .5k now but would struggle.
I would like to prepare a training schedule so I could finish the triathlon without killing myself. I also train in Martial arts so core and flexibility, strength is decent.
I can train perhaps 3 days a week (plus 2 Martial arts classes)
Any advice on 1st time triathlons would be appreciated. ~Time/ distance per discipline etc.

hunnymonster

Hopefully the Athletics mods will bounce this over to the triathlon forum


Ok, Let's start with the basics
1. Is it a pool swim or open water. If OW do you have a wetsuit?
2. Do you have a bike, is it road worthy?

next thing is to get out and try each discipline to see where your strengths and weaknesses are. You've 7 and a bit weeks until the race.

If you only have time for one session per discipline a week then something like

swim bike run
week 1 0.4 km (with breaks) 10 km 2 km (walk if you need to)
week 2 0.5 km (with breaks) 15 km 2.5 km
week 3 0.5 km (no breaks if you can) 10 km 3 km
week 4 0.75 km 20 km 3.5 km
week 5 0.6 km 25 km 2 km
week 6 0.6 km 30 km 4 km
week 7 0.5 km 20 km 5 km
might work. It won't do anything for speed but if you manage that, you will finish. In week 5 or 6 try to do the bike and run back-to-back (a brick session) to get a feel for running off the bike.

buck65

sorry didn't realise there was a triathlon forum !!

Pherekydes

hunnymonster wrote: »

Hopefully the Athletics mods will bounce this over to the triathlon forum

Just back from a spin. Moved as requested (bounced ).

blorg

@buck65- I have only started at this sort of thing this week so take what I say accordingly- but I have been cycling for a fair while. If you can do the swim and the run, I reckon you are sorted. The thing about cycling is that you can take it easy, freewheel, go just a little bit slower, whenever you like (presuming you are not going up a hill, and most triathlons are fairly flat.) Not as easy on the swim, certainly not on the run. So if you just want to finish bear that in mind, you can take it a bit easier and recover on the bike (conveniently situated between the swim and run.) You should certainly use the bike bit to take in fluids, shouldn't be necessary on the other two bits at all if you do it on the bike.

buck65

Would 1 x 20-25k cycle weekly be enough then?
Reckon I could do 2 x 500m pool sessions in a week with 2 x 5k runs a week also.
If I did this consistently for the next 6 weeks and "brick" a couple of sessions would this be sufficient?

Does anyone know the route in Portumna - is it flattish? What's the swim like etc?
Quite excited about the whole thing now.

hunnymonster

No I would be inclined to do more cycling if you are not used to it. Try to get at least one 30 km-ish cycle in and a couple of 20 km's.

buck65

Another thing , do you leave your running gear beside your bike and does someone watch your bike while you run?

hunnymonster

yes, leave your running stuff beside your bike. Usually there are some marshals to watch the transition area(s) but that's not to say stuff has never gone missing.

buck65

cheers
ran 5k and swam 300m fri
cycled 12k yesterday (first time on a bike in 5 yrs)
so on the way now

what would be a respectable time for a sprint triathlon?
saw a post where a novice did it in 1hr 14, seemed like good going to me

Bambaata

i find it hard to compare times because each course is different. 1hr 10mins - 20mins and you'd be doing well enough but again its hard to say.

mc23

I don't enter triathlons but a friend who recently completed his first said he wished he had got his hands on a decent bike. Like running a marathon in wellies is how he described trying to do the cycle on a bike that wasn't up to the job.

tunney

mc23 wrote: »

I don't enter triathlons but a friend who recently completed his first said he wished he had got his hands on a decent bike. Like running a marathon in wellies is how he described trying to do the cycle on a bike that wasn't up to the job.

Must people do blame the bike for lack of bike fitness.

I've seen people on top of the range carbon TT bikes with discs and deep section front wheels have their asses handed to them on a plate by a fit guy on an MTB.

Amazotheamazing

tunney wrote: »

Must people do blame the bike for lack of bike fitness.

I've seen people on top of the range carbon TT bikes with discs and deep section front wheels have their asses handed to them on a plate by a fit guy on an MTB.

As Lance Armstrong tells us, it's not about the bike.

I have two racers, one about 20 years old with a steel frame, the other is about 3 or 4 years old and with an aluminium frame, far lighter than the steel frame one. makes surprisingly little difference to the times I do, but then, I'm not much of a cyclist anyhow (or a swimmer, or even a runner either!).

buck65

I actually paid €1200 for a Raleigh r400 bike 6 years ago as I once did a lot of cycling. so it is quite a good one. Took it out sunday for a spin , forgot how severe those race saddles are!

tunney

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

As Lance Armstrong tells us, it's not about the bike.

I have two racers, one about 20 years old with a steel frame, the other is about 3 or 4 years old and with an aluminium frame, far lighter than the steel frame one. makes surprisingly little difference to the times I do, but then, I'm not much of a cyclist anyhow (or a swimmer, or even a runner either!).

The weight of a bike is only ever going to make a difference in a hilly race. on a typical triathlon course bike weight is not that important.

As for the lance quote ... very true, your chemist is more important than your bike

tunney

buck65 wrote: »

I actually paid €1200 for a Raleigh r400 bike 6 years ago as I once did a lot of cycling. so it is quite a good one. Took it out sunday for a spin , forgot how severe those race saddles are!

Race saddles are not the problem its either that its set up wrong or that you are not cycling hard enough. If you are just pottering about on your bike race saddles will be a little harsh but if you are going at a reasonable effort they are much more comfortable.

buck65

yeah i pottered for a few thousand miles a year:p

actually the saddle is sore for the first few spins regardless of how hard your pushing, mate why do you talk to people like they're imbeciles? you had a go at me in the Mental Toughness thread as well and then never replied when i asked you to elaborate.

hunnymonster

Most training rides should not be hard enough to be "hovering" on the saddle imo. Particularly a newbie should be doing lots of low HR stuff so it is perfectly understandable that he (?) is a bit sore particularly with the bounce on Irish roads.

Buck65, I got some pretty serious chaffing on a 200km cycle at the weekend on a saddle I've used for 2 years in shorts I've used many times. Sometimes **** just happens. The new-to-cycling soreness will wear off but it is worth checking out your bike position.

Tunney, Buck65 has a very good point that you come across as very rude a lot of the time. I realise this is your personality but it's not pleasant to read. If you're not barking orders, you're giving your opinion as if it is fact or telling people they are wrong but without any explanation that they can use to look into the question further. A lot of the people turning up here are new to triathlon, quite a few are new to sport completely. They don't want to win races, they want to get fitter and enjoy a new sport. Don't ruin it for them please.

tunney

hunnymonster wrote: »

Most training rides should not be hard enough to be "hovering" on the saddle imo. Particularly a newbie should be doing lots of low HR stuff so it is perfectly understandable that he (?) is a bit sore particularly with the bounce on Irish roads.

Buck65, I got some pretty serious chaffing on a 200km cycle at the weekend on a saddle I've used for 2 years in shorts I've used many times. Sometimes **** just happens. The new-to-cycling soreness will wear off but it is worth checking out your bike position.

Tunney, Buck65 has a very good point that you come across as very rude a lot of the time. I realise this is your personality but it's not pleasant to read. If you're not barking orders, you're giving your opinion as if it is fact or telling people they are wrong but without any explanation that they can use to look into the question further. A lot of the people turning up here are new to triathlon, quite a few are new to sport completely. They don't want to win races, they want to get fitter and enjoy a new sport. Don't ruin it for them please.

I'll take it on board hunnymonster. Its certainly not my intention to put people off the sport. I think its one of the most accessible and fun sports around.

tunney

hunnymonster wrote: »

Most training rides should not be hard enough to be "hovering" on the saddle imo. Particularly a newbie should be doing lots of low HR stuff so it is perfectly understandable that he (?) is a bit sore particularly with the bounce on Irish roads.

Most training rides should be low HR regardless of level of experience. However if a ride is a training ride there will be some work. If there is some work then the very fact that you are doing this work will effectively "unweight" the nether regions. I personally hate recovery rides as this will be the most uncomfortable ride.

I still firmly believe that there is no such thing as an uncomfortable saddle - just one either set up wrong or being used inappropriately. Racing saddles for racing and or training. TT saddles for TTs and big fat fluffy ones for people that don't cycle. This is from a male perspective

hunnymonster wrote: »

Buck65, I got some pretty serious chaffing on a 200km cycle at the weekend on a saddle I've used for 2 years in shorts I've used many times. Sometimes **** just happens. The new-to-cycling soreness will wear off but it is worth checking out your bike position.

Chaffing is very different to pressure pain from saddles. Chaffing will happen regardless of your saddle. I find you can reduce the likelyhood of this will good quality shorts that fit well but still it happens. A good quality chamois cream applied to both yourself and the chamois can make a huge difference.

Nether region pain comes in two forms - pressure and friction. Covered well here - http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Chamois_cream_the_best_thing_you_re_not_using_461.html

A note on this article - the assos chamois cream has changed and no longer contains the witch hazel and other "numbing" agents. Will be looking for a new type now.

Slowtwitch is *the* place for position and fit articles.

buck65

Thanks for that

El Hamster

Whatever the rest of this crowd are saying, the freeest, pain-free time you'll gain in a triathlon is just simply by getting into a more aerodynamic position on the bike. This really is the ultimate 'free lunch' as there is no pay back, and actually the research shows that if you ride a steep angle, aero position, it also helps your run speed off the bike.

Avail of this free offer.

tunney

El Hamster wrote: »

Whatever the rest of this crowd are saying, the freeest, pain-free time you'll gain in a triathlon is just simply by getting into a more aerodynamic position on the bike. This really is the ultimate 'free lunch' as there is no pay back, and actually the research shows that if you ride a steep angle, aero position, it also helps your run speed off the bike.

Avail of this free offer.

Its not a free lunch.

I think the article below covers the cost of getting the gains. it take work.

http://www.velonews.com/article/81685/the-evolution-of-aero

buck65

A couple of questions to you guys
I am into week 3 of my prep for Portumna tri 27 sept. (sprint triathlon)

At the moment my schedule is something like this

2 x 600m swims ( stopping once - after aprox 400m ~I will stop this soon though) (35 secs per 25m length)
2 x bike rides 1 short (35 mins) 1 longer aprox 25k (speed aprox 17mph)
2 x 3 miles run ( aprox 9 min miles - I will increase this to 4.5 in the next few weeks)

(plus 1/2 Taekwondo classes as well)
this is about all I can fit in timewise , wondering will this be enough to get me over the finish line healthily? Also do my times seem Ok to you guys?

hunnymonster

yes and yes. You should be fine. I would like to see a longer bike ride but if it's not possible, then it's not possible so don't stress over it. Another thing would be to do at least 1-2 bricks (i.e. swim to bike session and bike to run session). You'll feel better approaching race day if you know it's normal for your legs to feel like jelly when you change discipline. Good Luck.

Seres

I've seen people on top of the range carbon TT bikes with discs and deep section front wheels have their asses handed to them on a plate by a fit guy on an MTB.[/quote]

tunney this is certainly not that common i am sure

'The weight of a bike is only ever going to make a difference in a hilly race. on a typical triathlon course bike weight is not that important.'

Tunney I am a newbie and you do seem to know alot about tri training etc so i will only speak from experience , i do think the type/weight of bike makes a significant difference when you are talking about heavy mountain bikes compared to light weight road bike , one day i went out training with the local club ant there was this new guy with a mountain bike , i beat him on a 23km circuit by about 3 minutes on my heavy hybrid bike , now this same guy came out on a light road bike the next day and trashed me on the same circuit ( circuit is not that hilly ) -can you explain this

Also i am farily fit in general ( on land , swimming is a different story) and how come i have to break my ass to stay even within a minute of the last person of our group , all of whom have light road bikes , and who are not training half as much as me .

My point is this : the bike , weight/type, makes a big difference when you are riding a bad one

buck65

what happens if you get a puncture on the course- do you bring a spare tube and fix yourself or is there assistance?

blorg

buck65 wrote: »

what happens if you get a puncture on the course- do you bring a spare tube and fix yourself or is there assistance?

You should be in a position to fix it yourself. AFAIK you are specifically prohibited from receiving outside assistance while racing although I think the organisers may provide it.

buck65

I have started training 3 weeks ago now, maybe 5 days a week with at least one day with 2 sessions.
To my horror I stepped on a scales today and not even am I lighter I have actually put on 3 pounds, totally disheartened by this. My diet hasn't changed ( generally healthy) what's the story?
:eek:

paulksnn

Hi Bucks -
I had the same thing when I started in january.
Turns out that muscles weighs more than fat.
Also, are you measuring at the same time of day, with the same amount of water intake.
It all affects the result.

buck65

yeah
always first thing before breakfast
does this weight gain balance out?
I remeber when I did a lot of running I lost 20 pounds over a year but that was when I was early 20s
Does cycling and swimming bulk you up?

Bambaata

buck65 wrote: »

I have started training 3 weeks ago now, maybe 5 days a week with at least one day with 2 sessions.
To my horror I stepped on a scales today and not even am I lighter I have actually put on 3 pounds, totally disheartened by this. My diet hasn't changed ( generally healthy) what's the story?
:eek:

have you found jeans or slacks etc a bit looser or anything like that? i was in the same situation whereby i had gained weight but then someone asked me that question and when i thought of it none of my work slacks (all tailored for me) fit anymore. They are all slightly too baggy. I'm told this is where some people see the difference as in if you weren't really overweight to being you will more than likely see a gain or stay the same weight but you'll tone up more and clothes hence don't fit as well.

blorg

I can be better to focus on waist size than weight. I haven't lost any weight the last few months but I'm down several sizes, will need to invest in a belt.

Three weeks is probably not long enough in any case to notice a difference.

Generally diet loses weight, exercise will only assist with increased metabolism, etc.

Were you overweight to begin with? If you were not, I would not expect to see weight loss and indeed weight gain is not too surprising.

buck65

Not overweight in your typical sense but I feel I am carrying probably a stone too much. I am 13st and 3lbs and stand 6 ft.

tunney

Seres wrote: »

I've seen people on top of the range carbon TT bikes with discs and deep section front wheels have their asses handed to them on a plate by a fit guy on an MTB.

tunney this is certainly not that common i am sure

okay maybe not MTBs but crappy racers is very common.

Seres wrote: »

'The weight of a bike is only ever going to make a difference in a hilly race. on a typical triathlon course bike weight is not that important.'

Tunney I am a newbie and you do seem to know alot about tri training etc so i will only speak from experience , i do think the type/weight of bike makes a significant difference when you are talking about heavy mountain bikes compared to light weight road bike , one day i went out training with the local club ant there was this new guy with a mountain bike , i beat him on a 23km circuit by about 3 minutes on my heavy hybrid bike , now this same guy came out on a light road bike the next day and trashed me on the same circuit ( circuit is not that hilly ) -can you explain this

I never said type didn't make a different I said weight. TT bikes are alot heavier than road bikes and it makes not difference.

On a flat course what is important is the total wattage you can put out and sustain and the aerodynamic profile you expose. The higher the wattage and the lower the profile the better. TT bikes are heavier than road bikes but they allow you to get into a lower and more aero position and are also more aerodynamic themselves.

On a hilly course it is all about your power to weight ration. That is the total number of watts that you can put out and sustain divided by your weight in KG. On hills weight is important (proper hills, none in the Irish triathlon scene)

tunney

buck65 wrote: »

yeah
always first thing before breakfast
does this weight gain balance out?
I remeber when I did a lot of running I lost 20 pounds over a year but that was when I was early 20s
Does cycling and swimming bulk you up?

Not in three weeks.

Keep a food diary you'll may see you are overeating. Rate what you eat against calories expended.

MCOS

I decided a few weeks ago that I would try a triathlon next year so I have begun to swim twice a week and do a spin class. I'm also training for the Marathon in Dublin, all in all about 6 session per week. My weight stays fairly constant. I also know a girl who won the overall Body for Life competition in the UK, she dropped body fat, gained muscle, ate more meals night and day and stayed more or less the same weight for the 3 months. She looked amazing. What I'm try to say that there are a fair few factors involved with weight. What most people mean when they say they want to lose weight is that they want to tone up and look 'neater'. To burn the fat and build the muscle you have to eat more to fuel the training and the guys above are correct, muscle weighs more so it is natural to gain a few pounds, but its the right weight if the work slacks are looser! There is so much literature on what to eat and what not to eat but less so on when to to eat (I got it wrong yesterday morning on a long run and had to disappear into a bush on the dual carraigeway for a few mins!). I assume you are not tucking into steak and chips at 11pm etc... If you are eating more or less the right food and your training is going well, why do you need to drop weight?? If it is just a vanity thing and you want to look more ripped, eat more protein and start cutting out saturated fat! I know I can drop weight by keeping training constant and being more disciplined about saturated fat, however I do like to throw a dollop of creme fraiche in my Risotto...