House Heating - three pronged approach

rosullivan

I am building a new house (old house renovation and extension). I plan my heating system will be as follows:

1. Solar panels on a south facing roof - to heat hot water only (triple coil 300l water tank)
2. Multi-fuel (wood, coal, etc.) stove with a back boiler in the living room - to heat radiators and hot water
3. Condensing oil boiler - to heat radiators and hot water.

Our logic is this: In the summer when we don't need central heating, the solar panels will provide the hot water we need. In the winter, if it is cold we will light the multi-fuel stove which will heat the room we are in and will heat the rads and the water. If we only want a quick boost of heat without firing up the stove, or if we just want to top up the hot water, we can switch on the oil boiler for half an hour.

Has anyone done this already? Did it work? What would you do differently now? Did you get one plumber to do everything, or one plumber and one solar panel installer? What is a good efficient brand of multi-fuelstove? Why so many questions?:)

RKQ

Perfectly sound logic! It would seem to be quite standard.

Most people would install a back boiler / wood stove to heat room & rads.
Most would install oil to heat house & water in the early morning or as a boost to the back boiler.

Solar is great in summer to meet / exceed your hot water requirements.
Great not to have to light a fire / turn on immersion in the summer, just to heat the water.

I didn't put a back boiler stove in. We have a great stove that heats the room (big open plan room) but I would definitely put in a back boiler / stove to heat rads.

The one Plumber should be able to install everything. Try to get at least 3 quotes!

Belgium stoves are contempory, technically advanced and reliable multi-fuel. A lot of European stoves are wood burners only and don't have back boilers!

Again, as with everything, shop around. Prices vary greatly.

rosullivan

RKQ wrote: »

Perfectly sound logic! It would seem to be quite standard.

Most people would install a back boiler / wood stove to heat room & rads.
Most would install oil to heat house & water in the early morning or as a boost to the back boiler.

That's good to hear thanks. I only know of one other person who has this combination, so good to hear that it is common. That should make it easier, and cheaper.

JohnBoy

This is the exact combo we're thinking of for our house.

my concern relates to wasting heat through the inactive circuits.

will the solar panel be heating the boiler on a summers day or will the stove be heating the solar panel above on the roof on a winter's night?

ordinarily such problems could be controlled with electronic valves, but my understanding is that these cannot be used with a backboiler as the system needs to be failsafe in the case of a powercut. is this true?

Slates

This is exactly what I am doing

3 coil 300l cylinder

Bottom coil-solar
Middle coil-solid fuel stove
Top coil-condensing oil boiler

The solar circuit is independant so is not a problem, the trick is getting the oil boiler and the solid fuel circuits to link up,(soild fuel has to be gravity fed and thermosyphoning) I'm going to use a Systemlink 5 as this will have 2 intakes and provide 3 zones, Ground flool, 1st floor and DHW.

rosullivan

Slates wrote: »

This is exactly what I am doing

3 coil 300l cylinder

Bottom coil-solar
Middle coil-solid fuel stove
Top coil-condensing oil boiler

The solar circuit is independant so is not a problem, the trick is getting the oil boiler and the solid fuel circuits to link up,(soild fuel has to be gravity fed and thermosyphoning) I'm going to use a Systemlink 5 as this will have 2 intakes and provide 3 zones, Ground flool, 1st floor and DHW.

Out of curiosity,what solid-fuel stove and what solar panel are you going for?

Femelade

This is what my boyfriend is doing in his house too.
Oil burner, solar panel and the stove..
but i HATE stoves, especially in the sitting room..i just think its not very cosy looking...I think they look UGLY..and i really dont want one..atall!!
Can we just install a back burner in the fireplace and light the fire as normal?? i mean i know they say that most of the heat goes up the chimney but, doesnt some of it go up the chimney with the stove too?

Slates

rosullivan wrote: »

Out of curiosity,what solid-fuel stove and what solar panel are you going for?

I'm going with CPC collectors from Solarfocus and I'm thinking of using a Stanley Erin Multifuel stone but the war office now wants something more contemporary :rolleyes:

rosullivan

Femmy wrote: »

This is what my boyfriend is doing in his house too.
Oil burner, solar panel and the stove..
but i HATE stoves, especially in the sitting room..i just think its not very cosy looking...I think they look UGLY..and i really dont want one..atall!!
Can we just install a back burner in the fireplace and light the fire as normal?? i mean i know they say that most of the heat goes up the chimney but, doesnt some of it go up the chimney with the stove too?

I think you can do that, but you are talking about a serious construction job to install a back boiler on an open fireplace (unless it'sa new build?). I may stand corrected, but I don't think they are as efficient as a stove. I agree with you about the stoves - at least I used to - the modern stoves with a big, clear air-washed window at the front are almost as cosy as an open fire, but much, much, much more efficient. You still see the flames, you still get to throw logs on it and you still have to empty the ash-tray in the morning!

rosullivan

Slates wrote: »

I'm going with CPC collectors from Solarfocus and I'm thinking of using a Stanley Erin Multifuel stone but the war office now wants something more contemporary :rolleyes:

Forgive my ignorance - what is a CPC collector? I've heard of Solarfocus alright, do they have a good reputation? I presume so if you have chosen them already;).

I was looking at the Stanley Erin also, then someone showed me the Charnwood brochure. They look good - anyone got experience of them?

Femelade

i actually felt like crying when he said thats what he would probsbly be getting...i suppose i will just have to grow to love it.
but it will HAVE to be a built in one..not one of those free standing things.

Slig

Femmy wrote: »

i actually felt like crying when he said thats what he would probsbly be getting...i suppose i will just have to grow to love it.
but it will HAVE to be a built in one..not one of those free standing things.

there are built in fireplace/stoves that are efficent and contemporary. they look like a fireplace with a glass door on. I have an open fire with back boiler and it is horrendously in-efficent. Takes about 1 hour to get it piping hot (coal) and then it could take 2-3 hours to heat up the rads. back boiler also takes most of the heat from the fire and creates drafts of cold air so you arent even heating the room its in. I had a house with a stove once and I hated it, I'm now planning on putting one in to replace the open fire

Slates

rosullivan wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance - what is a CPC collector? I've heard of Solarfocus alright, do they have a good reputation? I presume so if you have chosen them already;).

I was looking at the Stanley Erin also, then someone showed me the Charnwood brochure. They look good - anyone got experience of them?

CPC = Compound Parabolic Collector

Its a flat panel collector that acts like an evacuted tube, see info below.

http://www.res.ie/node/14

P.S I dont work for them

rosullivan

Slates wrote: »

CPC = Compound Parabolic Collector

Its a flat panel collector that acts like an evacuted tube, see info below.

http://www.res.ie/node/14

P.S I dont work for them

Interesting - thanks! Will have to look into those a bit more.

DMARTINGTI

rosullivan wrote: »

I am building a new house (old house renovation and extension). I plan my heating system will be as follows:

1. Solar panels on a south facing roof - to heat hot water only (triple coil 300l water tank)
2. Multi-fuel (wood, coal, etc.) stove with a back boiler in the living room - to heat radiators and hot water
3. Condensing oil boiler - to heat radiators and hot water.

I'm going the same route. Looked at a few stoves so far. Mulberry looks quite good the larger ones have overnight burning facility on a thermostat, may rarely ever need oil with this option. Has anyone installed one of these stoves?

sinnerboy

Look here - and take the time to read the Construct Ireland link


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055375958

If you insulate , ventilate properly and obtain good air tightness - you can design away your space heating requirement altogether . Easier to do with a total new build of course - but you should make that your aim .

Look at the costs associated with the complexity of the space heating installation you are contemplating .

Then look at ( with a good BER assesor )

- significant insulation upgrade
- air tightness strategy
- heat recovery ventilation

you will see that a big rethink is the way to go

DMARTINGTI

Thanks Sinnerboy helpful advice. It is a renovation and extension so I have some restrictions. We are however attempting to improve the insulation on the current building and highly insulate/seal the extension I am also considering HRV as part of the solution looked at MTD so far (have you any expierience with them?). However I really like the idea of a stove regardless. Cheers for the advice.

MaxFlower

Femmy wrote: »

Can we just install a back burner in the fireplace and light the fire as normal?? i mean i know they say that most of the heat goes up the chimney but, doesnt some of it go up the chimney with the stove too?

Noooo! You don't want an open fire with a BB. I have just gone the opposite direction - OF with BB to a wood buring stove with BB. The difference is very noticable. Open fires are 15-30% efficient while a good stove is anywhere between 50 and 80%. Our stove is quoted as 80% efficient but I think these figures are derived under optimal conditions.

Femmy wrote: »

but it will HAVE to be a built in one..not one of those free standing things.

Again the freestanding would be better space heater as you don't have a big wall or chimney acting as a heat sink.

sinnerboy wrote: »

If you insulate , ventilate properly and obtain good air tightness - you can design away your space heating requirement altogether . Easier to do with a total new build of course - but you should make that your aim .

This was my plan with our attic conversion. The rads upstairs are not plumbed yet but there isn't a hugh temp differential with the downstairs. The downstairs isn't as difficult to heat either with all that insulation above it. We will never be able to do away with the space heating (old bungalow) but the comfort factor since the conversion and stove install is way up.

DMARTINGTI

Maxflower what stove did you go with?

Leadership

Can a stove with a back boiler be used in conjunction with a standard heating system?

There are threads on here that state a open system (back boiler) cannot be used with a closed system (oil/woodpellet etc) as its a pressurised system.

GoneShootin

DMARTINGTI wrote: »

Mulberry looks quite good the larger ones have overnight burning facility on a thermostat, may rarely ever need oil with this option. Has anyone installed one of these stoves?

Speaking of which, has anyone had experience with stoves in general? Either one in the Living Room to replace the open fire or/and the oil/solid fuel burning cookers/boiler/central heating units [the kind by Stanley I've seen look interesting]

MaxFlower

DMARTINGTI wrote: »

Maxflower what stove did you go with?

This one.

Leadership wrote: »

Can a stove with a back boiler be used in conjunction with a standard heating system?

Yes. Thats what I have.

Leadership wrote: »

There are threads on here that state a open system (back boiler) cannot be used with a closed system (oil/woodpellet etc) as its a pressurised system.

True but not all oil systems are pressurised - mine is open gravity.
My plumber has set up the system so that even if we are without power, the stove can be used and will heat the cylinder and upstairs rads by gravity alone.

Leadership

Thanks for the reply, sounds like this is a plan

DMARTINGTI

Nice looking stove Maxflower. Makes a real feature in the room I'd say.

fitzie79

i am looking at a system similar to this (hadn't thought about using the solar panels for heating - was just going to use them for hot water). I am hoping to have underfloor heating in the large open space (kitchen/dining/living room) where we will spend most of our time and will have rads in the rest of the house. I will be going for an oil condenser boiler and was going to have a solid fuel stove to provide a source to heat the open space area on evenings when there is no real need to have the heating on everywhere. I have a few questions that hopefully someone can help with.

1. Is it adding extra complication, or more importantly cost, by having a back boiler on the stove linked in to the rads that are also fed by the oil system
2. What is the pros/cons between the pressurised and gravity fed system?
3. What function do the multi-coil cylinders perform? If I have solar/oil/back boiler do I need a 3 coil cylinder and is it much more expensive?
4. Are the solid fuel stoves difficult to maintain? Herself is worried about having to clean out the ashes the whole time....

Sorry if some of the questions are a bit basic....

Femelade

Okay, my head is actually wrecked thinking about this damn stove.....

We went looking a few stoves and as we have 16 rads, mostly double ones we would need a big ugly multi fuel stove...euh!(which only heat up to 20 rads)

The plumber told my boyfriend that we wouldnt need a huge one we could just get a smaller one to heat all the rads, and that the oil heating could do the rest of the work..but i thought that the reason we were getting the damn stove in the first place was to heat the rads and water and then we wouldnt need to use the oil heating as much?

Also, our house isnt built for a stove there is just a hole in the wall where the fire would be lit and put the fire place around it..i was really hoping that we could put the stove into the wall a bit, so it wouldnt be jutting out a bit..but now we are told we wont be able to do that either!!

I just think that a big ugly stove in the room will look awful, and then if there are kids in the house, will it not be dangerous? we would have to have a pretty big guard to go around it, which again, in my opinion will look stupid..

so i guess, what i'm asking is..
for anyone who has a stove with a BB, does it heat ALL your rads? How many rads do you have? do you have to put on the oil heating everyday too?


head truly wrecked...

copper12

If the fuel for the multi fuel stove; is free then it’s an option
If you have to buy it, then you will probably light it; a half dozen times’ then it will only be an ornament
The solar panels’ because it is almost a new build’ you should consider; try and get the best availably’ the cost will be minimal in the overall cost of the build
Using a condensing oil boiler; will mean the heating system; should be designed with this in mind,
Low return temperature to the boiler
Using a back boiler ? they haven’t designed one yet, that heats a house, as well’ or is more efficient’ than the oil boiler you will fit.