Keane? Who needs him???

therecklessone

Bent got four last night.

:D:D:p;):p

KingdomYid

Onwards and upwards our creative midfield will create the chances for whoever lines up up front this season.COYS

John W

therecklessone wrote: »

Bent got four last night.

:D:D:p;):p

Yes against a championship side who were close to relegation last year - and with a left and right back who were playing out of position! I wouldn't put to much stock in that, however good confidence boost for Bent!

galinka

John W wrote: »

Yes against a championship side who were close to relegation last year - and with a left and right back who were playing out of position!

Actually full back on far side was pretty quick when matching Bale - well beaten though by BAE for great cross to Bent.

Robbie who???

missingtime

Is Bale back fit? I always wanted to know how he'd do to be fair.

ziedth

God i hope your right i never rated Bent TBH, I wouldn't mind seeing kanoute coming back. i would say he'll do well with out little russian if all is going well.

yiddo

ziedth wrote: »

God i hope your right i never rated Bent TBH, I wouldn't mind seeing kanoute coming back. i would say he'll do well with out little russian if all is going well.

Kanoute did ok for us but no more than that. Wouldn't think him returning would be an upgrade.

therecklessone

Another 3 tonight vs Orient.

dos Santos with 3 (or 4?) assists.

ruiseal

therecklessone wrote: »

Another 3 tonight vs Orient.

dos Santos with 3 (or 4?) assists.

According to Sky, he had a hand(?) in all five.

ziedth

dos santos does look tricky i can see him and bently doing well. as for Bent he looks sharp i must say only 1 of his last 7 have been tap-in's i'd say give him a run for the first few games provided Ramos doesn't sign a replacement or by some mericale we keep Berba

seanson

I suspect that unless we land someone like Villa, that we will at some stage this season be wishing we still had Keane. I dread to think that we will spend Keane's money on Arshavin for half the return in goals and none of the leadership. It would not surprise me to see Torres and Keane as the leading goal scoring partnership at the end of the season and Liverpool challenging for the title. Where Spurs will end up may be strongly influenced by transfers over the next two weeks.

therecklessone

Now followed up with goals vs Celtic, Dortmund and Roma.

Eamo71

Come back Robbie!!!

therecklessone

Eamo71 wrote: »

Come back Robbie!!!

Yeah, cos he's really pulling up trees at the Mickeys...:rolleyes:

90 minutes of football and people are willing to write Bent off, is it any wonder Spurs fans are known as fickle?

Hatch99

Most people had him written off a long time before Saturday Ronan, it was last summer if my memory serves me right.

Give him a chance to get a run of games under his belt.

therecklessone

Hatch99 wrote: »

Most people had him written off a long time before Saturday Ronan, it was last summer if my memory serves me right.

You're right mate, I left out one important word in my last post:

therecklessone wrote:

90 minutes of football and people are willing to write Bent off again

yiddo

therecklessone wrote: »

Yeah, cos he's really pulling up trees at the Mickeys...:rolleyes:

90 minutes of football and people are willing to write Bent off, is it any wonder Spurs fans are known as fickle?

Hatch99 wrote: »

Most people had him written off a long time before Saturday Ronan, it was last summer if my memory serves me right.

Give him a chance to get a run of games under his belt.

Lads I'll support Bent as long as he wears the white shirt and he's not a bad player but in fairness he's not fit to tie Keane's boots.

Hatch99

Maybe so, but whats the point in worrying about Keane, he's gone, lets concentrate on who we have in the white shirt today, not last season.

Eamo71

therecklessone wrote: »

Yeah, cos he's really pulling up trees at the Mickeys...:rolleyes:

90 minutes of football and people are willing to write Bent off, is it any wonder Spurs fans are known as fickle?

As a Spurs fan, i resemble that remark!

TBH I'll be surprised if Bent scores 10 goals this term.

therecklessone

yiddo wrote: »

Lads I'll support Bent as long as he wears the white shirt and he's not a bad player but in fairness he's not fit to tie Keane's boots.

Simple question Pat: would Keane have made a difference on Saturday?

Because it seems to me that Eamo based his comment on the Boro game, and I fail to see how Bent can be blamed for not scoring on Saturday when the midfield behind him left him isolated and provided poor service.

Maybe this is worth posting?

http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=524331

English Premier - KO 12:45
Sunderland 1 (0) - 0(0) Tottenham
Chopra 90

At Stadium of Light on 11-08-2007


Sunderland: Gordon ,Whitehead ,Nosworthy ,McShane ,Wallace ,Edwards ,Etuhu ,Yorke (Miller ,57 ) ,Richardson (Collins ,72 ) ,Murphy ,Stokes (Chopra ,72)
Subs not used: Ward,Connolly,

Tottenham: Robinson ,Chimbonda ,Anthony Gardner ,Stalteri ,Kaboul ,Jenas ,Zokora (Huddlestone ,87 ) ,Malbranque ,Tainio (Bent ,59 ) ,Berbatov (Defoe ,77 ) ,Keane
Subs not used Cerny,Rocha,

Bookings: Whitehead (Sunderland) Zokora (Tottenham)

Attendance: 43967

Referee: A G Wiley (Staffordshire)

Eamo71

Sorry reckless, I guess I am being the miserable spurs supporter that we're often painted as. hands up!
I just don;t rate Bent that highly but would love to be proved worng. However I feel we can't take a chance on him and need strikers in ASAP. It's incredible that the club has allowed itself to be in this position with the season just started.

On last year's Sunderland game...yeh point taken BUT we went there for a draw and had no ambition.
I thought this year we would race out of the traps and piss all over Boro to mark our territory (if you will). The result was heartbreaking and my knee is jerking!

therecklessone

Eamo71 wrote: »

Sorry reckless, I guess I am being the miserable spurs supporter that we're often painted as. hands up!
I just don;t rate Bent that highly but would love to be proved worng. However I feel we can't take a chance on him and need strikers in ASAP. It's incredible that the club has allowed itself to be in this position with the season just started.

On last year's Sunderland game...yeh point taken BUT we went there for a draw and had no ambition.
I thought this year we would race out of the traps and piss all over Boro to mark our territory (if you will). The result was heartbreaking and my knee is jerking!

First off, I don't think apologies are necessary for having an opinion on a player. All I look for is a logical and rational argument, and I don't think lamenting Keane's departure is a logical response to Saturday's defeat.

Our mistakes Saturday were tactical, Ramos got his line-up wrong and we paid the price. I'll reserve my judgement on Bent until I have something to judge him on.

In his defence, at least we seemed to go up there for a win rather than playing four bland midfielders looking for a draw.

Eamo71

therecklessone wrote: »

First off, I don't think apologies are necessary for having an opinion on a player. All I look for is a logical and rational argument, and I don't think lamenting Keane's departure is a logical response to Saturday's defeat.

Our mistakes Saturday were tactical, Ramos got his line-up wrong and we paid the price. I'll reserve my judgement on Bent until I have something to judge him on.

In his defence, at least we seemed to go up there for a win rather than playing four bland midfielders looking for a draw.

Yes at least we went up there for a win which is encouraging.
I'm no great shakes at tactics and formations etc but do you think we can play the formations Juande has in mind with a more European style of play week in week out in the prem??
A lot of games are won by scrapping. Do we have the steel to scrap when needed?

therecklessone

Eamo71 wrote: »

do you think we can play the formations Juande has in mind with a more European style of play week in week out in the prem??
A lot of games are won by scrapping. Do we have the steel to scrap when needed?

I don't think the formation is a problem, Saturday's error was the personal used to fill the positions on the park. I've said on the match thread that we won't survive playing Bentley/Lennon/dos Santos away from home, especially with Jenas and Modric as the CM partnership behind them.

I-Bleed-White made an excellent point on the same thread, Zokora should have started in midfield which would have provided a bit more support to the back 4 and allowed Jenas and Modric to concentrate on their creative roles. If Ramos does persist in playing 4-5-1 (or variations such as 4-2-3-1) then we'll need a hod carrier in the centre. We don't have the class of a Makalele or Essien in the squad, so we should make the best of what we do have, i.e. sacrifice one of the attacking midfield trio for either Zokora or O'Hara.

I'd go with:

---

Gomes

---

Hutton

---

King

---

Woody

---

Bale

---

Zokora

---

Modric

---

Bentley

---

Jenas

---

dos Santos

---

Bent

---

It's flexible because:

1. Jenas and Modric are inter-changeable, though my preference would be for Modric to sit deeper than Jenas.

2. It can become a midfield 5 when defending, with Jenas slotting in on the right of Zokora and Bentley/dos Santos playing as wingers.

3. At home there's scope for Modric to push forward as required, but away from home I think he'd need to sit deeper alongside Zokora.

4. It can change to a 4-4-2 easy enough, with Jenas playing on the right and Bentley on the left, then dos Santos playing as a support striker behind Bent.

I do believe that ability to change things on field without making a substitution up will be useful this season.

I do think it's key that if we are going to ask our full backs to get forward as we did on Saturday that we have players who can cover the ground to get back into position (which we failed to do a number of times vs Boro). Another option is to use Zokora's pace and athleticism to cover the space left by their forward runs.

yiddo

therecklessone wrote: »

Simple question Pat: would Keane have made a difference on Saturday?

Yes because he's a better player than Bent. Always was and always will be!

therecklessone

yiddo wrote: »

Yes because he's a better player than Bent. Always was and always will be!

So if Keane played instead of Bent we'd not have lost?

Can't say I see any logic to that Pat, could have had Torres up front on Saturday and he'd have struggled to have an impact.

yiddo

therecklessone wrote: »

So if Keane played instead of Bent we'd not have lost?

Can't say I see any logic to that Pat, could have had Torres up front on Saturday and he'd have struggled to have an impact.

Hold on a second you asked me would Keane have made a difference, I said he would. I don't know if we'd have won or not lost as you put it but we'd certainly have had a better chance of getting something out of the game because Keane is a better play than Bent.

ziedth

therecklessone wrote: »

So if Keane played instead of Bent we'd not have lost?

Can't say I see any logic to that Pat, could have had Torres up front on Saturday and he'd have struggled to have an impact.

I think you both have a valid point here lads, Keane could not by any means def get a win for u on sat. HOWEVER he is by far a better player then Bent, I'd like to think in a perfect world we could have played them both.

IMO Bent is lacking to by our only Outlet up front, Say for example he doesn't score against sunderland/chelsea/Villa what do we do then? the transfer window will have closed.

therecklessone

yiddo wrote: »

Hold on a second you asked me would Keane have made a difference, I said he would. I don't know if we'd have won or not lost as you put it but we'd certainly have had a better chance of getting something out of the game because Keane is a better play than Bent.

Ah c'mon Pat, the only difference worth commenting on is would the score have been different.

If Bale had played LB instead of BAE we'd have been more defensively sound (BAE was caught out of position too often after going forward, and that allowed Boro to counter attack)

If King had been fully fit and played instead of Dawson we'd have been more defensively solid (and I don't believe King would have allowed Mido get in front of him for the 2nd goal)

If Keane had played instead of Bent, what chances would he have had to convert?

That's my point, we'd still have struggled to beat Boro because we fcuked up elsewhere.

therecklessone

ziedth wrote: »

IMO Bent is lacking to by our only Outlet up front, Say for example he doesn't score against sunderland/chelsea/Villa what do we do then? the transfer window will have closed.

Look at his record at Charlton, where he was the only player up front.

Maybe the problem is we aren't making use of the ability he has?

Or maybe we shouldn't draw conclusions until we've a half dozen games under our belt...

BERBA

therecklessone wrote: »

So if Keane played instead of Bent we'd not have lost?

Can't say I see any logic to that Pat, could have had Torres up front on Saturday and he'd have struggled to have an impact.

We gotta give bent at least 6 games , keane hasn't scored for liverpool yet in 5/6 games. He was dragged off against sunderland last sat and he was muttering to himself already , same as back in the jol days!.He'll get plenty of time to warm the bench at anfield! That 20m we got for him looks better by the day!

ziedth

therecklessone wrote: »

Look at his record at Charlton, where he was the only player up front.

Maybe the problem is we aren't making use of the ability he has?

Or maybe we shouldn't draw conclusions until we've a half dozen games under our belt...

2 points i have with that budd,

1. He's recored with charlton is extremely skewed cause he scored like 15 peno's (this is estimated in my head so if i'm wrong i apologise)

2 I'm not drawing conclusions lad, just of the opinion of seeing him last season/time at charlton. I hope he proves me wrong and i even have him in my Fantasy Football team based on what iv'e seen of him in pre-season.

The point I was trying to make was if we wait the 6 games and he's still not played well or not recieved the service its going to be too late to do anything about it till january. Not to mention what do we do when he inevitablly picks up a knock

therecklessone

ziedth wrote: »

2 points i have with that budd,

1. He's recored with charlton is extremely skewed cause he scored like 15 peno's (this is estimated in my head so if i'm wrong i apologise)

6 penos, 3 each season. Exact same as Robbie...apology accepted...:D

ziedth wrote: »

The point I was trying to make was if we wait the 6 games and he's still not played well or not recieved the service its going to be too late to do anything about it till january. Not to mention what do we do when he inevitablly picks up a knock

When I say wait 6 games, I mean us as fans. If Ramos and co are waiting until now to make a decision on whether he'll be good enough to bag us the required goals then they are making a huge fcuk up IMO.

ziedth

therecklessone wrote: »

6 penos, 3 each season..

I dont want to throw my rattle out of them pram here my friend but he definately scored 9 Penalties the season he scored 18 PL goals for charlton. i thought he scored abour 4 or 5 the following year but i could be wrong,

But we can agree that its sheer madness to rely solely on him. I personnaly wouldn't mind signing any half decent Striker for 4-5m as backup surely someone like James Beatie or Kevin Philips would come.

therecklessone

You're welcome to check my figure if you want:

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=28055

Season 2005/06 is what you're after.

http://www.cafc.co.uk/fixtures.ink?team=p&diary=&season=05/06

Might be more trustworthy.

RichMc70

Bent Vs Keane. In my opinion the major difference between the two is CONFIDENCE.

Robbie had his fair share of fcuking up good scoring opportunities but that never stopped him going back for more. His confidence and natural read of the game kept getting him back into scoring positions where he knew the goals would come eventually.

Bent has had very little playing time in comparison however, when he does start, he still looks short on confidence. He has an advantage on Robbie in that he has pace and physique but he doesnt have the same football brain.

The style of football we play is always going to create chances. Any reasonable striker should be expected to bag at least 15 PL goals a season.

If Bent doesnt get off the mark soon I think the ability he has will be shattered through lack of belief.

Our next four games are Sunderland(H), Chelsea(A), Villa(H) and Wigan(H). I would expect him to score in at least two of these games, otherwise we have serious problems.

ziedth

therecklessone wrote: »

You're welcome to check my figure if you want:

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=28055

Season 2005/06 is what you're after.

http://www.cafc.co.uk/fixtures.ink?team=p&diary=&season=05/06

Might be more trustworthy.

Think i'll admit defeat in this one actually the stats on that 05/06 season makes interesting reading. it is quite impressive.


Rich makes a very good point,

I hope more then anyone that Bent knocks in 3 the weekend and we get a 20 goals striker out of him.

Wendell Gee

I wouldn't judge too much on Saturday. When I saw BAE playing so much pre-season I felt it meant one of two things -either Ramos rates him, or he was being fattened up for sale. It still could be the latter. Give him a couple of PL starts and unload. I think if ramos didn't rate O hara and Hudd he would have bought a DM. Zokora is popular in the dressingroom, and is important with so much upheaval. Biggest mistake Ramos has made is not making woodgate captain. Second biggest is not buying a striker before berbatov goes, as go he surely will. Now Arshavin is allegedly off the table, who the hell do we go for. I just wish we had loaned defoe out at xmas. i know we nevewr saw keane leaving, but berbs was always heading for the door. Looking at him and Santa Cruz, it seems that strikers who do it in germany work well here.
As regards Modric, quality will find a way to become influential. No fears there.
bent could be like Clive Allen, he will hit a streak some time if we persist. People remember 1986-87 and 49 goals, but he was here for 18 months before that, and didn't light the place up. In contrast, Alan Brazil had a promising first half season, and was pants.
The King thing worries me. Is he on the piss? If his knees are fluiched I wouldn't blame him .he only played half games in the pre-season. It's not good. Corluka is needed so badly. That was a stroke signing that nearly came off. Now Man City are being chased for non-payment of Elano money, let's go back with 12m. As regards holding role, would love to see Bale tried there when season settles down. made for it i think.

positivenote

bale is too raw for a premiership cm role, he's quality at what hes doing and i give him two years befor utd sniff around... if we are looking at a def cm we should be looking at an established player who knows the role. Diara/Veloso from portugal/polsen/polak etc... they do exist.
Equally worrying is the form of daws and the fact that King is a bit part player at most (unfortunately). If woodgate gets injured WE ARE SCREWED...
This is all without mentioning the fact that last seasons no.4 striker is turning out to be this years first choice.

Levy should keep berbatov in a similiar fashion to villa and Barry, but we still need to replace keane...

RichMc70

Alan McInally (Sky Sports Pundit) comments following defeat to Sunderland.

"Ramos is going to have to think about this because as good a pre-season Darren Bent had, he didn't look anywhere near as dangerous when the real stuff began," said McInally.
"He's going to have to get someone else in that position because Berbatov's obviously going and Keane has already gone.
"And Modric, who I think is a fabulous player, needs to muscle up. He's a good footballer but neat and tidy is not good enough in the Premier League.
"It's easy to have a go at them (the new signings) but David Bentley was fantastic today. Some of his deliveries were first class, but there's two equations here for Spurs: there's no Keane, no Berbatov and not as many points.

therecklessone

Same story again today, Bent isolated with us lumping about 6/7 high balls up into the air hoping he'd win headers against the two lumps at CB for Sunderland. Result? Meat and drink to the CBs, same as last week vs Boro.

The only time Bent was fed with a ball he could work with was in the 2nd half when Modric threaded a ball from deep as Bent ran into the channels and he hit the side netting.

It's a simple equation: 2 CB > 1 CF

Teddy Vedder

we fecking need him

John W

Teddy Vedder wrote: »

we fecking need him

Yep, he is really banging them in for Pool - and what about Berbs - Jesus if we have had these two on this kind of form they are in right now - we would have an extra 0 GOALS:eek: