Any atheists/agnostics out there...

diddley

dismayed by the growth of other religions like Islam and Hinduism in "the West"? I have to say it saddens me. We see the decline of Christianity and progress and hope for an irreligious world (the developed part atleast), and then these thriving "new" religions. Thoughts anyone?

Asiaprod

You are one brave person:). Are sure you want this here? Is it not an issue for the Christianity forum? And who is this "We" and are you seriously trying to equate progress with Christianity only!

Zillah

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. I think religion is awful, but I'd certainly prefer most forms of Hinduism over Christianity. Granted, Islam is even worse (yes I said it, its a horrible religion), but its looking like we're gonna have some variety of faith around for quite some time.

AtomicHorror

He's saying the decline of Christianity gave him some hope of a secular or even religion-free Europe in the future. The rise of Islam is eroding that in his view. Perhaps it didn't make much sense before he edited it?

Anyway, I disagree. The "rise" of Islam in the west is primarily due to immigration. So this is not indicative of a rise in religion in the original population. There's little evidence to suggest that Islam is being taken up by westerners on any significant scale.

I hold the view that faith-based thinking is generally on the rise in the west, but I can't back that up with numbers.

Asiaprod

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Perhaps it didn't make much sense before he edited it?
.

Bingo, I thought the OP was feeling suicidal. Death by Internet:D

AtomicHorror

Asiaprod wrote: »

Bingo, I thought the OP was feeling suicidal. Death by Internet:D

Musta been some statement... I always miss the party.

Tar.Aldarion

1.1 billion imo.

CPT. SURF

I think Westerners who take up those religions are more attached to their own romantic notions of Eastern/Middle Eastern culture and values than they are committed to actually believing the supernatural aspects of their newly selected story.

My opinion is that, and I know I could be slated for saying this, that these are generally people who have been socially, financially, and romantically unsuccessful in their own society and become antagonistic towards it. They embrace the 'goodnees' and 'purity' of cultures in which they feel they will be accepted. In essence, I believe they are looking more for friends than they are looking for God.

diddley

Asiaprod I dunno what u mean.. I only edited a spelling mistake in the post and that was it. So dunno what suicidal line u'r referring to. Anyway I know that not many Westerners convert to these religions, I'm more concerned about the thriving immigrant populations who practice.

And no I'm not racist, but I'm wary of how much they integrate (be it the governemnts fault or their own). So then logically if they don't integrate they're more likely to continue practicing..if that makes sense :P

Dades

diddley wrote: »

And no I'm not racist, but I'm wary of how much they integrate (be it the governemnts fault or their own). So then logically if they don't integrate they're more likely to continue practicing..if that makes sense :P

You're not wriong here. Lets be honest - we'd all rather not see the more "fundamental" religious types moving here and maintaining the practice. It's not a race thing - but rather the idea of Ireland becoming more religious is an anathema to those of us who would hope a more secular society.

That said, the influx of other cultures is actually opening up debate on the Catholic stranglehold on schools, and personally I've yet to have my rights withheld because of any newcomer to the country.

Live and live for as long we can, imo.

Rev Hellfire

The real risk is advent of getto-isation like in the UK where you have areas in cities which have a distinct religious ethos to them and through coercion have religious/cultural rules imposed.

anti-venom

I think Sam Harris gas it right when he says that bad ideas don't survive long in the presence of good ones. The forward march of secularism will continue despite religion's presence. Can you really imagine any reversal in European secularism because of a growing number of Muslims? Progress was made despite the presence of backward looking Christanity and it's attempts to stymie everything from birth control to astronomy.

Dades

anti-venom wrote: »

Progress was made despite the presence of backward looking Christanity and it's attempts to stymie everything from birth control to astronomy.

I hope current progress doesn't take as long as that did.

anti-venom

Oh I dunno.......from medieval stagnation to the Enlightenment wasn't really that long in terms of human generations. Religion will always have to adapt and moderate it's teachings in order to catch up with the ongoing progress of secularism. That is what they do in order to survive.

eddyc

I think that people cannot have it both ways, if they want to be a part of a secular society they cannot be at liberty to do things that go against the ideals of the society.

diddley

I'd be inclined to agree with Dades, I hope it doesnt take as long as that did. I mean, we are now an educated, modern and pretty liberal (well moreso than a lot of other countries in the world) society and I think its silly to have to wait again for another leap in progress.

I also agree with the poster above, I think the ideals of our society are much more important than certain wants of immigrants. Granted, we only have, what, one mosque in Ireland now? But what has the UK? 1,400?

I don't think it will be too easy to see the progress we are talking about here. It would be hard enough to change the mindsets of, say, a large group of very-religious Catholics from rural Portugal, for eg. I'm extrememly sceptical of what the plans are in Europe to integrate 16 million Muslims. (I'm focusing on Muslims obviously because theyre the second largest religion now in Europe). I can just about deal with Irish churches still being open :P But seriously, this new situation both frustrates and saddens me.

fitz0

I see his happening and Im annoyed a bit. I don't mind if they want to worship whoever or whatever it is they worship.

What bugs me is the really vocal ones. The ones that demand that society changes to suit them. I know they are in the minority but I have met some that feel very strongly that those who don't worship their god should, and that those that do are better than those that don't. This really bugs me.

Thank ... em god? theres not that many of them that think this way. Mostly Muslims but some fundamental christian types too (dont get me started on creationists). Although I think if the evangelical ones that hand out water on a saturday night after the disco were to go away Id be a bit put out having to pay for water.