Help with Analog Reception after DTT

Paul Kiernan

I'm about 3 miles from Three Rock and have had a fabulous DTT reception up to last night. However, alas, they've switched off the digital and left me high and dry. My analog reception is a bit like coloured snow at best, modern art at worst. I'm using a Philex aerial from the attic - see http://www.argos.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=30001&catalogId=1500001201&langId=-1&searchTerms=5352069&x=0&y=0

Anyone any advice on what I might do to get a picture I can look at from the Irish stations?

Thanks, Paul

stevethesatguy

you will need to put up an aerial on our roof wb type should be ok

scath

This is answered in other threads..but no bother..DTT will be back up on Monday in MPEG4 encoding. Is your TV MPEG2 or 4? Look at the manual. So looks like if you are not high and dry, just so for the weekend. Dunno when on Monday, but a rescan will pick em up. The question is, were you sold a poke of a digital TV with no MPEG4.

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

I'm about 3 miles from Three Rock and have had a fabulous DTT reception up to last night. However, alas, they've switched off the digital and left me high and dry. My analog reception is a bit like coloured snow at best, modern art at worst. I'm using a Philex aerial from the attic - see http://www.argos.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=30001&catalogId=1500001201&langId=-1&searchTerms=5352069&x=0&y=0

Anyone any advice on what I might do to get a picture I can look at from the Irish stations?

Thanks, Paul

Paul Kiernan

My decoder is a Sony RDR-HXD870 DVD Recorder. The spec just says DVB-T for digital TV transmission standard. It records in MPEG-2 format but I don't know if that's relevant! I'll certainly try rescanning on Monday.

I remember years ago I could get a pretty good reception on RTE just using rabbits ears - what's changed?

Thanks, Paul

mikedelaney16

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

I remember years ago I could get a pretty good reception on RTE just using rabbits ears - what's changed?

Your antenna has changed

If you still have the rabbits ears try them.

You should probably also read watty's posts from http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055327458 post number 2
and
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055346040 post number 4

Perhaps watty or someone else can put together a little how-to and make it a sticky.

Paul Kiernan

No, Mike, I'm not buying that! I tried rabbits ears and the reception was even worse!

scath

So you don't have a digital TV set then? Just a DVD recorder with digital tunner. Your recieved no problem because the video encoding was MPEG2. These are being discontinued because MPEG4 allows more channels for the same spectrum of radiowave.

Recording in MPEG2 doesn't sound promising. If you get no signal when the we report reception, you'll know that you don't have MPEG4 ready DVD recorder. Buying a set top box with MPEG4 might be cheaper than an outdoor aerial if you got it without it before. You'll still have to get MPEG4 equipment (set top box) decoder box or Digital TV either now or in 2012 when analogue switches off A set top box with MPEG4 will decode the digital signal into analogue for your analogue TV set. Digital Tv sets don't require decoders as they are digital TVs. The set is more expensive option but also eliminates the need for 2 remotes and 2 levels of audio control.The cam option other posters note is expensive that coverts MPEG4 into MPEG2.

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

My decoder is a Sony RDR-HXD870 DVD Recorder. The spec just says DVB-T for digital TV transmission standard. It records in MPEG-2 format but I don't know if that's relevant! I'll certainly try rescanning on Monday.

I remember years ago I could get a pretty good reception on RTE just using rabbits ears - what's changed?

Thanks, Paul

Mayo Exile

Poor analogue reception: check all your connections and the quality of the coaxial cable you are using? Check for sharp bends or kinks in the cable. If there are some it could be damaged. As other posters have said, put your aerial outside.

Also check you are actually tuned properly to Three Rock. All are UHF wideband, horizontal polarisation. Channels are: RTE1 - 29, RTE2 - 33, TV3 - 35, TG4 - 55. Also Paul, make sure the aerial in the picture you supplied is installed exactly it looks in the picture. It shows the aerial set up for a horizontally polarised UHF signal.

As for the DVD recorder mentioned, it definitely seems MPEG2 only. Looking at page 160 under the specs/video recording format it states MPEG2 and MPEG1. No sign of MPEG4 at all. The transmission standard is given as DVB-T.

Link to manual (PDF format): http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3113760121.pdf

mikedelaney16

If you have a digital camera handy, it might be an idea to take pics of your best and worst reception and up them to photobucket then link to them in a post so we can actually see what the reception is like.

Paul Kiernan

Yes, those are the channel numbers I'm tuned to so definitely 3 Rock! Also I'm set to horizontal polarisation! Am I right to aim at 3 Rock? Is there another transmitter I could use? I'm in Leopardstown, about 3 miles ENE of 3 Rock. I wouldn't have clear access to say, Kippure. Haven't got a camera but I'm talking dreadful reception, completely unwatchable! TG4 is probably the best with RTE1 the worst!

Mayo Exile

Kippure could be worse for you! RTE 1 and RTE 2 are on VHF from there. The aerial you have wouldn't be any good I think. However you could try for TV3 and TG4. They are on channels 62 and 59, horizontally polarised. Try, and see what you get!

Do you live in a two story house? Try the aerial near a south facing window. Can you see Three Rock at all?

Might have to consider cable if nothing works. Is it available where you are?

mikedelaney16

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Yes, those are the channel numbers I'm tuned to so definitely 3 Rock! Also I'm set to horizontal polarisation! Am I right to aim at 3 Rock? Is there another transmitter I could use? I'm in Leopardstown, about 3 miles ENE of 3 Rock. I wouldn't have clear access to say, Kippure. Haven't got a camera but I'm talking dreadful reception, completely unwatchable! TG4 is probably the best with RTE1 the worst!

I'm walking distance from Deansgrange, Cornelscourt and Cabinteely, so a little farther from the transmitter than you. I also doubt you'd get Kippure from there, but if you want to try, it's RTE1 Ch E Band 3, RTE2 Ch H Band 3, TV3 Ch 62 UHF, TG4 Ch 59 UHF, all horizontal.

When you say dreadful reception, do you mean it's snowy or do you mean it's all double images, ghosts and distortion?

It just occurred to me that some of those new buildings around Leopardstown and Sandyford Industrial estate could be a problem too. Are any of them between you and Three Rock? Or are any in a location that could cause multipath distortion?

Paul Kiernan

Reception is just snowy, no sign of double images or ghosting. Sound is poor too. NTL is available but I'm damned if I'm paying them close to 400 euro per year! I already have all the UK stations on free satellite so it's only RTE I'm after!

Mayo Exile

Tried Kippure as suggested or placing aerial near south facing window?

Paul Kiernan

Aeriel in attic so to try Kippure or south facing window will involve dragging chest of drawers onto landing and bringing up kitchen chairs which won't go down well with missus tonight! I could try it tomorrow.

Mayo Exile

Oops! Forget the window option for now then. Still try for Kippure without going near aerial for the moment though. TV3 on 62 and TG4 on 59 as mentioned above.

Paul Kiernan

No, it's not picking them up at all! I'll try pointing the aerial that way tomorrow and see if I have any luck. Mind you, it's really RTE I want so I'd need a VHF aerial for that from Kippure.

mikedelaney16

Nah, moving furniture is best left to poltergeists and people looking for a divorce

But do look back at one of my previous posts where I added a question about the new buildings in your area. Though they may not be new to you anymore, they may not have been there last time you successfully used rabbit ears.

I still consider them new, they mostly weren't there when I left the country in 96.

Mayo Exile

Yes. Kippure wouldn't be an option especially if it's RTE 1/2 you really want. Your current aerial won't do the job.

Also as mentioned earlier, getting your aerial properly installed outside seems like your best bet for decent reception from Three Rock.

mikedelaney16

It does look that way Mayo Exile, but the thing that gets me is Paul lives in an area where Three Rock should almost produce a usable signal with a paper clip for an antenna. The transmitter tower probably casts a shadow on his house around 2-3 PM on winter afternoons.

Mayo Exile

Yes it's a head scratcher alright! As you have mentioned it could be down to buildings interference. I also think he should still check connections and the state of the coax cable to eliminate that as a reason.

Paul Kiernan

I've put some pictures, as suggested, on photobucket - http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e95/paulkiernan/tv/. I can see Three Rock from my kitchen window and there are no buildings in the way. A few trees block the view but that shouldn't effect the signal. Connections all seem fine and I've tried plugging in and out, etc. I think Kippure is out because three rock actually blocks me from it. Frankly, I would expect the paperclip to give me a reasonable reception, with a bent coathanger for a really good picture. In fact I might try a bent coathanger!

mikedelaney16

Paul,

Is your antenna cable running straight to your TV or looping through your DVD recorder?

Paul Kiernan

It's looping through. However, I have two analogue receivers, one in the DVD recorder and one in the TV itself. The reception is pretty much the same (i.e. crap) on both of them.

homer911

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

I've put some pictures, as suggested, on photobucket - http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e95/paulkiernan/tv/. I can see Three Rock from my kitchen window and there are no buildings in the way. A few trees block the view but that shouldn't effect the signal. Connections all seem fine and I've tried plugging in and out, etc. I think Kippure is out because three rock actually blocks me from it. Frankly, I would expect the paperclip to give me a reasonable reception, with a bent coathanger for a really good picture. In fact I might try a bent coathanger!

I'm in Stillorgan and have much the same reception on a Sony Bravia LCD. On another post recently someone said that analogue on LCD will never be as good as analogue on CRT, but dont know why. I have a portable CRT with a circular aerial which gets perfect reception!

Rabbit's Ears

When you say you used to get good analogue reception do you know exactly when this was? Can you replicate the set up you had then? It may be relevant as changes were made to the TV transmission antenna at Three Rock in recent years. There's another possibility to consider. If you're living very close to the mast, your receiver may be overloaded. You may need to attenuate the signal before the receiver connection. If all this fails, DTT transmissions will be back up next week. However, its likely to be Wednesday rather than Monday and it will be on MPEG4.

mikedelaney16

Rabbit's Ears wrote: »

When you say you used to get good analogue reception do you know exactly when this was? Can you replicate the set up you had then? It may be relevant as changes were made to the TV transmission antenna at Three Rock in recent years. There's another possibility to consider. If you're living very close to the mast, your receiver may be overloaded. You may need to attenuate the signal before the receiver connection. If all this fails, DTT transmissions will be back up next week. However, its likely to be Wednesday rather than Monday and it will be on MPEG4.

Replicating the old setup could be of immense value. Or at least trying with a different TV, perhaps a portable.

But as for overload...



It definitely doesn't look like overload. That was my first thought too from Paul's original description, that's why I asked him to post pics.

Now it transpires we have two people with similar reception problems in fairly close proximity to each other.

Meanwhile my RTE analogue from the same transmitter looks like this:



Contrary to what my shaky low light photo would indicate, it is clear and crisp with my antenna lying on an armchair not more than 2.5 ft from the floor and not more than 4 ft from the ground. In another room at the back of the house I still get a better picture than Paul's with a broken set-top antenna, you know the stupid little wire loop things with the ribbon connector. That photo was taken by pointing my camera at my SEG LCD TV.

There are a number of possibilities, from less to worse they are:
1. Feeding into the wrong input.
2. One or more bad connections.
3. Faulty or substandard cable. (You wouldn't believe some of the cables I've seen.)
4. Faulty antenna.

I wont list the rest, they're too scary.

Paul Kiernan

I think it was about 15 years ago that my only aerial was a rabbits ears in the attic! I had perfect reception on RTE and was happy with that!

Mike, your picture looks stunningly good compared to mine! Is it possible that Three Rock signal is directional and I'm too far South or East to pick it up especially as Homer in Stillorgan has same problem?

I don't believe the problem is connection related as I've tried two different receivers(TV and DVD-Recorder), two different aerials(UHF in attic and rabbits ears) all with similar results!

Does anyone have maybe a map showing coverage of various transmitters e.g. which one should you use if you're in Donnybrook, Bray, Greystones, Newtownmountkennedy, etc.???

mikedelaney16

You could take a look at
http://www.irish-tv.com/threerockplot.gif
http://www.irish-tv.com/kippureplot.jpg
and
http://www.irish-tv.com/clermontplot.jpg
But I certainly wouldn't bet too much on their accuracy. Their overall representation is probably quite good, but they're way too small to be of any practical use.

Clermont Carn would be very marginal, but might be possible with the right setup. I still think you should be able to get Three Rock.

What kind of TV are you using?

Do you or any of your neighbors have a portable you could try?

macplaxton

FWIW I have a low gain 15 yoyo B&Q yagi in the loft and I'm in Lucan - ten miles as the crow flies to Three Rock. Get a perfectly good analogue picture even with the signal split between two sets.

Only problem I've been seeing tonight is pixelation on TV3.

I would go back to check you connections. I get a picture like that with no aerial!

Paul Kiernan

My TV is a Panasonic 42PV7 Plasma. Great Telly (when given a decent source!).

Thinking the signal might be too strong I've tried turning aerial away from Three Rock slightly (just gets worse). I also tried putting an adjustable 20db attenuator on the signal (and it gets progressively worse as I increase the level of attenuation) so signal is apparently not strong enough.

In summary, I can only assume I'm in a pocket of bad reception due to topography! I think I'll refuse to pay my TV license in protest!

Thanks to everyone for their replies so far.

Antenna

If the problem in this thread is genuine, try connecting the aerial directly to TV rather than looping through the DVD recorder (there may be an issue there)

I would imagine the issue here (if genuine) is simple to resolve, you have not had someone in the TV/aerial trade, or other knowledegable person, have a look at the problem..

Are you just stirring up a non-existant problem with analogue reception because of annoyance over MPEG2 DTT being discontinued? All your 11 posts so far have purely been in this thread?

TheDriver

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

My TV is a Panasonic 42PV7 Plasma. Great Telly (when given a decent source!).

Thinking the signal might be too strong I've tried turning aerial away from Three Rock slightly (just gets worse). I also tried putting an adjustable 20db attenuator on the signal (and it gets progressively worse as I increase the level of attenuation) so signal is apparently not strong enough.

In summary, I can only assume I'm in a pocket of bad reception due to topography! I think I'll refuse to pay my TV license in protest!

Thanks to everyone for their replies so far.

A TV licence is for owning a tv, nothing to do with reception.

Paul Kiernan

I've tried connecting aerial directly, reception is the same (awful!).

Yes, I am annoyed the DTT has ended, I think maybe they could have left one mux switched on with the free channels. Practically every TV sold in Ireland in recent years has a freeview tuner and many people have come to rely on it! While not adapting same standard as UK may seem very forward thinking, it does mean Irish people will have to pay more for digital TV.

The purpose of forums like this is that people can get assistance without going to the expense of calling in an expert from the trade. I assumed that being able to see the transmitter from my kitchen window, using a 48 element UHF aerial I'd get a decent picture - I don't! To me it is a genuine problem!