Good upgrade for €200-€250?

sdanseo

Heya folks.

Looking for a little GFX advice, on a budget. System specs are in my sig. I'm into older games like BF2 that are maxed on my current 7900GTX but I'm after installing FSX (and at that FS9 won't max out on this card) and it's clear that I need a lot more juice and DX10.

I've a budget of €200 with a maximum of €260. I've read that FSX doesn't get much gain from SLi but that said, my board only support SLi and not crossfire so it's fairly pointless getting an ATi card as I'd only have to sell it if I ever wanted to upgrade, whereas with an NV card I can just double it for other games. I had been looking at an 8800GT SLI, buying only one card now for FSX and another if I get other games down the line that support SLi better.

I'd be open to ATi if I was sure I'd be running FSX/FS9 to the max and that it was significantly better value - but basically I'm looking for the best single card NV setup for the budget. I'd want new card(s) as well, not second hand.

Cheers

uberpixie

radeon 4870 is the best value @ €230.

FSX is a hog so unless you are playing at a lowish resolution don't expect miracles.

What size screen are you playing on?

SLI or crossfire are a waste of time in general, less of a waste if you are playing on a 24" or a 30" monitor @ 1900x1200 at least in resolution.

sdanseo

I'll be using 1280x1024...but I'm tempted to add a third monitor to my setup and get a matrox box which would mean 3840x1024. Eventually.

PogMoThoin

FSX is more cpu and ram intensive than gpu. Upgrading to 4GB ram would really help. I have a HD4870 and its a monster, maxes anything I throw at it on a 24' monitor @ 1920x1200 (except Crysis which it plays at high), best value for money gpu out there at the moment

Slutmonkey57b

sdonn_1 wrote: »

.... I've read that FSX doesn't get much gain from SLi but that said, my board only support SLi and not crossfire so it's fairly pointless getting an ATi card as I'd only have to sell it if I ever wanted to upgrade, whereas with an NV card I can just double it for other games. I had been looking at an 8800GT SLI, buying only one card now for FSX and another if I get other games down the line that support SLi better...

Great Myth of SLI gaming that is.

1) you can only SLI 2 cards of the same type. No matching a 2 year old card with a new one. No matching an 8800GT with an 8800GTS. No matching an 9800GTX 512mb with a 9800GTX 1gb.
2) by the time your rig is out of date enough to benefit from SLI, about 2 generations of GFX will have gone by and a single new card will be stronger than 2 old ones.
3) by the time you've saved enough to buy your second card (assuming budget is a factor), your old card (that you have to match) will either be hard to find OR stuck at its original price point, which will be more expensive than faster new cards.

Overheal

Your best off with the 4870. It will destroy every game you presently own, on maximum specs. an extra 2GB of ram wouldnt hurt either but its not vital.

TerrorFirmer

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Great Myth of SLI gaming that is.

1) you can only SLI 2 cards of the same type. No matching a 2 year old card with a new one. No matching an 8800GT with an 8800GTS. No matching an 9800GTX 512mb with a 9800GTX 1gb.
2) by the time your rig is out of date enough to benefit from SLI, about 2 generations of GFX will have gone by and a single new card will be stronger than 2 old ones.
3) by the time you've saved enough to buy your second card (assuming budget is a factor), your old card (that you have to match) will either be hard to find OR stuck at its original price point, which will be more expensive than faster new cards.

Not entirely true, first of all you can match cards with different memory sizes, and secondly, the entire point of Sli is to utilize either two extremely well priced cards, or two high end cards to improve on the best performance available. It's not Nvidia's fault that a huge amount of clueless individuals waste money on things like 8600GT sli, provided that the user is competent and knows exactly what they want, Sli is always a viable option right now. Not remember 8800GS/9600GT Sli results? They were nothing short of astounding, almost or plain outright beating the top end performance of that time on a far smaller budget.

Sli might not win out the day in every generation, but it's far from a Myth.

Overheal

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Not entirely true, first of all you can match cards with different memory sizes, and secondly, the entire point of Sli is to utilize either two extremely well priced cards, or two high end cards to improve on the best performance available. It's not Nvidia's fault that a huge amount of clueless individuals waste money on things like 8600GT sli, provided that the user is competent and knows exactly what they want, Sli is always a viable option right now. Not remember 8800GS/9600GT Sli results? They were nothing short of astounding, almost or plain outright beating the top end performance of that time on a far smaller budget.

Sli might not win out the day in every generation, but it's far from a Myth.

TBH the X2 cards that the manufacturers are pumping out are mor than enough power for the average joe: It's like sli without the guesswork and better yet: is not restricted to SLi enabled system boards. Hardcore nerds of course will still manage to get 2 X2 cards SLI'd together for 4-card SLi, but of course, thats just a ridiculously wasteful endeavour.

TerrorFirmer

Overheal wrote: »

TBH the X2 cards that the manufacturers are pumping out are mor than enough power for the average joe: It's like sli without the guesswork and better yet: is not restricted to SLi enabled system boards. Hardcore nerds of course will still manage to get 2 X2 cards SLI'd together for 4-card SLi, but of course, thats just a ridiculously wasteful endeavour.

Well both Nvidia and Ati have their dual cards, Nvidia as far back as the 7900GX2 and the Asus dual 7800, but driver support was always patchy at best. It's only really now, with the 8800 series and following 9600 cards, that Sli began to scale properly in most games. The Dual cards on a single lane though are expensive however; whereas 8800GS/9600GSO Sli costs about 150 at this stage and still offer amazing performance. They're getting old though now so it's unfair to compare them against the 48x0 range, which are obviously king right now, but when they first came out they were giving 8800Ultra a run for the top at about 50-60% the cost. And then, on the other flip side, you have the ultra high end market, where even a single X2 isn't enough - so you can look at GTX280 Sli, etc. Some people don't care about money, only performance, and Sli delivers that at the end of the spectrum. Quad Sli/Crossfire isn't even worth mentioning really, as it's pretty darn patchy, no point looking at anything other then dual cards currently. But it's totally wrong when people keep bleating out the 'Sli and crossfire are totally useless' line, it was outdated over a year ago, Sli of today is nothing like Sli of a few years ago.

christophicus

I don't get why everyone is saying the 4870 is the best value for money. At €230 it is almost twice the price of a 4850 and it is only 10-20 FPS faster right ??

I would think that the 4850 is the best bang for buck atm.

PogMoThoin

christophicus wrote: »

only 10-20 FPS faster right ??

I would think that the 4850 is the best bang for buck atm.

only 10-20 FPS
10-20 fps is a huge margin. difference between playable and not

Cant really compare the two, the HD4870 has gddr5, the 4850 has gddr3, a stock 4870 is still massively faster than a very overclocked 4850.

4870 is now €205. The reason its said as being the best value for money atm is it has 15% less power than GTX 280 which retails for €350+ (was €550 until Nvidia cut its prices to compete). Nvidia raped 2 many people for too long charging €600+ for 8800GTX as there was nothing to compete with it, look how they've changed thieir tune now

christophicus

PogMoThoin wrote: »

only 10-20 FPS
10-20 fps is a huge margin. difference between playable and not

Cant really compare the two, the HD4870 has gddr5, the 4850 has gddr3, a stock 4870 is still massively faster than a very overclocked 4850.

4870 is now €205. The reason its said as being the best value for money atm is it has 15% less power than GTX 280 which retails for €350+ (was €550 until Nvidia cut its prices to compete). Nvidia raped 2 many people for too long charging €600+ for 8800GTX as there was nothing to compete with it, look how they've changed thieir tune now

I suppose I just would not be willing to nearly pay double the price for only ( yes I did say only ) 10-20 fps, but then again I am a poor college student. If I had the money I would deffo go for the 4870.

Anyway the initial point I was making was that while the 4870 certainly is better value when compared to the 280, but when compared to the 4850 I would consider the 4850 the best for price/performance.

PogMoThoin

Either are great value TBH. There has never been as much value for money in the gpu market. I can max a 24' monitor for the €209 i spent on my 4870, last yr it would have cost me €600+


Generally I'd advise a HD4850 for resolutions up to 1280x1024, HD4870 for higher

Slutmonkey57b

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The Dual cards on a single lane though are expensive however; whereas 8800GS/9600GSO Sli costs about 150 at this stage and still offer amazing performance.

The point I made however, and the route the OP is proposing to go down now, is "Buy one now, buy one later". Buying 2 low end cards and SLI/xFire ing them can be a great value for money option, but remember it also relies very much on driver profiling. Dual 8800GS may kick the pants off an Ultra in one game, but provide no scaling at all in another, meaning you've just spent twice as much to gain no benefit. Until dual graphics has a true hardware implementation, it's nothing more than a possible benefit (and buggy at that)

They're getting old though now so it's unfair to compare them against the 48x0 range, which are obviously king right now, but when they first came out they were giving 8800Ultra a run for the top at about 50-60% the cost.

That was my whole point. The 8800GS is a year old. Had the OP bought one a year ago, then bought one now, he'd have "invested in the future" only to find that the future has passed him by, by a large margin, in about 12 months.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It's not Nvidia's fault that a huge amount of clueless individuals waste money on things like 8600GT sli, provided that the user is competent and knows exactly what they want, Sli is always a viable option right now.

It's 90% Nvidia's fault and 10% Tame IT Hacks fault. Both are pushing the message "buy SLI now and upgrade later! Bring your PC up to date a couple of years from now without replacing the whole thing! Get ferarri performance at Fiat prices!"

Of course, that's at best a fudge. Yes you can get a big boost from 2 cheap SLI cards.
1) IF The game has SLI driver profiles
2) IF You can get the drivers installed without a whole load of bugs and hassle.
3) IF You have two of the same type of card, preferably reference design or from the same vendor.

SLI can work. But overall, you're better buying the best single card you can buy and sticking with it til it wears out.

PogMoThoin

clint999 wrote: »

FSX is more cpu and ram intensive than gpu. Upgrading to 4GB ram would really help. I have a HD4870 and its a monster, maxes anything I throw at it on a 24' monitor @ 1920x1200 (except Crysis which it plays at high), best value for money gpu out there at the moment

:rolleyes: Why did you copy my earlier post?

PogMoThoin wrote: »

FSX is more cpu and ram intensive than gpu. Upgrading to 4GB ram would really help. I have a HD4870 and its a monster, maxes anything I throw at it on a 24' monitor @ 1920x1200 (except Crysis which it plays at high), best value for money gpu out there at the moment