A new comfy economical Auto

matsil

Hi guys,

Changing jobs next week, and I'll be doing 120km per day against the 20km per day I do now. I've got a bit of a gammy left knee that I have managed thus far with, but given the increased mileage, I'm gonna need an Auto I think. I'm currently driving a new corolla D4D saloon - so I am looking for something that is at least as comfortable and with similar (or better) fuel economy.

120km per day equates to about 20k miles / 32k km per year...... and I'll probably do a further 5-10k on top of that gonig to meetings, and personal use etc.

I'm open to all suggestions..... for example if someone reckons a 3.20d BMW on a 3yr lease will work out the same or cheaper than purchasing a more mainstream make/model because of better servicing intervals and depreciation....... then please speak up.....

The car just needs to be:
(1) Economical
(2) Comfortable
(3) Automatic (proper 5 speed auto or better)
(4) Safe and enjoyable to drive (i.e. reasonable over taking ability etc.)

Thoughts / sugesstions / open discussion please......
Cheets

Matsil

rocky

Golf DSG, a choice of engines between 122 BHP (1.4 TSI petrol) up to 170 BHP (petrol or diesel), or the 140 BHP in between

DJ Hafez

Octavia 2 litre Diesel DSG (140bhp) or maybe the VRS if you were feeling a bit sporty?

Failing that maybe an audi (same engine) or a mondeo?

bazz26

How about the Volvo S40 2.0 diesel Powershift? 136bhp and in SE trim you get among other things, full leather heated seats which some of the most comfortable around.

Another alternative would be the Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0 diesel with the DSG box.

matsil

Skoda - I like, BUT, the nearest garage is on the other side of the city and is a right PITA to get to for servicing etc........

Golf - I was thinking of a golf or even the jetta ..... never been in any but the "base" level vw's - found the seats a bit hard and uncomfortable and the sterring wheel a bit skinny and light...... a higher spec version with sports or comfort seats and a decent leather wheel might make al lthe difference though...... it has to be said though, with 30,000km interval servicing and outstanding residual values, it looks like a very strong front runner.

Volvo s40 Powershift - now that is interesting. Always liked the s40 - specially the SE version with all the toys and leather - just been tunred off by having to have a 2.5 litre for the Auto...... if they've started a 2.0.... well this is promising! And there is a Volvo garage on the route to my new job...... sounds very promising.

Audi - if I could make economical sense out of it, then it would be a runner...... have to give it a look.

Thanks guys

Matsil

ninty9er

Merc E220 CDI, just taken a 15k nosedive in list price so worth a look. Don't expect the brown nosers at the local dealer to want your Corolla though. I reckon if you got a price and put it up privately around that mark you'd be better off.

matsil

ninty9er wrote: »

Merc E220 CDI, just taken a 15k nosedive in list price so worth a look. Don't expect the brown nosers at the local dealer to want your Corolla though. I reckon if you got a price and put it up privately around that mark you'd be better off.

Agree - a nice motor indeed, and for the money its a very nice motor.... but none the less even the entry level 220cdi auto is €51,435 - which is just a little rich for me to be honest and maintenance costs (i.e. tyres, servicing, spare parts, etc.) are quite hefty...... my previous boss had a E220K - a full service with new brake pads at the front cost him nearly a grand! The 5.20D BMW is cheaper, more effecient and nicer, in my view...... but fair play, as you say, its worth a look.

Cheers

Matsil

Cionád

How about the new Skoda Superb?

Surely a trip across the city is small fry compared to the 120km daily drive?

The 520d is also a nice motor, or the diesel vRS

omerin

matsil wrote: »

Golf - I was thinking of a golf or even the jetta ..... never been in any but the "base" level vw's - found the seats a bit hard and uncomfortable and the sterring wheel a bit skinny and light...... a higher spec version with sports or comfort seats and a decent leather wheel might make al lthe difference though...... it has to be said though, with 30,000km interval servicing and outstanding residual values, it looks like a very strong front runner.

l

nothings really economical now with the price of petrol and diesel

i am looking to buy a vw comfortline around 06 or 07, are these the same seats as the base level? have you tried the sports version?

good luck with your search

matsil

Cionád wrote: »

Surely a trip across the city is small fry compared to the 120km daily drive?

Yes, you would think that - but from previous experience of driving longer distances on a daily commute, it makes you all the less enthusiastic about making non pleasure related trips anywhere in your free time......

And furthermore, when you are driving 60km each way to work, going out of your way for service etc. becomes a big deal...... i.e. I can't just take a half hour out and get a cheap rental for the day and pick it up on the way home...... it is just a nuisance that I personally couldn't deal with.

Having said that - I am not a total idiot, and if I can get a nice skoda that will save me thousands a year on purchase price (finance) alone, then I suppose I have to consider is 1 day off work to service it once a year worth several grand...... to which I suppose the answer is obvious.

and on that note....... I'll check it out and see

Thanks

Matsil

ninty9er

http://www.jaguar.ie/ie/en/x-type_new/models_pricing/pricing.htm

or

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Ford/Mondeo/2.0-TDCI/1123511/
Both are practically the same car but I'd have the Mondeo

ninty9er

matsil wrote: »

then I suppose I have to consider is 1 day off work to service it once a year worth several grand...... to which I suppose the answer is obvious.

It's going to be 2 days at least with that sort of mileage!

matsil

My god..... 35k for a jag..... DEFINITELY WORTH A LOOK!

ninty9er

matsil wrote: »

My god..... 35k for a jag..... DEFINITELY WORTH A LOOK!

40 for the auto, but still and all remember it's a Ford underneath and a previous generation Ford at that if I remember correctly.

matsil

ninty9er wrote: »

40 for the auto, but still and all remember it's a Ford underneath and a previous generation Ford at that if I remember correctly.

This is true..... and the ford would probably hold its value better :rolleyes:

ninty9er

matsil wrote: »

This is true..... and the ford would probably hold its value better :rolleyes:

There is always the Citroën C5. It's a love it/hate it car and is in Band E tax wise = €600 a year. That said for €40k you'll get hydractive suspension and probably a few cow hides, lane departure warning and bluetooth for €43k.

Citroën have put a whole lot into making sure this car is/appears to be a more solid investment than any Citroën from the recent past. I wouldn't expect depreciation to be massive, but it will be worse than a Mondeo or Jag, and slightly worse than even the Volvo (also a Ford, but a Focus rather than a Mondeo)

I'd think long and hard before spending my own money on one, but it would be on my shortlist. And after all at 40 odd k kms a year can you put a price on comfort?

matsil

ninty9er wrote: »

There is always the Citroën C5. It's a love it/hate it car and is in Band E tax wise = €600 a year. That said for €40k you'll get hydractive suspension and probably a few cow hides, lane departure warning and bluetooth for €43k.

Citroën have put a whole lot into making sure this car is/appears to be a more solid investment than any Citroën from the recent past. I wouldn't expect depreciation to be massive, but it will be worse than a Mondeo or Jag, and slightly worse than even the Volvo (also a Ford, but a Focus rather than a Mondeo)

I'd think long and hard before spending my own money on one, but it would be on my shortlist. And after all at 40 odd k kms a year can you put a price on comfort?

All very true - but to be honest, once you strat talking into the 40's it difficult to go past the BMW 3.20d for a couple of grand more or even the 3.18i for that matter which for a petrol is pretty efficient out-of-town. And there is the Audi's too starting at €41k or so for the 2.0TDi multitronic thingy. Once your talking 40's........ either of these Germans will easily pay dividends in depreciation and probably even cost less in the longer run once you factor that in.

So to that end - I suppose the up market Fords etc. probably make less sense financially..... inspite of probably being better "value" as such, given the high spec you'd get.

Does that make sense?????

DJ Hafez

SKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa :P

ninty9er

matsil wrote: »

All very true - but to be honest, once you strat talking into the 40's it difficult to go past the BMW 3.20d for a couple of grand more or even the 3.18i for that matter which for a petrol is pretty efficient out-of-town. And there is the Audi's too starting at €41k or so for the 2.0TDi multitronic thingy. Once your talking 40's........ either of these Germans will easily pay dividends in depreciation and probably even cost less in the longer run once you factor that in.

So to that end - I suppose the up market Fords etc. probably make less sense financially..... inspite of probably being better "value" as such, given the high spec you'd get.

Does that make sense?????

Oh I can completely understand where you're coming from on the financial front. But, and it is a big but. There is very little difference between ANY car on the road other than the badge on it and shape it is.

A BMW may seem tempting at 40k, but I'd have a second hand A8 before I'd have a new 320d

A Citroën is going to hit your depreciation account harder than a Beemer, but the problem in the main is that Irish drivers are disposable consumers. They don't MIND their cars and a minded C5 will be a gem while a minded 320 is more common.

If you're the type of driver who has layers of dust 5mm thick on the dash, then you want a Merc, VW, Audi or a Beemer, or even better a Toyota or Honda. But if you mind your car, wax it regularly and will own it from new, then it doesn't really matter what you buy as it will last and will be worth more than similar cars come resale time, particularly in the private sale market.

Have you considered a Jap import Camry? I've checked the Oz website and it is 233g/km Co2 so 36% VRT and €2k road tax though. Around the same price as an E-Class VRT and import duty all in!

colm_mcm

Are you seriously suggesting that a mint condition 2004 Citroen C5 is worth considerably more than a below average one?

by "considerably" I mean more than €500 extra.

ninty9er

colm_mcm wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that a mint condition 2004 Citroen C5 is worth considerably more than a below average one?

by "considerably" I mean more than €500 extra.

Worth yes....priced possibly not, but I'd certainly pay more for a mint condition one, though probably not more than €500. The same applies to most cars more than 3 years old though.

matsil

ninty9er wrote: »

If you're the type of driver who has layers of dust 5mm thick on the dash, then you want a Merc, VW, Audi or a Beemer, or even better a Toyota or Honda. But if you mind your car, wax it regularly and will own it from new, then it doesn't really matter what you buy as it will last and will be worth more than similar cars come resale time, particularly in the private sale market.

Yes, I am the type with 5mm (or more) dust on the dash. I haven't washed my January 2007 corolla yet..... I figure the dirt forms a protective film...... LOL.... :rolleyes: .... just kidding obviously about the "protective film".

But seriosuly, I look after my car in that I don't park it in stupid places, I don't hammer it, I keep it well serviced and I don't let kids eat ice cream in it.....

I am just looking at it from this point of view if I paid 40k for a new "german" and 40k for a new citroen, after 60k miles, given the same level of maintenance, the "german" will retain 50-60% of its value compared to the citroen retaining 30-40% (I'm guessing here)....... all things being equal, the "german" makes more financial sense. Just briefly looking at a C5 2.0 Diesel Auto against say an A4 2.0 TDi Auto you are talking about €38k against €41k (OTR)..... fuel consumption is going to be (country / combined cycle) 5.5 / 7.1 for the C5 against 4.7 / 5.8 for the A4.... and I'm guessing (without checking) you are into differnet road tax bands. At the end of 60k miles, I would think that the Audi will be alot more than €4k in the re-sale price, and meanwhile you have saved a fair bit on fule & tax........

In any case, having actually looked at the Skoda's list price, the price really makes them VERY attractive........ VERY attractive indeed......

This is great input from everyone - thanks - the dialog is very engaging and it kick starts the throught process......

Thanks

Matsil

ninty9er

"New" Huyndai Sonata. It's a mid life facelift. 2.0 CRDi Auto with full leather, climate, cruise control

3 year unlimited warranty and 3 years AA membership

€33k

That's value (I can't figure out if it's 5 speed though. There are 4 and 5 speed boxes from Hyundai, but I'm not sure if this is 5) It is however in tax band E (again €600)

Or more practically

Ford Focus 2.0 TDCI Ghia Saloon 6 Speed powershift Band C (€290 road tax), add leather and metallic and you're at about €28k and Cruise is standard

matsil

ninty9er wrote: »

"New" Huyndai Sonata. It's a mid life facelift. 2.0 CRDi Auto with full leather, climate, cruise control

3 year unlimited warranty and 3 years AA membership

€33k

That's value (I can't figure out if it's 5 speed though. There are 4 and 5 speed boxes from Hyundai, but I'm not sure if this is 5) It is however in tax band E (again €600)

Or more practically

Ford Focus 2.0 TDCI Ghia Saloon 6 Speed powershift Band C (€290 road tax), add leather and metallic and you're at about €28k and Cruise is standard

If the Hyundai is a 5 speed I'd certainly put it on the list......

The focus sounds alright...... not too pushed about leather to be honest, so that makes it even more affordable...... should hold its value pretty good too - off to check it out! Thanks.

matsil

The focus 2.0 powershift is definitely on the short list..... but I'd rather a 6 cd changer, blue tooth and cliamte control for my €1700 than the leather..... personally..... and at a shade over €27,000 it should be a pretty nice car..... defo on the short list as I say.....

ninty9er

Would be worth seeing if you could get a 136ps one on special order as opposed to the Ford Ireland 100ps offering.

Stevie Dakota

Before I bought my Focus 2.0TDCi (€21K) I was looking at a C5 Exclusive 2.0HDi (albeit manual) with leather (massaging/heated) and bluetooth bought up North and LANDED here all in for €32K. I couldn't justify the expense in the end given the amount of driving I do, but if I did a lot of driving then I would have jumped at it.

At least I got the same engine...:rolleyes:

mumhaabu

Get yourself either or An Audi A4 or a Lexus LS460 8 speed automatic

zod

import a six month old 520D 177 bhp ..

BrianD3

Are you 100% sure you need an auto? if your new commute is on open uncongested roads it will probably require less clutching than the average Dublin city journey.

Also are you planning on trading in your Corolla? You say it's "new" is it a 08, and if so is it a pre or post July car? This will affect how much you lose when trading in. And if it's a 07 car you may get a bad deal when trading in.

ninty9er

mumhaabu wrote: »

Get yourself either or An Audi A4 or a Lexus LS460 8 speed automatic

The LS460 misses the economical requirement. Only by a smidge though!:D

unkel

BrianD3 wrote: »

are you planning on trading in your Corolla? You say it's "new" is it a 08, and if so is it a pre or post July car?

It's January '07. See post #22

Esel

BrianD3 wrote: »

You say it's "new" is it a 08, and if so is it a pre or post July car?

As unkel pointed out, it's '07. But pre- or post-July '08 makes no difference, pre-July can opt for CO2-based road tax at next renewal.

BrianD3

Pre or post July makes a difference for VRT though. A new Corolla D4D is cheaper now than it was pre July. This affects the trade in value of a pre July car.

matsil

Yes, it will effect the trade, unfortunately - but I guess thats just tough really, coz there's nothing I can do about it.......

Lexus - slightly outside my budget I'm afraid...... not that there is a "budget" as such...... but even if I had one that would be well outside......

Cheers

Matt

matsil

Incidentally - does anyone know how much the run flat tyres cost on a BMW 3 series - the standards that come on the SE model - their either 16's or 17's..... not sure.

I'm imagining they'll cost a small firtune - got a price of €110 a piece for Bridgestones on my corolla (16's).

E92

I'd be going for the Ford.

Could anyone ring up Ford and point to the stupidity of them not bringing in a 134 bhp variant of the 2.0 TDCi, now that we no longer tax cars on engine size?

Tbh OP if comfort is more your thing you'd be best served by Volvo.

BMWs are about driving, not about comfort.

I agree with the thing about depreciation - you need something German if you want low depreciation. I would have said something Japanese but I'm not aware of any Jap diesel Auto.

The OP should be hoping to be a very good offer on his trade in - diesel Corollas are like gold dust at the moment and I'm led to believe that there's a 3 month waiting list for a new one(you'd think given that we were told 7 months in advance of the VRT changes that Toyota would have solved this problem ages ago but their loss is someone else's gain, namely Ford who have been outselling Toyota for the past month by quite a margin too) so that should help soften the blow that is first year depreciation in a car.

thebop

Think 318 tyres cost around 180

See thread below for a few nice speced 318iSE Models on Carzone at present

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055352529

Seweryn

matsil wrote: »

Yes, it will effect the trade, unfortunately - but I guess thats just tough really, coz there's nothing I can do about it.......

Lexus - slightly outside my budget I'm afraid...... not that there is a "budget" as such...... but even if I had one that would be well outside......

Why would you not buy a proper, comfortable and reliable car, like for example Mercedes-Benz made around early '90? I know, it would take a while to pick a good one, but then you are sorted with plenty of money left in your pocket. And no matter how fuel (un)efficient this car would be, you wouldn't spend as much on fuel and service (oils, etc.) than you would lose on value depreciation of the brand new car. That is just my point.

matsil

Thanks guys.

Yes, the volvo's are lovely. I have a D5 Volvo V50 on hire a few months back in the UK - I was a little disappointed with the unrefined nature of the engine to be honest, but I would be looking at the much lower poered 2 litre, which should be quieter etc.........

Ford - I was looking again at the spec - to be honest, I'd feel a bit shafted getting the mickey mouse version of the 2.0 turbo diesel...... kind of annoyed that as usual, the Irish consumer is getting stuffed.....

Older car - for a couple of reasons, I am reluctant to go down that route..... for one, I got burned on a used BMW a few years back..... well not so much burned, as very disappointed.... ltos of silly little things went wrong - it was back at the garage very month. I am the type that I like things to "work" as they are intended...... and I get very annoyed when they don't. I also like the "feel" of a "new" car - it sort f has a preciousness about it..... flakey I know, but I can't help the way they feel..... and then I am a bit of a technology buff.... and I am a bit of a victim to marketing to..... and I am VERY safety conscious and put alot of value on things with ABS and traction control, ESP, air bags etc....... and alot of the older Mercs etc. really don't do well on the safety stakes...... you'd be better off in a yaris than a late 90's C class merc...... they all combine to make me feel compelled to buy something new, or nearly new - in spite if it being insane in terms of the money you loose etc.

Cheers,

Matt

E92

matsil wrote: »

Yes, the volvo's are lovely. I have a D5 Volvo V50 on hire a few months back in the UK - I was a little disappointed with the unrefined nature of the engine to be honest, but I would be looking at the much lower poered 2 litre, which should be quieter etc.........

Oh dear - I know that it has been criticised for not being as good as 6 cylinder rivals but should be a much smoother engine than your standard 4 cylinder engine. There is no physical way possible unless somebody has managed to defy the laws of physics that a 4 pot can be as smooth as a 5 pot. If anything 5 cylinder engines are supposed to be nearly as good as straight 6 engines for refinement. OTOH being a diesel it can never have the smoothness of a comparable petrol.

matsil wrote: »

Ford - I was looking again at the spec - to be honest, I'd feel a bit shafted getting the mickey mouse version of the 2.0 turbo diesel...... kind of annoyed that as usual, the Irish consumer is getting stuffed.....

Yup, we get this all the time, being offered pint sized 1.6s in Avensis, Mondeo etc when in Britain the default engine in this category was the 1.8 but now the standard engine is a 2.0 diesel in that segment with around 130-150 bhp depending on the car. Though the Irish consumer clearly wants it as is evident by the amount of 1.6 Avensis that were sold and the fact that BMW brought in a 1.6 litre 3 series specially for us(which has thankfully been withdrawn because of the VRT changes).

Now with the new VRT rules we may hopefully end up choosing the same model as in the UK, certainly I'm not aware of any "Irish specials" when it comes to diesel engines thus far; it should be noted that the new Insignia's entry diesel model will be a 130 bhp 2.0 both here and in the UK(in the continent a less powerful 110 bhp 2.0 will also be offered but we'll be spared of it at least) so hopefully it will remain the case that they don't go importing special low powered models for us.

biggus

Try a test drive in a Prius, very high safety standards very little maintenence ,brake pads can last 100,000 miles very comfortable and relaxing to drive and low depreciation. check out priuschat.com to see what owners say. The only automatic i think in the lowest tax class.

matsil

E92 wrote: »

Oh dear - I know that it has been criticised for not being as good as 6 cylinder rivals but should be a much smoother engine than your standard 4 cylinder engine. There is no physical way possible unless somebody has managed to defy the laws of physics that a 4 pot can be as smooth as a 5 pot. If anything 5 cylinder engines are supposed to be nearly as good as straight 6 engines for refinement. OTOH being a diesel it can never have the smoothness of a comparable petrol.


Yup, we get this all the time, being offered pint sized 1.6s in Avensis, Mondeo etc when in Britain the default engine in this category was the 1.8 but now the standard engine is a 2.0 diesel in that segment with around 130-150 bhp depending on the car. Though the Irish consumer clearly wants it as is evident by the amount of 1.6 Avensis that were sold and the fact that BMW brought in a 1.6 litre 3 series specially for us(which has thankfully been withdrawn because of the VRT changes).

Now with the new VRT rules we may hopefully end up choosing the same model as in the UK, certainly I'm not aware of any "Irish specials" when it comes to diesel engines thus far; it should be noted that the new Insignia's entry diesel model will be a 130 bhp 2.0 both here and in the UK(in the continent a less powerful 110 bhp 2.0 will also be offered but we'll be spared of it at least) so hopefully it will remain the case that they don't go importing special low powered models for us.

Maybe the volvo I drove was just hammered or something - but getting into it for the first time, there was as big a difference between that and my D4D corolla as there is between the D4D and a standard 1.4 petrol!

I'd say with the new tax regime, I'd say the days of 1.6's in big saloons are numbered.

The idea that some engines are "de-tuned" simply to create a difference in horse power so they can charge you more for the higher powered one is commercially disgusting in my view - something which on principle I will not swallow - at least not "readily" swallow anyway. If they tune an engine up, to get mroe power out of it, and then charge you for that - its fair enough...... subaru WRX / STi for example....... but visa versa is sickening.

superjosh9

I drove a D5 in the new Volvo V70 - I thought it was very good and I was surprised how quiet it was, especially at idle. Maybe it has better noise insulation than the V50?

The only other diesel I've driven in recent times is the ubiquitous 1.9 VW TDI 130 in the Skoda Superb. It was like driving a tractor.

In terms of refinement, I suspect that the 2.0D in the Volvo would be more like the VW TDI than the D5, which as mentioned, is supposedly not far a 6.

Zube

I recall reading in CAR magazine that they found the D5 engine and Volvo's autobox were a bad match, they recommended getting the manual.

superjosh9

think they were just claiming that the autobox will sap power.

I drove an auto D5, it was fine. In the real world, any reduction in performance is not really that noticeable.