which docsis modem with 802.11g support should i buy?

eokenned

Hi all,

I'm trying to rationalise a bit of hardware in my house and lower my carbon footprint. I currently have 3 routers where I think one would do.

I have NTL broadband basic and the scientific atlanta docsis router they upgraded me to about a year ago. I also have a d-link wireless router with voip ata capability which I use for blueface voip and another router cos the d-link one is a bit crap and doesn't do address translation properly.

I want to buy a new docsis router which has a few ethernet ports, 802.11g and VOIP support and thereby do it all in one box.

Has anyone done this. What should I be looking for in terms of DOCSIS 1.0/2.0/3.0/ EuroDOCSIS? Any hardware recommendations?

This one below, for example, looks like it would do the job beautifully - can anyone see any issues?
http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/GWirelessRouters/CBVG834G.aspx
only problem is when I click on the "find reseller" link it says it's not available for purchase.


I'd be really grateful for any thoughts.

Thanks,

Eoin.

Pete67

I don't think you can just buy a cable modem and plug it in - it has to be registered on the cable companies network. Most cable companies will only allow the use of their own modems as they don't want you to have access to the modem provisioning configuration data.

watty

You can buy a DOCSIS modem. But it won't work on anyone's BB system in Ireland. They will only provision modems they supply...


It's not about being awkward. Very often the billing & provisioning system only works with certain models, so they can't make it work. I know an ISP that looked at very nice Cable Modem + wifi + router. It wouldn't work with the provisioning system.

Same as with WiMax, Ripwave, Clearwire or other Fixed wireless Modems. You need to add your own separate Router/WiFi, you can't replace the modem.

Actually "real" IT experts prefer that way, putting even ADSL modem/routers into "bridge" mode and then using a separate Router or Router + WiFi etc... For example multiple WiFi points in a larger building and a CentOS based ClarkConnect router on an old PC with two network cards.

Even if you got your own DOCSIS modem and the ISP *DID* and *COULD* provision it to make it go, you still would not actually have any access to the Provisioning data unless it was a very hacked Modem. (Some ISPs won't provison that model I won't name, period).

A very few German and USA ISPs used to let you supply a modem of your own. There was even a Zoom PCI card internal Cable Modem once. But it's a huge overhead to get working, and some models may never work on some networks. It's not at all like ADSL as an ADSL modem has a dedicated connection to the exchange DSLAM. Cable modems share the same cable, hence the more complex security and provisioning.

watty

eokenned wrote: »

Hi all,
can anyone see any issues?
http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/GWirelessRouters/CBVG834G.aspx
only problem is when I click on the "find reseller" link it says it's not available for purchase.

Eoin.

Because they only sell it direct to an ISP.

Get a basic ethernet only Modem from UPC.

Get an ethernet Router with built in ATA port VOIP *outside the firewall*. If location suits then get one with WiFi too, or else use separate WiFi.

The ZyXel, Netgear, Dlink ones that do this have 4 ethernet ports. If you need more ethernet add a 3com 1Gbps Switch.

There should only be one Router unless you have multiple broadband connections.

eokenned

Thanks watty and pete for the responses.

Your last post watty makes me think you may not have understood my original post. When I say I'm trying to rationalise my hardware and reduce my carbon footprint what I mean is - I currently have the setup you describe in your last post - it works fine - I just don't want 3 pieces of hardware always on where one would do - I wastes electricity.

While I accept that from the ISPs point of view it might not be about being awkward - it is still awkward. Not being able to choose one's own hardware is a pain in the ass.

I've changed the adsl modems for other people a couple of times with no trouble so long as the unit supports PPoE.

I'm not sure what your point was about the "real" IT experts. I guess you mean IT professionals building networks for organisations with a significant amount of users covering a wide area. I accept that modularity in such a system is useful. This is not such a network and I can't think of any reason to replicate what the "real" experts do - my needs are straightforward.

Seeing as modems and routers tend to be always-on items there is a significant energy saving to be made by trying to reduce the amount of hardware in the loop. If you were to multiply this by the all of the broadband users with wireless in their homes the saving to the environment woud be significant.

I wouldn't really mind that much if NTL offered wireless broadband cable users - they could even charge a premium for it.

But not to have the capability to have one router which supports even just wireless and cable broadband (never mind the VOIP stuff) seems crazy.

I'm not sure I really buy the provisioning system excuse either - after all they were able to roll out new routers to everyone last year or the year before last without too much fuss.

Anyway - excuse me blowing off steam. I appreciate you taking the time to put the case for the ISPs. I just wish sometimes people wouldn't be so content with un-necessary limitations they set for us. If customers demanded more we'd get it.

Eoin

watty

The Carbon Foot print argument is not really valid. one box vs three of this kind of thing is tiny.

A cable modem can use as little as 6W.

An ADSL/Router/Wifi/VOIP-ATA can be 24W.

TV or Monitor: 85W to 500W depending screen size (CRT, LCD, Plasma does not actually make much difference)
Home Cinema: 20W to 500W
PC: 85W to 800W. Many are about the 400W, excluding screen.
Laptop: 40W to 150W


washing machine, tumble driers, cookers, freezers, immersion heaters, fridges, grills, kettles, heaters, microwave oven, security lights : 500W to 3000W each.

I thought though UPC/NTL do offer a WiFi/ATA/Cable Modem router? The Built in phone ports are QOS managed VOIP. You just can't use a 3rd party VOIP supplier.

Cable is really really different to ADSL. No comparision at all. On ADSL it is the connection at the exchange that is provisioned, thus any ADSL compatible device can be connected with no security or provisioning implications. Your copper pair can only be used by you.

Cable is the same cable passing each house. Part of the "ADSL DSLAM exchange" functionality is thus in the modem. The package is not set in the exchange but actually on the modem. The coax has the data of all the other cable users on it (encrypted), the copper pair has only the single user's data (unencrypted).

What you want is not feasible for cable.

I have a cable modem and I have used various different WiFi points, with and without router. I have used standalone PC based routers based on P90 running NT4 and PIII running centos. I've used combo ATA/router/WiFi. You might change WiFi to 802.11a (5.xGHz) to avoid 2.4GHz interference or congestion, You might upgrade WiFi to 802.11n for 250Mbps.. Builtin WiFi /Router on cable Modems are basic compared with those options.

I can choose all my own HW for what ever purpose, 3 boxes, 4 boxes, single combo box, except the cable modem*. The same situation applies on almost every real broadband service that is not ADSL. ADSL is unique in how it works.


To support a different model of cable modem for an ISP is a bit like an ADSL LLU operator supporting a different DSL DSLAM at an exchange. It's a lot of work to add the new modem defiiniton and test the provisioning works. It makes no difference for ADSL what modem is connected...

Fixed WiMax, Breeze, Ripwave, clearwire etc all can only use one or two different Model modem. There is no other user choice possible, no user purchase possible.

eokenned

watty,

I don't pretend to be on expert on either cable networks or electricity but I think your analysis is simplistic.

The ESB charge for electricity using something called a Kilowatt hour (kwh). An A-rated fridge freezer, which is the only other thing in my house which is on for 24h, uses under 55kwh per year. That's 55000 watts which works out at 150 watts per day.

The cable modem, using your figure of six watts, works out at 144 watts per day if its left on for 24 hours. If you factor in the power lost by the transformer for the router this slides the device right up the power consumption charts. That's before I even look at the wireless router.

The other items you mention such as microwaves, toasters and kettles indeed are much higher wattage but end up consuming less power than the router when you factor in that they're probably only used for 10 minutes per day.

By the way - I did call NTL sales and ask them if I could purchase a wireless cable router but they told me that was only for new signup customers and that I should get a netgear separate wireless router.

While I accept that cable and adsl is completely different technology I still don't really buy that it can't be done from a provisioning point of view on cable. It might very well be difficult from their perspective but surely not impossilbe.

watty

I think you find the majority of fridge freezers use more like 400 WH to 2000WH per day. Especially if fridge is at recommended 5C and freezer is -21C and people using them.

A normal family household won't notice the 144WH (not Watts per day, you can't have Watts per time, only watts x time).

Maybe you are on your own and eletricity usage is low.

Of course it's not impossible. But extraordinarly difficult. Some cable management/Provisioning systems won't work with some makes of modems at all. Easier to run MS Word on a PS3. It's totally uneconomic. For Fixed wireless systems, impossible.

If you want to do what you want, get ADSL. You may find that your all in one ADSL solution takes the same overall power anyway as Cable Modem + separate WiFi/Router/VOIP-ATA. Unless you are within 1.5km to exchange, you can't get the speed cable offers.

paulm17781

eokenned, I'm with you on this and do like the idea of rationalizing but there are a few factors to consider. eg. I use VOIP, for that, I need my phone and router and modem on all day and my phone plugged into the router. I also have my xbox connected via ethernet. Because of this I need something with at least two LAN ports and spares (I sometimes have additional things) for this alone, I don't know if there there is a Docsis modem that has wireless and a 4-port switch so I've kind of accepted this is one of my costs, I wish I could reduce it though. How long have you been with NTL? Could you cancel and resign up to get the wireless cable modem? If you do, let me know how it works.

watty

I have a DOCSIS modem with WiFi, 4 x ethernet via router and 2x phone ports. But currently it doesn't go.


Unless an ISP advertises such a thing on non-ADSL, you can be sure you can't have it.

However the desire to have such a device has been noted by several ISPs. Hence originally ADSL you only got a modem and now many ISPs actually include the WiFi & Router.

paulm17781

It'd be good if they did. It would only free up one plug socket but that can come to quite a bit of wiring. I've always wanted UPC to use the STB's as a modem (they have them built in) for the same reason. I see no need for all the kit I have and most of it will do the job of another bit.