ECCO Yak Goretex walking boots, and my wet feet!

dohouch

Got these a month ago. Were on sale reduced from €180 to €100. Have intentions of doing some long distance winter walking.

First used today for 3 hours in very heavy driven mist down on the side of Mt Brandon.
Feet soaking wet.

This is my first Goretex product and I expected a lot more. These boots now need severe drying before I would put them on again. At home now, so no problem, but, if I'm away for a 3 week walk in a wet part of the world, I'll have to take a day off after each wet day in order to dry my boots.

Like I say this is the first time I've used them, so they haven't lost waterproofing through use.

Should I take them back, is some kind of treatment necessary, or am I wrong to expect dry feet after walking for 3 hours on a soaking Irish hillside?

Alun

Are they leather boots or fabric/suede? TBH in typical Irish conditions, especially in winter (i.e. wet and boggy) I'd only really recommend a good quality full leather boot ... a GoreTex membrane in a fabric/suede boot can only do so much despite all the marketing claims. Also, after a while, the GoreTex membrane can easily become damaged, even in leather boots that have them, and start leaking anyway, so they're of little practical use IMO.

dohouch

Thanks @Alun,
quoting from the Ecco sales blurb
"Yak

3 times stronger than ordinarly cow leather

Toughened by nature to offer a stronger, safer and lighter product.

Natural look from nature's own performers.

Born and raised in altitudes above the treeline.

"Ciall ceanaithe"= Irish saying= Bought sense or learning that is paid for in coin.
There's a customer care tel. number for Gore-tex UK. Will try and get through to them and see what they say.

I thought I was paying good money and was going to get dry feet. I have an old pair of Lidl walking walking boots which I've used in similar conditions, wet grass, treated with very cheap "Gelert Nikwax weatherproofing" and I think they've stood up better.

had a look at the ECCO boots in a shop at the weekend, more for walking to the pub in, rather than on a mountain.

fguihen

i agree, ECCO boots are very very soft. real comfortable i agree, but not built for hiking. might be fine for around the house jobs and what not, but they will fall apart while hiking.

good mountainboots are stiff, and wont be the most comfortable to wear around the house, too big, heavy and stiff, but are built for rugged terrain.

dohouch

Were getting off-topic here. I got the boots specifically for walking on reasonable trails in wet weather.

I didn't want stiff heavy boots which I know are a better choice for rough terrain. I wanted light, soft boots, to walk maybe 25 to 30 miles a day in lousy wet weather (expected)

But above all I wanted DRY, Cosy Feet, and it looks like my €180 investment in Ecco Model ECC68034 won't give me that.

fergalr

First used today for 3 hours in very heavy driven mist down on the side of Mt Brandon.

Bit of a long shot here - there's no way the mist got in through the top of your boot? For example, ran down the rain trousers and in, or soaked through your non-water proof trousers and ran down your legs?
I don't know what the rest of the gear you were using is, but water will give in the top of pretty much every boot unless you're careful (some people use gaiters).

I'm not familiar with ECCO gear - seems unlikely that something sold as goretex and waterproof should be permeated by mist though - I've a pair of old meindl leather boots and if they got soaked through in those conditions I'd be quite surprised (generally don't use them though, as all boots get wet if you walk in water to your knees, and then they don't dry for ages).

If it happens again in similar conditions, I'd say try and bring them back to the shop on the basis that as a pair of boots sold as waterproof, they are not As Described, or Fit For Purpose.

Maybe do a test in your kitchen and see if small amounts of water dropped on the outside of the boot soaks through? If it does, then obviously something is wrong with the fabric.

BostonB

I got a pair of ECCO Yak Gortex walking shoes. I had hoped to use them for long walks around the city, and easy trails, not for hiking. So far I've found them water proof but I've not really been in heavy rain. One problem I have had is they are too stiff and hard for walking on paths around the city. They just kill my arches & calves. Fine on mixed trails, though I've not done any really long walks yet. Just worn them for the day rambling around. But I've work books that are softer than these.

KatCookie

Isnt there a kind of wax that you can put onto your boots? i have some Suede boots that got soaked the very first time i used them (but i think everyones feet did) but i applied some spray-waterproofer and they are much better, i'm pretty sure some wax might help!
Oh, and if you got them in a sale they might be hard to bring back, but remember that you are fully within your rights to!

dohouch

@fergalr: Well there was heavy driven mist, horizontal, and I was wearing breathable, waterproof, tight fitting (on calf) cycling trousers,- BUT I was walking in grass, boot-high.

@KatCookie: didn't want to use wax or the like as they were new and because they are Goretex boots they should be 100% waterproof ( has been confirmed in telephone call with Goretex U.K. Customer Care.) If they were not new and had given me dry walking for a year or so I would have no problem using wax or some other waterproofing treatment.

Anyway they are now back with the shop and I will report progress. If I had bought them at Lidl or Aldi I would now have my money back, but unfortunately that is still an approach to the customer that is all to rare among native businesses.

Have always shied away from Goretex because of extra price, so have taken the plunge ( even though got good sale price) am very frustrated with this poor result.

fguihen

if you submerge goretex it will let water through. its only good in rain where water can roll off. it is semi permiable remember. did you step in any deep puddles for an extended period of time? and regardless of goretex and the age of the boots, if they are leather you should be using nikwax on them to keep them fresh and new. it conditions and waterproofs the leather, adding an extra layer of protection from water.

dohouch

fguihen wrote: »

if you submerge goretex it will let water through. its only good in rain where water can roll off. it is semi permiable remember. did you step in any deep puddles for an extended period of time? and regardless of goretex and the age of the boots, if they are leather you should be using nikwax on them to keep them fresh and new. it conditions and waterproofs the leather, adding an extra layer of protection from water.

@fguihen:Well I suppose wakling in wet grass for 3 hours didn't give the water much chance to roll off, and amazed that u say Goretex boots still need extra waterproofing!

Is this the general belief about Goretex boots?

Well I got my money back today, so am half-happy. Well I now still need a a pair of boots that will keep my feet warm and dry.

Want to do Camino de Santiago> Northern Route, (probably starting in Bilbao) in December. Expect it to be quite wet, and days of wet feet would stop the show for me.

BostonB

I wore mine cycling in the heavy rain last week and no water got in. Probably the only part of me that was not wet. Very uncomfortable for cycling though.

dohouch

Well I wore mine around town once or twice and they kept me dry, but I won't pay serious money for boots just to keep me dry around town. I too do a bit of cycling was looking at these (they take cleats) ---http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?modelID=22311-- but seem to be end of stock and the sizes available are a bit big for me. Just starting to think that maybe boots without too much lining are better, at least if they get soaked I won't have to worry about waiting for the lining to dry ( maybe buy some of the "SealSkinz" waterproof socks)

bitemybanger

dohouch wrote: »

Got these a month ago. Were on sale reduced from €180 to €100. Have intentions of doing some long distance winter walking.

First used today for 3 hours in very heavy driven mist down on the side of Mt Brandon.
Feet soaking wet.

This is my first Goretex product and I expected a lot more. These boots now need severe drying before I would put them on again. At home now, so no problem, but, if I'm away for a 3 week walk in a wet part of the world, I'll have to take a day off after each wet day in order to dry my boots.

Like I say this is the first time I've used them, so they haven't lost waterproofing through use.

Should I take them back, is some kind of treatment necessary, or am I wrong to expect dry feet after walking for 3 hours on a soaking Irish hillside?

Get a pair of leather Magnum Elites. great all round boot

dohouch

Are these, leather Magnum Elites, available at "bricks and mortar" outlets in Ireland?

fguihen

dohouch wrote: »

@fguihen:Well I suppose wakling in wet grass for 3 hours didn't give the water much chance to roll off, and amazed that u say Goretex boots still need extra waterproofing!

Is this the general belief about Goretex boots?

Well I got my money back today, so am half-happy. Well I now still need a a pair of boots that will keep my feet warm and dry.

Want to do Camino de Santiago> Northern Route, (probably starting in Bilbao) in December. Expect it to be quite wet, and days of wet feet would stop the show for me.

im going from what i have learned from folks with lots of expirience, and also my own expirience. if you have leather boots, with or without goretex lining, the leather needs treating and cleaning after each time you use.

leather is tough but also prone to issues, especially which can be caused by acidic irish soils.

leather is not inherintely waterproof. thats why people polish leather shoes. not just for the shine, but also for the waterproofing of the wax polish.


now, onto gortex. gortex is permiable from the inside. this means there must be a way for water to get from the inside to the outside. this is what makes it breathable. now if you submerge it for long enough, the waterproof side will let water through. this is why you dont see drysuits for diving made from goretex.

a lightweight breathable completely waterproof material...the only material that fits that is unobtanium

so where goretex is waterproof, it is not 100% waterproof. only completely sealed materials can be waterproof, but then there goes your breathability.

fergalr

now, onto gortex. gortex is permiable from the inside. this means there must be a way for water to get from the inside to the outside. this is what makes it breathable. now if you submerge it for long enough, the waterproof side will let water through.

Without getting into a debate on materials, which I really don't understand well enough to debate about, I'd like to say that as I understand it, the rationale behind goretex is that it can let sweat out from the inside, as the sweat is water vapour, but keep the water on the outside out, as that is in liquid form (something to do with different sizes and structures of molecules between vapour and sweat, but I'd say the exact explanation is quite technical). But that's how the water gets from the inside to the outside - it does so as water vapour.

so where goretex is waterproof, it is not 100% waterproof. only completely sealed materials can be waterproof, but then there goes your breathability.

Not sure what you mean by this - I've had goretex jackets that really do keep the water out, but at the same time let sweat out. I've tested this, and it really does seem to be the case from my experience. As far as I know, they are waterproof up to a certain pressure of water on the outside..? But up to this pressure water doesn't get through..
My experience in the past is that they are what I would call 100% waterproof, in that when it rains, the jacket keeps 100% of the rain on the outside.

this is why you dont see drysuits for diving made from goretex.

I presume the reason that drysuits etc aren't made from goretex is that the water is pressing in on a drysuit with much more pressure (hyrdostatic head) than the water from a rain shower, in which case it's not really a fair comparison? Perhaps I'm wrong about this?

irishlostboy

actually, a lot of dry tops are made from goretex. also bivy bags are made from goretex. i have slept in 3 inches deep puddles in my simpatex (french army) bivy bag all night and stayed dry. the goretex (american army) one next to me did just as well. the whole "its only rainproof" arguement sounds good in theory, but in practical usage, healthy gortex is de-facto waterproof.
on to the original post. from the sound of it, its down to user error. sounds like the water wicked down your legs, slowly saturating your boot. you cannot argue with gravity. tight trousers will run the water into the boot every time.
try your boots with a pair of waterproof trousers and gaiters. treat the outside of your boot with nickwax spray on waterproofing for goretex boots.
i would lay good odds on this being the problem solved.

Evil Phil

AFAIK gortext is given a water pressure test. That is they put a column of water above the gortext and at a certain pressure it starts to let through.

dohouch

irishlostboy wrote: »

actually, a lot of dry tops are made from goretex. also bivy bags are made from goretex. i have slept in 3 inches deep puddles in my simpatex (french army) bivy bag all night and stayed dry. the goretex (american army) one next to me did just as well. the whole "its only rainproof" arguement sounds good in theory, but in practical usage, healthy gortex is de-facto waterproof.
on to the original post. from the sound of it, its down to user error. sounds like the water wicked down your legs, slowly saturating your boot. you cannot argue with gravity. tight trousers will run the water into the boot every time.
try your boots with a pair of waterproof trousers and gaiters. treat the outside of your boot with nickwax spray on waterproofing for goretex boots.

Interesting experience sleeping in 3 inches of water, BUT because of the premium price of these products, Goretex and Sympatex, I really would expect premium performance, as u seemed to have experienced.

Because of the unexpected foot soaking I got, I did think that maybe I had somehow contributed to it. I was wearing breathable, waterproof cycling trousers, - Endura Gridlock Overtrouser-and the trousers I was wearing underneath were DRY. Even considered it might have been sweat, but the soaking wasn't just my socks but the boot linings were 100% water-logged.

irishlostboy

dohouch wrote: »

Because of the unexpected foot soaking I got, I did think that maybe I had somehow contributed to it. I was wearing breathable, waterproof cycling trousers, - -and the trousers I was wearing underneath were DRY. Even considered it might have been sweat, but the soaking wasn't just my socks but the boot linings were 100% water-logged.

yes, it is quite possible for the water to hit your breathable ovewrtrousers and run down them into the top of your boot, and leave your inner trousers dry. as they are cycle trousers, i am betting that the ankle of the trousers were above the tops of the boots, yes? if this is the case all water has to do is slowly trickle down. it can happen slow enough that your trousers may seem only damp on the outside, but still soak your boot. naturally your bodytemp will evaporate light moisture off the trousers quick enough, but what ends up in your socks and boots is going nowhere.
when dressing for the rain, you need to make sure that the higher layers are always overlapping the lower layers. the only time i have goretex fail on me is when either it is old and needs reproofing, or when i wear a hole in it. (i tend to wear a hole in the gore-tex lining of my boots within 9 months with my the nail of my big toe. as my boots are well polished full grain leather, they still tend to keep my feet dry.) your boots are new, so you only have two options. user error or fault. it will be simple to find out. dress appropriately and go walk around in the rain for a while. we are havin the most PERFECT summer for you to test your kit. when you have it tested, do get back to us with a verdict, so others can make an informed desision on whether or not this model of boot is suitable for their needs. it is always helpful to see when kit goes wrong, and why. good luck with your product testing.

dohouch

irishlostboy wrote: »

i am betting that the ankle of the trousers were above the tops of the boots, yes? ed, do get back to us with a verdict, so others can make an informed desision on whether or not this model of boot is suitable for their needs. it is always helpful to see when kit goes wrong, and why. good luck with your product testing.

Hi, no these cycling trousers Endural Gridlock Overtrousers I was wearing were well over the boots, and they even have a little fold out flap, not controlled by the zip, which overlaps the boots very well.


So it really wasn't a case of the rain running down into the top of the boot. Still talking to people locally and getting their experience with keeping their feet dry, and my experience does seem a bit unique.

irishlostboy

well then i guess you just struck out. bring them back and get your money back. there are plenty of better options for keeping your feet dry. these days we are spoiled for choice of good outdoor kit. every now and then you find a dud. my last dud was my sleeping bag. marmot sawtooth. i have had awful problems with it. everyone gets some dud kit sometime. so act quick and pass it back. i didn't and am stuck with a sub-par bag. learn from us idiots. lol

jusmeig

Wrap your runners up in Dunnes plastic bags....100% waterproof, 0% breathable.

No seriously, I have a pair of Salomon boots. They have never let water in...and i've been in some terrible conditions. They are not leather either, but Gortex. Very comfortable for multiple days on a trek.

Bigger problem is rain gear. I have yet to find a product that can be bought that is 100% waterproof. After 6-7 hours in beating rain, you will either be soaked through with sweat, or your rain gear will be leaking

dohouch

jusmeig wrote: »

No seriously, I have a pair of Salomon boots. They have never let water in...and i've been in some terrible conditions. They are not leather either, but Gortex. Very comfortable for multiple days on a trek.

Bigger problem is rain gear. I have yet to find a product that can be bought that is 100% waterproof. After 6-7 hours in beating rain, you will either be soaked through with sweat, or your rain gear will be leaking

Thanks for your suggestion.
Interesting about the Salomon, had ocasion to try on a pair that were on sale locally. Didn't like them enough, not sure now they were either €120, or €150.

Didn't like those Eccos either, just boght them because of the sale price. If I''m going to have to pay serious money then I'm going to have to like the boots too.
thanks

loobylou

Somewhat off topic but as the thread seems to be veering this way can people recommend a good pair of boots. The pair I have gave me 10 great years of service but have worn out. I bought them in the US but cannot find them here. Most of my walking is in the Wicklow hills so waterproofing is critical. Also plan to use them for shorter Himalayan treks, 7-10 days, reasonably low altitudes.
Would love to hear anyone's recommendations.
Mods, Feel free to start this as new thread if necessary.