wife woes

macca 1

Ok, here goes, I've been with my wife for 15 years, got married 5 years ago, I'm 45, she's 35, we have no kids. When we first met we had a wonderful love life, as is normal it kinda calmed down after the first year, but since we got married we've had sex about 6 times, the last time being 2 years ago. That I know is a horrendous problem, but there's worse to come. She likes to buy nice clothes, & she's very generous to her family & friends, she earns a good wage so while she could seem over generous at times I assumed she could afford to be. However a few weeks ago she started crying, and she told me she owes 63,000 euro on credit cards. We applied jointly for a bank loan ( which she would pay) to clear her debts, we have around 100,000 equity in the house & I have around 20,000 saved, but were turned down. I started to panic at this point & was thinking about leaving, but her mother, who I am very close to, has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer with a few months to live.
The only thing I can think of is to sell the house & split up. At least then she'll have enough to clear most of her debt. Has anyone any thoughts? Incidentally, I do love her as mad as she is !

SarahMc

You haven't made it clear if you want the marriage to continue. You see her complulsive spending as being a bigger problem than a sexless marriage, so if the debt was spending was sorted, you could live with the lack of intimacy?

Easy, sell the house, even if it means lowering the price, and rent. Take control of the finances.

Personally, I think there is something very very wrong if there hasn't been sex in 2 years, and your wife is probably very unhappy.

girl_friday

Get her to go to MABS (www.mabs.ie) and they will help her approach the lenders and work out a repayment plan. Its not a lost cause at this stage but you need to start sorting it out sooner rather than later!! Good luck!

Alicat

I think it's very sad that you're thinking of leaving her though. She's obviously havin' a very rough time, and I know the lack of sex for so long is awful, but she's your wife and you love her, surely you'll stick around to help her through this?

Fol20

I agree with Alicat...i think you should at least stay with her until this problem is sorted..When you got married you vowed to stick with her through the good and bad.You should at least give it another go and if she still continues to further her debt,then maybe consider leaving her.

MagicMarker

Firstly, you're NUTS for even contemplating getting a JOINT loan. Consider yourself a very luck man that you were turned down. Fair enough, she's your wife but this is her debt. I would have no problem helping her to pay it back but to legally accept half of it is just absolutely demented!!!!!!

Now the questions... Do you actually want to leave your wife, or is the lack of sex + debt just too much to handle?

It's a very difficult situation, all i can say is if you want to leave then leave. But if you love your wife then provide some kind of emotional support while her mother is sick.

I hate to bring it up, but i would be asking why there has been no sex. If you're not giving it to her, then who is? She managed to hide 63k in debt, what else can she hide?

LadyE

Very tough...you dont seem very sureabout leaving her? Has the lack of sex driven you to this and the debt the last straw?

Have yo boh discussed the lack of sex? Why there has been none etc.? I can imagine its very frustrating for you, to have had sex 6 times out of 15 year marraige is very unusual to say the least. Was anything even said in the first couple of years, then you just accepted it?

You obv love your wife, I would suggest going to Mabs, and a marraige counceller, she got you into debt to fund her generous nature to family anf friends, thats crazy...also, can all of the money spent be accounted for?

As MagicMarker said, if she hide this (which is big!) do you think there could be anything/someone else?

Best of luck with things tho, really though, esp when you throw the dying mother into the mix.

davyjose

Alicat wrote: »

I think it's very sad that you're thinking of leaving her though. She's obviously havin' a very rough time, and I know the lack of sex for so long is awful, but she's your wife and you love her, surely you'll stick around to help her through this?

Hang on, she doesn't have sex with him full stop and gets them in an almost insurmountable level of debt, and you think the sad thing in all this is that he wants to leave?
She doesn't deserve his love. Has she has most certainly not returned it. And what does Marriage mean if she can do something so stupid without telling him how much she's spending? Sounds like a sham marriage TBH. But hey, why not stick around and help give her a dig out?

Alicat

davyjose wrote: »

Hang on, she doesn't have sex with him full stop and gets them in an almost insurmountable level of debt, and you think the sad thing in all this is that he wants to leave?
She doesn't deserve his love. Has she has most certainly not returned it. And what does Marriage mean if she can do something so stupid without telling him how much she's spending? Sounds like a sham marriage TBH. But hey, why not stick around and help give her a dig out?

He let the lack of sex continue, you can't just blame the one person. Ok, she was the one that let it get like that at first but maybe the debt was the thing distracting her? Stress can put you right off sex, along with other things.

She made a mistake by not telling him about the debt earlier, but just because she made a mistake does not mean he should just walk out on the marriage. Marriage is supposed to be for better or worse, til death. I know a lot of people don't take it seriously anymore, and sometimes a divorce is necessary but he says he still loves her. For someone you love, it's worth a shot to see if it can be fixed.

Now maybe he has done everything he can possibly do to save the marriage, but we don't know the guy or the wife so we can't say, but I don't like being so pessimistic to a guy looking for advice to help him, not just the easy way out. And the end of a marriage is sad, particularly when there is still love in it, as there seems to be in this one. (note I say 'seems' because we don't know these people)

davyjose

Alicat wrote: »

She made a mistake by not telling him about the debt earlier, but just because she made a mistake does not mean he should just walk out on the marriage. Marriage is supposed to be for better or worse, til death. I know a lot of people don't take it seriously anymore, and sometimes a divorce is necessary but he says he still loves her.

So her deception and lies are honouring him, and their marriage? I think she has dumped all over the sanctity of marriage on that alone.

You say he let the lack of sex continue, now assuming they spoke about this (I mean, how many elephants in the corner can one couple avoid?) then his choices were limited to leaving her, cheating on her, or forcing her into sex. So by my reckoning he's given this marriage a fair ol' shot on that basis also.

So as far as I can see, she can do what the hell she likes, and he has no choice but to accept it and be a "loyal" husband, and have his life ruined by this debt (and never get laid). I'm sorry, but if that is what you consider "taking marriage seriously", then something has gone VERY VERY wrong somewhere.

Alicat

davyjose wrote: »

So her deception and lies are honouring him, and their marriage? I think she has dumped all over the sanctity of marriage on that alone.

You say he let the lack of sex continue, now assuming they spoke about this (I mean, how many elephants in the corner can one couple avoid?) then his choices were limited to leaving her, cheating on her, or forcing her into sex. So by my reckoning he's given this marriage a fair ol' shot on that basis also.

So as far as I can see, she can do what the hell she likes, and he has no choice but to accept it and be a "loyal" husband, and have his life ruined by this debt (and never get laid). I'm sorry, but if that is what you consider "taking marriage seriously", then something has gone VERY VERY wrong somewhere.

First of all, we are all assuming things here, that's what were are basing our opinions on. I'm basing mine on the thought that perhaps things aren't completely dead and something can be done. So maybe he didn't bring the sex thing up! We don't know!

I count taking marriage seriously as sticking with it to the best of your ability if there is a chance of salvaging it. If it's completely f*cked then fine, end it. But she has finally admitted the debt problem, maybe they can now do something about it. Perhaps MABS can help them? Perhaps some sort of financial help can be arranged? Perhaps this will show her how much her husband loves her and might wake her up/snap her out of this sh!t? Maybe even their sex life could be slowly reignited with this situation forcing them to be come closer as a couple.

We don't know! But I think it's important to stress to the OP that it doesn't have to be the end of the line for the relationship. If he really wants it to end, then he's perfectly entitled to do it, and make sure he lives the rest of life in the best way that he can. But who the hell are we to say which is which? We can only give our opinions and hope that one or more of them will help him form his own opinion, and get his life where it needs to be.

davyjose

Alicat wrote: »

First of all, we are all assuming things here, that's what were are basing our opinions on. I'm basing mine on the thought that perhaps things aren't completely dead and something can be done. So maybe he didn't bring the sex thing up! We don't know!

I count taking marriage seriously as sticking with it to the best of your ability if there is a chance of salvaging it. If it's completely f*cked then fine, end it.

Fair enough. None of us are in the position of the OP, but in the same way I would find it difficult to see a way past infidelity or physical abuse, I would, from this chair, right now, see it equally difficult to see past a situation where my OH had lied for 5 years about 63,000 Euro worth of debt (and, yes, not telling is the same as lying).
There's something extremely sinister about her ability to hide such a massive thing from him, while coupled with a complete dearth of intimacy.

wasper

macca 1 wrote: »

Ok, here goes, I've been with my wife for 15 years, got married 5 years ago, I'm 45, she's 35, we have no kids. When we first met we had a wonderful love life, as is normal it kinda calmed down after the first year, but since we got married we've had sex about 6 times, the last time being 2 years ago. That I know is a horrendous problem, but there's worse to come. She likes to buy nice clothes, & she's very generous to her family & friends, she earns a good wage so while she could seem over generous at times I assumed she could afford to be. However a few weeks ago she started crying, and she told me she owes 63,000 euro on credit cards. We applied jointly for a bank loan ( which she would pay) to clear her debts, we have around 100,000 equity in the house & I have around 20,000 saved, but were turned down. I started to panic at this point & was thinking about leaving, but her mother, who I am very close to, has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer with a few months to live.
The only thing I can think of is to sell the house & split up. At least then she'll have enough to clear most of her debt. Has anyone any thoughts? Incidentally, I do love her as mad as she is !

I think it's obvious that she prefers her family & material things to intimacy. Your marriage is dead as far as I am concerned 2 years ago. Leave this loveless marriage. Start fresh again. If you decide to stay with the wife & clear all the debts, what is stopping her from repeating the same thing.

Alicat

davyjose wrote: »

Fair enough. None of us are in the position of the OP, but in the same way I would find it difficult to see a way past infidelity or physical abuse, I would, from this chair, right now, see it equally difficult to see past a situation where my OH had lied for 5 years about 63,000 Euro worth of debt (and, yes, not telling is the same as lying).
There's something extremely sinister about her ability to hide such a massive thing from him, while coupled with a complete dearth of intimacy.

Yup, which you are perfectly entitled to think and I don't think anyone should think any less of you or the OP for it. However it is not the only answer. That is what I wanted to highlight to the OP. Only he can decide if it's worth saving, and all the hassle that will probably come with it. With a situation like this, I can only assume that the OP's head is absolutely melted and he doesn't know what to do, which is why its good if he can have his eyes opened to as many possibilites as he can.

As regards the to the debt and the intimacy problems, one could be a result of the other. If she let the intimacy die, she probably didn't feel like she could confide in him about the debt. Also, if she kept the debt to herself, all the while trying to convince herself that she could clear it without the OH ever having to know what she had done, she could have created that rift between them which led to the death of their love life.

Either way, she's not a devil woman or whatever else you may like to call her. She's a person, who made a mistake, she f*cked up big time, but maybe now is the time to redeem herself and make an effort to make things better. And she can't do that she's not given a chance. If the OP can't do that, it's ok, he has tried to the best of his ability, but if he can help this woman get back on her feet and save the marriage, the rewards in the end could be much greater than he ever imagined.

People may call that foolish optimism but we all need a bit of it sometimes to get us through the tough times.

drunkmonkey

macca 1 wrote: »

When we first met we had a wonderful love life,

Since we got married we've had sex about 6 times, the last time being 2 years ago.

Has anyone any thoughts? Incidentally, I do love her.

Macca i'm not married, I love some good sex with mrs monkey, if i think the sex finished so would the relationship, getting married to me would mean that i can really truly be uttery free with my girl (naked every time I meet her : ) ......what's gone wrong?...You still love her so you still find her attractive, correct?

Get naked rub her belly, kiss her gently, get to know that woman your so depply in love with again.......

suggest a bottle of bacardi & and a qucik dance to get the ball rolling, don't forget to tell her the story about mr bacardi's family and the tribe in africa who believe that bacardi and diet coke is a contraceptive......grab your woman, tell her you love here, and fcuk her madly...;)

davyjose

Alicat wrote: »

Either way, she's not a devil woman or whatever else you may like to call her.

It's not about her being a devil-woman, or anything like that (which I never said). It comes down to the simple fact that this woman has done things, and more importantly, kept things from him (secrets and sex -- two biggies in any marriage), which make it hard to see that she has any real love for him. Or OR else, she is incapable of offering him the things he needs to be happy.

The problem is: he doesn't have any evidence, that this is something that will cease. If the issue at hand was physical abuse, or infidelity, or one of any other number of things that make a partner's life miserable, you wouldn't be saying the above.

At the very least, it should be down to the OP's wife to make the commitment here. The "Ah don't leave her, it's your duty as a husband to see this through" sort of statement, is one which victimises her -- the wrongdoer, and puts the onus on him to assume responsibility. That's simply not fair.

trio

Well you may end up leaving her eventually, but I think first you owe yourself to try as hard as you can to resolve things.

You wouldn't be doing it for her, you'd be doing it for yourself. You still love her, and though you've had a terrible shock, I think she's still the one you want.

So sit her down and lay out how it's going to be, no ifs ands or buts.

You will attend sessions with MABS to get that debt sorted. She will do everything that MABS suggest - if they suggest cutting up the credit cards she will do that too. You can do without a credit card - I only use mine for holidays and it's unlikely you'll have one of those for a while!

If anyone can help you sort out a repayment plan, it's MABS. Whether you decide to help her repay it or not is entirely up to you. That's none of our business. She's on a good wage, and you have no dependants, which will be helpful.

Going to MABS will also help you feel less like your life is spiralling out of control. They will give you both a plan, and then it's just a matter of following it to the letter.

Another thing you should require of her is that she will also attend sessions with you with Accord, or one of the other marital counselling agencies. You need to get to the bottom of her lack of interest in sex, whether it's medical (some contraceptive pills destroy a womans libido for example) or emotional. You also need to feel more empowered yourself, and going with her to counselling will make you feel like you're actively trying to solve the problem.

She is in a position of enormous remorse at the moment, and surely will agree to those two conditions. She needs to face reality, she has jeopardised her marriage and you are deadly serious. You can only do half of it, she needs to co-operate. Let us know how you get on.

Alicat

davyjose wrote: »

It's not about her being a devil-woman, or anything like that (which I never said). It comes down to the simple fact that this woman has done things, and more importantly, kept things from him (secrets and sex -- two biggies in any marriage), which make it hard to see that she has any real love for him. Or OR else, she is incapable of offering him the things he needs to be happy.

The problem is: he doesn't have any evidence, that this is something that will cease. If the issue at hand was physical abuse, or infidelity, or one of any other number of things that make a partner's life miserable, you wouldn't be saying the above.

At the very least, it should be down to the OP's wife to make the commitment here. The "Ah don't leave her, it's your duty as a husband to see this through" sort of statement, is one which victimises her -- the wrongdoer, and puts the onus on him to assume responsibility. That's simply not fair.

Just because she f*cked up does not mean she has no real love for him! I know they were big f*ck ups but when you get yourself into a situation as bad as that, it's very hard to get yourself out of it or even work up the courage to tell someone else about it.

The finance problem; with a lot of hard work and sacrifices they should be able to work it out. The sex thing is something they'll have to work on slowly and see what happens. Sex is not always just as simple as leaping into bed with someone. With this debt hanging over her head like this, I'm not surprised she hasn't felt like sex at all. Working up 63k in debt would have taken quite a few years so this is something she has probably been living with since the start of the marriage or even beforehand. Yes she was stupid to sweep it all under the carpet and not tell anyone but it doesn't mean that she deserves to be left to suffer alone. It does not make her a bad person. Just a stupid person.

If he didn't love her then I would find more reason for him to think about leaving her but he says he loves her. This situation is salvagable! It is possible. Perhaps they won't have enough to pull through it but its certainly worth a shot. And of course there has to be a lot of effort on her part, I wouldn't expect him to stick around if she showed no remorse and went out shopping next weekend. She has admitted the problem and that is the first step. He should encourage her to make the next one.

If he decides that he can't do it then that's ok. He has his life to lead and if he thinks he'll be better without her, that's his decision. But, reverting back to my first post, I still think it's very sad. It's a sad way to end a relationship.

macca 1

Hi, it's me again. Firstly can I just say thanks very much to all of you who took the time & trouble to post replies, all of it very sensible & each point of view helpful in it's own way. Someone said my 'head must be melted', best description I ever heard, you should consider taking up counselling!
I think I'm going to wait until the mother in law is gone, leave a while for things to calm down, then take control by insisting we sell the house & rent somewhere. I'll see then if things improve by the debt being paid, the pressure being off might improve the intimacy side. If not at least I'll have done what I can before walking away. Thanks again, you have no idea how much this has helped me think straight again, I only hope you all get the same kind of support should you need it, cheers.

MagicMarker

You don't know how long it will be before the mother in law is gone. The doctors may have said months, but the human body can persevere. It could be a year, maybe years. How long are you prepared to wait?

I'm not sure if you're just looking for an excuse to delay the inevitable?

SpookyDoll

Hello Macca and sorry to hear of these trubs.

I just wanted to say really if you dig her out of this by using all the house equity she is never going to face up to the reality of what she did.....she ran up 63 grand of debt on pressies.

I dont mean she is avoiding her "punishment" -I am more worried that what she did is possibly indicitave of a serious mental health problem.

And by you aiding and abetting her in covering up the mess she will not come to terms with it and take personal responsibility for it.

Also, I do find it very difficult to believe she used up ALL this money on presents and coupled together with the lack of sex, well it could be adding up to something...

At this stage if I was you I would be asking to see her bank and credit card statements going back 5 years, I think that is a very reasonable request considering you are going to allow her use the house equity to pay off debts SHE ran up....

Are you sure you can trust her?

How do you know her mother is actually dying, God bless the poor lady, I hope not, but it seems mighty convenient timing for your wife.

OP, gather the facts objectively, see the statements with your own eyes, dont take your wifes word 100% on everything, Im sorry, its just she has lied so much already, she could be lying even now....and you could lose even more by simply believing at face value all she says...

Anyway, I do hope you get it all worked out, but before you sell that house get those facts.

Good luck OP

StormWarrior

sorry posted in wrong thread.

LegacyUser

Does she love you, has she shown in any way or form that she loves you. Do you get hugged, kissed or is the lack of sex a way for you to describe a total lack of intimacy. I really hate to say this but I'm in a similar situation but it has been 5 years. At least she has now admitted that she no longer loves me, problem here is I have children so head meltdown is in hyperdrive. However, we at least don't have the debt you carry.
At 45 to sell your home in order to clear the debts of a woman who has given you very little in return is a very serious matter to consider. If I didn't have the children I would have separated. When my wife told me she didn't love me I accepted it at first because I was so confused, even with the lack of sex I still loved her. You can confuse "love" with the feeling of "stability" or familiarity. You don't have stability because she has wiped you out. If things are bad now consider how bad they will be when you are paying rent which exceeds your current mortgage.
Send her to mabs. Then sit back and have a very long think about why you would want to stay with her and forget about all this advice about how precious marraige is, it is only special if both partners believe in it. Going on a spending spree like that and denying intimacy for so long points towards other issues - her lack of respect and love for you.

She needs to go to MABS and you both need to see ACCORD for counselling.

DON'T SELL YOUR HOUSE TO CLEAR HER DEBTS!!!!

Miss Fluff

Compulsive spending (at this level, not just someone who splurges on bags and shoes;)) is often closely linked with bipolar disorder. Has she addressed this spending with a medical professional at all?I know this isn't a medical forum but it may be worth exploring.

r3nu4l

Your wife has a lot going on mentally imo. Spending like mad is often a sign of an attempt to earn instant gratification. Ignoring the problem of debt is common to many people who don't want to face reality. The lack of sex in your marriage is also a big issue for both of you but may indicate deeper problems on her side.

Enough of the armchair psychology from me. It's obvious your wife needs help. Take her to a doctor, discuss the situation and maybe get her a referral. Take her to mabs too.

Don't give up just yet, while she has betrayed some trust in hiding the debt, sometimes people are completely lost and can't find a way out of their problems, that's when a good partner comes in to help.