Private Military Companies and the Irish Defence Forces

TheVan

I'm doing a dissertation on mercenaries and Private Military Companies (PMCs) and I was wondering if anyone knows if the Irish defence forces use (or have used) any PMCs for either training or security purposes (such as security of officials etc).

Or indeed, where to find such information (short of hounding the department).

kermit_ie

Hagar doesn't allow discussion of Merceneraries or PMCs in here.

dresden8

Pity the Dáil is on holliers or you could get a parliamentary question put down.

You could always just ask them.

IRISH RAIL

kermit_ie wrote: »

Hagar doesn't allow discussion of Merceneraries or PMCs in here.

read the charter it says the hireing of mercanaries I think discussing them is important as they HAVE done a lot of GOOD over the years

backonceagain

Discussion can't do any harm It's not like anyone is looking for a contact number or anything....

TheVan

I do think its a valuable discussion to have and its important to note that PMCs are not mercenaries (discounting the more disreputable types). Also, I ain't recruiting!

I could ask the Department (and I'm sure I will) but I was just wondering if anyone knew? Do the Irish Defence Forces hire companies like Kellogg Brown and Root for logistics and transport? It would seem a logical step for the IDF seeing as we're low on cargo planes etc!

Irish_Army01

TheVan wrote: »

I do think its a valuable discussion to have and its important to note that PMCs are not mercenaries (discounting the more disreputable types). Also, I ain't recruiting!

I could ask the Department (and I'm sure I will) but I was just wondering if anyone knew? Do the Irish Defence Forces hire companies like Kellogg Brown and Root for logistics and transport? It would seem a logical step for the IDF seeing as we're low on cargo planes etc!

Firstly Its the PDF(Permanent Defence Force) and to answer your question, all Logs are carried out by units within the PDF.

Hagar

The only information you would receive on this forum is the well-intentioned contributions of posters based on their experiences in the PDF/RDF.

I wouldn't base my dissertation on hear-say. You would be better going through official channels to get the information you need. You will need to be able to back up anything you use in your paper with verifiable sources.

My guess is they won't tell you anything about security measures taken, not even under the Freedom of Information Acts. AFAIK matters of State security are exempt from the FoI Acts. I may be wrong, but if I am, it just proves me right in saying the info you get here is well-intentioned but may be inaccurate.;)

arybvtcw0eolkf

During my time (23yrs and I'm still serving) I've never heard of us using a private security company for anything.

If I did I just wouldn't answer the thread.

If you go back as far as the Congo the Irish forces certainly engaged mercenaries (white Europeans) in combat, but to my certain knowledge we never worked alongside any.

petergfiffin

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

read the charter it says the hireing of mercanaries I think discussing them is important as they HAVE done a lot of GOOD over the years

What do you base this on?? I think certainly the American experience in Iraq has been to the contrary where they have undone a lot of local work to "win hearts and minds"

Leadership

The military does use some private companies for support & training, not font line "teeth arm" activities as far as I am aware but I regularly provide consultation in a specialist support area that the Irish military has very little skills and experience in.

I also deployed with a transport unit to Kossovo just outside Pristina nearly 10 years ago while I was serving with a foreign military and was "funded" by the Irish. I know its a technicality but I was classed as a mercenary at the time as money was exchanged.

Hagar

Supporting details via PM please. Anyone could make a claim like that.

Stev_o

petergfiffin wrote: »

What do you base this on?? I think certainly the American experience in Iraq has been to the contrary where they have undone a lot of local work to "win hearts and minds"

Depends on the context really (yes im aware im going off topic sorry =( ) like in the certain hirings in Sierra Leone and Angola SOME PMC's (i actually think its just EO) did a good job on what they were asked to do. I remember reading this book when i was younger was a fascinating read at the time (http://www.privatemilitary.org/executive_outcomes_against_all_odds.html)

On topic i was under the belief that PMC are illegal in this country?

IRISH RAIL

What do you base this on?? I think certainly the American experience in Iraq has been to the contrary where they have undone a lot of local work to "win hearts and minds"

How about executive outcomes in sierra leone

petergfiffin

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

What do you base this on?? I think certainly the American experience in Iraq has been to the contrary where they have undone a lot of local work to "win hearts and minds"

How about executive outcomes in sierra leone

OK OK....I think it would probably be best not to get into a debate about this as we'd only end up hijacking the thread as I do think there are lots of points that could be debated about PMCs/Mercenaries.

As for the original question, the answer probably depends on what emphasis is put on the M in PMC. Do you mean companies like Blackwater providing boots on the ground with Irish troops or a company providing training which in it's nature could be military or non-military? I'd say give the Dept of Foreign Affairs a shout or even NGOs like Amnesty International might have info

Leadership

I sent this to Hagar, nothing that breaks the Non Disclosure Agreements I have so I might as well publish it.

Basically to substantiate the work I do for the military (& Garda) without going into detail is IED / Landmine disposal techniques/awareness and incident scene command and control (Leadership).

My history is 17 years British military service with 12 of those years serving as a bomb disposal officer. I served in the first Gulf war and then from late 91 I basically spent most my time on tour in Bosnia serving as an in country expert on land mines. At my peak I was the lead UN officer followed by NATO commander of all Landmine and IED awareness/removal/training for Balkans. In 99 or 2000 I spent 6 months hosted by the Irish transport company in Pristina, Kosovo after providing the in country awareness training material and continuation training of the small Army Bomb Disposal unit in country. At the time the Irish military had not faced such a high risk for Landmines so it was my role to bring them up to speed fast.

I was the victim of a mine blast in Bosnia late 2000 so there ended my front line career in the fight against landmines/IED's.

I now work privately splitting my time between MGM mines a private NGO and my role is developing project plans and remote supervision of mine clearance operations. I am at the moment working hard on a few Vietnamese projects. I also work privately lecturing various military units globally on the leadership of high pressure teams and the latest techniques for the clearance of landmines. More recently the trend is for IED's/suicide bombers and how to deal with them effectively and safely.