marathon program

violator13

Would anybody have a good program on a sub 235 marathon?
Running Dublin marathon and training away but really need to see what kind of sessions are needed and general plans.
Any advice would be great.
thanks:o

RoyMcC

You might look at Hal Higdon's advanced schedules http://www.halhigdon.com/

or the Hanson method, a bit more offbeat but one which is gaining in credibility http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=4447

though if you are aiming for 2.35 you are presumably doing most things right already.

Pherekydes

Moved to Marathon forum.

hunnymonster

You'll have to tell us a bit more about your current running and past racing.

violator13

ok,
running around 50m per week and upto nearly 18m for the long run.
Most steady runs at 655-715pace..Also 1session 8x800s or 6x1k or race.
Race times apx at the mo.
3k 850
5k 1530
4m 2015
5m 2530
10k 3210

Would be interested on just some key advice.Im mid 30s and 1st marathon.

cheers.

Peckham

You do realise that a 2:35 marathon would put you in the top-40 finishers overall, and the top-10 Irish finishers......quite an achievement for a first timer!

Have you ever raced at a distance longer than 10k? Would be vary wary setting a goal time as ambitious as that, if you've only raced at a distance that equates to a quarter of the marathon distance.

Not sure I'm best place to recommend a training plan for you, as you're a league (if not more!) above me. Recommend this book.

Am assuming with those times you're in a club? Anyone else at your level hitting for the marathon?

Stupid_Private

If you're running a low 32 minutes for 10km it'd be crazy to not be aiming for at least 2h 35. I'd be surprised though if you're not already in a club.

The training for a marathon wouldn't be that different from your 10km training. Probably an extra 10-15 miles a week. Personally I don't think there's any magic training plan that'll get you your time - I think you should be coached by someone who knows what they're talking about, that will tell you what to do week in week out depending on how previous weeks have gone. An 18 week training plan doesn't take into account if races don't go well, if you get sick, tired and so on. A coach will be the best person to advise you when to take time off or not.

cfitz

I'm not a marathoner and I don't have any programs, but if you look at letsrun.com you might find people of a similar ability to yourself looking for advice. People like Renato Cenova and Jack Daniels post there also so it could be very worthwhile putting your questions up there.

Only comment I would have is that your mileage relatively low at the moment so you could probably bump it up significantly for a marathon.

Peckham wrote: »

You do realise that a 2:35 marathon would put you in the top-40 finishers overall, and the top-10 Irish finishers......quite an achievement for a first timer!

Have you ever raced at a distance longer than 10k? Would be vary wary setting a goal time as ambitious as that, if you've only raced at a distance that equates to a quarter of the marathon distance.

He can run 32:10 off 50 miles per week, it's not that ambitious. He may or may not hit 2:35 but what time would you suggest he aims for?

violator13

Thanks.will have a look at those programs.Dont think 235 is out of the question.I have run between 70-73m for half depending on the day.
But any advice is welcome on racing it from the start as against just getting around.:pac:

hunnymonster

A 70 minute half marathon potentially puts you under 2:30. I'm glad to hear you've run that distance, sometimes people runa fast 5 km and assume it translates up the distance. As the others have said a good club or coach will be your best bet. I know a couple of people running similar times and if you want to pm me for email address I can put you in touch to get an idea from them what's involved.
The basics would include

-making sure you get into the elite start
-having a drinking strategy that you know works and practice
-decide now if you're going to wear racing flats or trainers for the race and practice sufficiently
-know your pacing and who else will be in the race, a good option might be to know who runs the pace you're planning (some of the 2:30-2:40 Irish lads are remarkably consistent) and keep with them. Have a back up plan thought if they're having an off day.
-know the course, those of us a bit further back just play follow the leader but as one of the leaders you need to know where you're going.

I'm sure I'll think of more elite-specific tips but these are some to think about in the mean time. Best of luck with it.

Your mileage is at the low end of the faster guys. Is this intentional? Probably a bit late to be starting massive increases this close to Dublin but worth bearing in mind.

Peckham

cfitz wrote: »

He can run 32:10 off 50 miles per week, it's not that ambitious. He may or may not hit 2:35 but what time would you suggest he aims for?

My concern was that the 2:35 prediction was based on not having raced longer than 10k, but the OP has now provided an impressive half-marathon time to back-up his prediction.


Hunnymonster - you mention the elite start. As a matter of interest, how does one go about getting into the elite start? Not that I'm looking to do so myself, just curious. Is it just by asking in advance? What sort of time would they be expecting you to do to let you in with the elites? Think it's sub-2:55 for men in London to be classified as a Championship runner.

Stupid_Private

Peckham wrote: »

Hunnymonster - you mention the elite start. As a matter of interest, how does one go about getting into the elite start? Not that I'm looking to do so myself, just curious. Is it just by asking in advance? What sort of time would they be expecting you to do to let you in with the elites? Think it's sub-2:55 for men in London to be classified as a Championship runner.

For London you have to be a member of a UK club and run a sub 2.45 marathon within the last year or a sub 1.15 half. It's a guaranteed free entry if you meet them requirements and apply within 4 months of the marathon.

Dublin you have to blag your way into the elite start!!

hunnymonster

Peckham wrote: »

Hunnymonster - you mention the elite start. As a matter of interest, how does one go about getting into the elite start? Not that I'm looking to do so myself, just curious. Is it just by asking in advance? What sort of time would they be expecting you to do to let you in with the elites? Think it's sub-2:55 for men in London to be classified as a Championship runner.

Email the organisers with your pedigree. I'm guessing anyone expecting sub 2:40 should be there but I've never actually heard an official standard.


re FLM, It used to me that you simply had to run the time (2:45 men, 3:15 women) and have a UK address. Have the rules changed that you have to be a club member?

Stupid_Private

I don't know anything about past rules, but at the moment to take part in the UK Championships you have to be a member of a UK affiliated club. Before going to the start line your kit is also inspected to make sure you're wearing your club vest and nothing that displays any sponsors or messages. Anyone not wearing their club vest is not allowed to start and they're fairly strict about it. Fair enough I suppose considering it's free and part of their championships. It's why I'm keeping my club membership in the UK even though I won't be living there next year.

violator13

God I hate the word ELITE and sure what differance does it make if you have an elite number? Surely its a mass start?
The colour of the number doesnt make me feel special!:rolleyes:

hunnymonster

In the Dublin marathon, being in the elite start makes a huge difference.

The organisers carefully put up signs showing approximately where you should start based on your expected finish time but these are completely ignored. There are about 1000 people who are intending to walk the marathon. Their reasoning appears to be, well I'm going to be out there longer than the runners so I had better start at the front to get away quickly. Of course this happens in almost any race but Dublin is particularly badly affected (infected!) If you have not done it before, getting around 1000 walkers on Lincoln place/westland row is not easy so starting with your contemporaries makes sense.

It's not about the colour of the number, it's about giving the race your best shot, you did ask for tips on racing, not just getting around!

TheRoadRunner

violator13 wrote: »

God I hate the word ELITE and sure what differance does it make if you have an elite number? Surely its a mass start?
The colour of the number doesn't make me feel special!:rolleyes:

Yeah still a mass start but you get into a pen near to the front of marathon with people of a similar standard as yourself.

I have been stuck behind walkers and joggers in Dublin and it's head wrecking when you are trying to hit times. Have done a couple of marathons in the states. Started off with competitors of similar ability to myself and it's heaven. The guys around you are running similar splits to you and there is no need to navigate through the crowd.

Not mad on the word elite myself. Maybe should be changed to top 1 percentile

Peckham

hunnymonster wrote: »

Their reasoning appears to be, well I'm going to be out there longer than the runners so I had better start at the front to get away quickly.

:mad: :mad:

I remember my first outing at Dublin marathon, and taking the turn into Lincoln Place to be met by four ladies, who were not just walking, but doing so arm-in-arm! Think someone roared at them and just went right through the middle of their merry group - hope they got the message!

Why is it that Irish races seem to suffer this worse than others? Have raced elsewhere in Europe without this problem, but every mass race event in Ireland it happens.

The system when registering where you state whether you're going to do it in above 4 hours or less than 4 hours is pointless - they were enforcing this last year at the start, whereby only those with a "less than 4 hour" bib were allowed to start alongside Fitzwilliam Square - the others had to go further up towards Leeson Street. Pointless activity, given there were no controls over who signed up to do in in "under 4 hours".

hunnymonster

Peckham wrote: »

:mad: :mad:
Why is it that Irish races seem to suffer this worse than others? Have raced elsewhere in Europe without this problem, but every mass race event in Ireland it happens.

I honestly think it's back to the women's MINI marathon syndrome. The 10 km runners who genuinely think they have run a marathon, the walkers to think it's a great idea to get out there early, ..... the 10 km and the walkers are both very valid activities and should be encouraged but it's not the same thing. (don't even get me started on the discriminatory nature of a women's only race!)

donothoponpop

Having fought my way through linked walkers in 2006, I got to the start early in 2007, and began the race quite close to the front of the field. In the minutes before the "off", I was talking times with a lady who said she was hoping to break four hours, whereby a guy turned round and let fly at her, angrily insisting that this area was reserved for those hoping to break three. He kept it up with some venom, until she slithered back a few lines down the crowd.

Just before the gun, said guy assumed the starting position as though it was a 400m race, and took off like the clappers. Think I passed him panting somewhere between mile one and two...

-donothoponpop