Finding the right site?

jwt

I'm curious as to how people find THE right site for themselves.

Obviously some people are gifted sites or buy from relatives but for everyone else what was the process.

We are looking at the moment and we have two areas we earmarked but looking on daft or sitesforsale there is nothing of interest.

Do you knock on farmers doors, ask in the pub, check the local rag?

Or would getting in touch with a local conveyancing solicitor or architect be fruitful.

We have even scoured the online planning archives to see where in the are planners are allowing sites and where permissions for outline planning applications are being submitted.

We are at the point of moving into the area, renting, but the worry is that after a year or so we'll still not have found a site.


JWT

Builderfromhell

Where are you hoping to move too?

smashey

I know quite a few people who have knocked on farmer's doors and eventually got a site. Most estate agents will have sites for sale, some with outline or full planning.

muffler

jwt wrote: »

I'm curious as to how people find THE right site for themselves.

Obviously some people are gifted sites or buy from relatives but for everyone else what was the process.

We are looking at the moment and we have two areas we earmarked but looking on daft or sitesforsale there is nothing of interest.

Do you knock on farmers doors, ask in the pub, check the local rag?

Or would getting in touch with a local conveyancing solicitor or architect be fruitful.

We have even scoured the online planning archives to see where in the are planners are allowing sites and where permissions for outline planning applications are being submitted.

We are at the point of moving into the area, renting, but the worry is that after a year or so we'll still not have found a site.


JWT

Finding a site will entail a bit of everything you mentioned above and it can be a bit hit and miss - more miss really.

Finding the right site could probably entail all of the methods you mentioned. If you are prepared to offer an extortionate amount of money then you may find one a bit quicker. Just keep looking and see whats on offer and what location suits your needs. Your house should be designed to integrate with both the landscape and any adjacent housing developments.

2 things to watch out for. If for example you have your heart set on a 2 storey house then you need to be looking at sites that are adjacent to existing 2 storied houses are where there is an established precedent for that particular house type.

You should also check the County Development Plan and its rural housing policies and determine if you are eligible to build in that particular area. I assume you are talking about a rural site.

jwt

We are looking at mid Wexford near gorey.

AFAIK (I'm open to correction on this) section 47 in Wexford is a 5 year occupancy clause rather than the more restrictive local needs, you must be 50 generations living in area that you find in Wicklow.

http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/CountyPlan/Thefile,612,en.pdf

Rural Housing

Section 5.16
In general rural housing will not be permitted in the open countryside with the exception to this being:
• Single rural houses and clusters provided that such properties are occupied as the owner’s permanent place of residence and subject to complying with all
other appropriate planning requirements.

Section 5.17
All planning permissions granted for housing on unzoned land, with the exception of development referred to in Section 5.17.1, shall be subject to an occupancy condition, pursuant to Section 47 of the Planning and Development Act 2000.

In the case Planning Permission for one-off houses, a condition will be attached stating that the application for Planning Permission will require applicants to sign a Section 47 agreement restricting the use of the dwelling to the applicant and their family, as a place of permanent residence.

In the case of Outline Planning Permission for one-off houses, a condition will be attached stating that the application for Permission Consequent to Outline Planning Permission will require applicants to sign a Section 47 agreement restricting the use of the dwelling to the applicant and their family, as a place of permanent residence.

In the event of cluster developments, this Section 47 agreement shall be attached by way of condition to the first occupier of each dwelling.

The period of occupancy shall be for a minimum period of five years from the date of the first occupation. Any subsequent owner of the property shall not be favourably considered for planning permission by the planning authority for residential property on any unzoned land, until the expiry of the initial ten year period referred to in section 5.16. The dwelling must be occupied as the subsequent owner’s place of permanent residence. The planning authority will include a condition on all such residences restricting the continued use of the dwelling to use as a permanent-primary residence.

Section 5.17.1
The requirement that an applicant be a permanent resident of a dwelling and enter into an Occupancy Agreement shall not apply in the four towns, and in and adjacent to the core of existing villages on the list of villages contained at the rear of this appendix entitled ‘List of Villages’. The scale of development in the villages will depend on the existing scale of the village and the level of social and other infrastructures available.

Have very few preconceived ideas about the house until a site is located. Plan is to get a local architect who has experience in the area, present him with a montage of ideas, pretty pictures and bizarre wish lists.

We'll let him or her separate the wheat from the chaff and come up with a design that satisfies the planning people and our requirements.

It appears in the area dormers are fine, two storey in dips or sites screened by existing mature tree/forests are OK in some cases three storeys are ok where the site is particularly sunk or surrounded immediately by rises, ribbon forest (no idea of the right term for that) or the site is artificially lowered to sink the first floor at least 3/4 into the site.

JWT

pubpub

Hi bit of an expert on this (we tried planning on three different sites!) we asked around which was fustrating, but was really the best way - word of mouth got around and people kept an ear out for us and also we found one site by an ad in the local newspaper and a local farmer got in touch with us.

damiand

Around Gorey there is an exclusion zone wher only local can apply. Any outline planning permission granted prior to May 2007 will not be effected by this restriction however.

Gorey is full of Auctioneers and any property web site will have hundreds of sites in the North of Wexford. very expensive around that area however. 1/2 acre sites were about €50,00 (min) this time last year in that area. Dont know now.....

Luuca

I looked around for 2 years and eventually the site I always wanted went up for sale, my offer was excepted straight away, I always loved the site because of the spectacular views since I was a kid but 7 people were refused planning permission on this site.

I got Planning first time round. The tracking machine was moved in on the site today to start the foundations tomorrow....

Quazzie

damiand wrote: »

very expensive around that area however. 1/2 acre sites were about €50,00 (min) this time last year in that area. Dont know now.....

That aint too expensive a 1/2 acre site beside mine was just sold for €130,000. Offaly area.

Do-more

It might be worth your while looking at existing houses and cottages, with a view to knocking and building again.
With the fall in house prices many run down properties are coming on the market at more realistic prices and you should find that planning for a replacement will be easier than for a new build.

Do-more

Do-more wrote: »

It might be worth your while looking at existing houses and cottages, with a view to knocking and building again.
With the fall in house prices many run down properties are coming on the market at more realistic prices and you should find that planning for a replacement will be easier than for a new build.

A practice known as "Bungalow gobbling" in the UK, as in most rural areas it's the only way to get a site.

Do-more

Deleted User wrote: »

A practice known as "Bungalow gobbling" in the UK, as in most rural areas it's the only way to get a site.

And it's a lot more restrictive in the UK AFAIK, there planners will normally only allow the replacement house to have the same sq. fottage as the one it replaces, thankfully the planners here haven't come up with that restriction yet.

jwt

Site prices south of Gorey range from 200K for a 3/4 acre with FPP to 150 for 3/4 acre subject to PP all the way down to 80k for a site subject to PP but which has been refused umpteen times before.

Sites seem to be holding their value better than houses and realistically you are looking at 130-150k for a site.

Obviously the further way from any infrastructure the cheaper the site but with house prices the way they are now I could buy a new house just built on a site for less than I could ever hope to buy and build for.

As an example one site I looked at was 175k for 3/4 acre subject to PP. Right next door was a lovely dormer 3000 sq foot, brand new on 1 acre going for 400k

Obviously asking price versus actual selling price can vary a bit but sites seem very overpriced at the moment.

Couple that with the vagaries in LA planning decisions, it's like the lottery, I'm not even sure that researching an area or sites nearby would reveal any useful indications as to whether planning permission was even likely.


JWT

Kashkai

My 2 cents worth.....................

Buy an elevated site. Why??? See the flooding last weekend in Dublin and Kildare.

There's a lovely 3/4 acre site across the road from my house thats been undeveloped since I moved into the area. Now there are houses either side of it so I was wondering why this piece of land is still free of development. I got my answer on Saturday when the deluge came and this piece of land was submerged under 2 feet of water along with the road outside my house and the bottom 1/5 of my front garden. As my site is elevated, the flood would have to have been almost 3 metres deep before it reached my doorstep. However, my neighbours across the road weren't so lucky and they had to sandbag their doors to try to keep the water out, which they managed though it was a close run thing. Even though their house has 3 high steps at each door, the water got to within 2 inches of the threshold.

So no matter how lovely the setting, check if the land is a floodplain, at the bottom of a hill, in a valley or adjacent to a river. No point in having the dream house if you are at risk of getting flooded. You'll never get insurance and you'll be lucky to sell it on.

Do-more

Do-more wrote: »

And it's a lot more restrictive in the UK AFAIK, there planners will normally only allow the replacement house to have the same sq. fottage as the one it replaces, thankfully the planners here haven't come up with that restriction yet.

On paper, yes! But I know of many that got around that by building up & down, so remove 900ft2 bungalow replace witn 1800ft2 two storey plus basement.

Do-more

jwt wrote: »

Site prices south of Gorey range from 200K for a 3/4 acre with FPP to 150 for 3/4 acre subject to PP all the way down to 80k for a site subject to PP but which has been refused umpteen times before.

Sites seem to be holding their value better than houses and realistically you are looking at 130-150k for a site.

Obviously the further way from any infrastructure the cheaper the site but with house prices the way they are now I could buy a new house just built on a site for less than I could ever hope to buy and build for.

As an example one site I looked at was 175k for 3/4 acre subject to PP. Right next door was a lovely dormer 3000 sq foot, brand new on 1 acre going for 400k

Obviously asking price versus actual selling price can vary a bit but sites seem very overpriced at the moment.

Couple that with the vagaries in LA planning decisions, it's like the lottery, I'm not even sure that researching an area or sites nearby would reveal any useful indications as to whether planning permission was even likely.


JWT

The price of sites will adjust over time and it's already happening to some extent. The Co.Co. recently had two 1 acre sites for auction about 2 miles outside of Mullingar on the N52 they were guiding €130,000 one sold for €105,000 and the other failed to attract any bids!

In the Mullingar there is a row of 7 sites each with full planning for a 2,800 sq ft. 2 storey, last year they were asking €300,000 a piece, sale was agreed on the lot but it fell through, one was offered for sale recently to test the market and was priced at offers over €150,000 + VAT and eventually sold for €170,000 + VAT even at that price it's unlikely whether the value of the finished house would be greater than the build and land costs.

You just have to keep an eye on prices and play the waiting game....

Country-Bumpkin

Hi OP,

I am in the same area as you and we were gazumped on 2 sites before we found the one we are now in the middle of building. Basically, we called in to the local architects & solicitors office and they told us of a site which was for sale. I think they tend to know before the estate agents as they are either drawing up plans for it or contracts to sell it! in the end, we bought it privately so didn't have to worry about excess fees to anyone else.....worked out great for us! Also, dont be afraid to go knocking on doors, most farmers looking to sell wont want to go through estate agents either.

Good Luck