Opinions on Krav Maga

tallaght01

Hi guys. I'm not a regular on this forum at all. But I was just looking to gauge opinon.

I've been doing Krav Maga for about 6 months here in Australia. I love it. I'm not into it in the way people getbig into martial arts. I just do it for fun and it's someting different from the gym twice a week to help get fit. It's no harm to learn some self defence, but I'm not into fighting.

We start off with a bit of cardio, then we go onto either combatives (well that's what we call them...basically punches, kicks, elbows or whatever), or drills ("techniques" they were always called when I did kenpo as a kid, basically just defending against specific attacks).

Like I said, it's a great way to spend 2 nights a week, in my opinion. The class is full of nice people, and my instructor is a nice guy.

BUT, most other people I know who do martial arts are very disparaging about KM. Like, I expected there to be rivalry between styles, but they all seem to be united in their dismissiveness of KM. I guess it's not really a sport, which makes it different to other forms of martial arts.

They say we don't practise under pressure conditions but we do. They say it's all about money, but I pay 15 dollars (about 8 euros) for a class thats about 2 hours long (I pay 50 dollars for my one hour druming lesson every week!).

BUt the interesting thing is that when they run weekemd seminars, theres lots of people from lots of different styles there, and they seem to enjoy themselves.

So, I was just wondering what the consensus is. I've only being doing it a while and I've not had a lot of experience of other martial arts, so I'd be interested in hearing your views.

Baggio...

KM often gets a bad rap here.

Boards is very MMA orientated (which is fair enough as it's the most popular).

Also, because some of the exponents charge big bucks for weekend courses, and use "dramatic" marketing tactics. I'm not really too bothered by those to be honest - none of my business.

I think KM has got something to offer the student (especially if trained correctly). My only few bugbears with KM are, that it relies too heavily on defensive tactics. That is to say, they tend to wait until the attack is actually taking place, as opposed to being "pre-emptive". Whether that is taking action (awareness) in order to avoid an altercation, or striking first should you have no other option (if you have the honest belief that you will be attacked).

Secondly, they tend to also rely on "specific-defenses" (to quote Carl Cestari). By that I mean they have different "techniques" for different attacks. So for a hair grab you do technique A, then for a lapel grab you do technique B, and so on. The same can be said for some traditional martial arts. Unfortunately the brain cannot make an effective diagnostic decision under stress. So those types of defenses will not work, especially against a "non-compliant" aggressor with real intent - there simply is not enough time when things go live.

Their 360 degree defense concept will also not work under duress... At close range anyway, (IE - the range a fight would actually take place), "action will always beat reaction" therefore trying to block effectively is not feasible.

That said, render those few problems inert - and you will have a solid system to build upon. I've trained with some very talented KM guys, most of them have now adopted "situational control" and "pre-emption" as standard tactics.

Just my two cents.

R.

tallaght01

Cheers Baggio.

What's the difference betweena weekend course and a seminar. Our guys usually bring over a few people from israel who run "seminars". But they're always at the weekend :P

I don't neccesarily agree with you about KM not being pre-emptive. I've only been doing it for 6 months though. But we learn to go in with kick/punch/elbow combo, moving from long to medium to close range. Having said that I've no idea what kind of emphasis is put on this as I progress in KM, or in other martial arts, so I've nothing to compare it to.

I think there's always a few different techniques for each of the situations described above. Like, Ive learned a few different techiques to get out of frontal chokes over the last 2 weeks for example.

Do you think people who do KM have less of a grasp of the basics than other martial artists...I mean kicks, punches etc. We don't seem to spend as much time on those real basics as I remmeber from kenpo (many many moons ago though)

arybvtcw0eolkf

OP, you say your paying very little money for something you love - thats gotta be a good thing.

I've only trained K.M. in Israel, and even the Israeli instructors told me that in their opinion its mostly rubbish. Plus they all cross trained in a varity of other styles, Judo - MMA - Muay Thai & boxing being the most popular.

My exposure to it here in Ireland has been limited to the various groups advertising methods, whats been discussed here and some absolutely, insanely stupid youtube presentation of it which was taken down after much ridicule here.

But serious OP training in a style you love and for that kind of money, your lucky and I'd suggest you should stick with that, but do keep an open mind on other styles too.

This is not the youtube vid I'm talking about, but it was recently aired on R.T.E. TV.

How embarrassing is this!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQPRogdWkw

Baggio...

tallaght01 wrote: »

I don't neccesarily agree with you about KM not being pre-emptive. I've only been doing it for 6 months though.

Okay, but at what point do you decide to go in with these hard skills?

Just on your point about KM guys not have good fundamentals. I guess that really depends on how long they've been training, and if they've done stuff before (I'm also originally form a Kenpo background too).

But much more important than form, is having a good delivery system. There's no point in looking good, in a traditional sense, if you can't hit very hard.

It's all about manifesting impact, and if you can do that - job done.

I always like to use this Geoff Thompson quote "Learn to hit feckin' hard"...

Cheers,

R.

Baggio...

Mairt wrote: »

Muay Thai & boxing

As Mairt pointed out: Having this type of "delivery system" behind you will be highly advantageous.

Anything that pretty much uses those type of boxing mechanics. Or a slightly altered version.

Just before the MMA guys ask, I'm not going to explain what I mean by "slightly altered". I've not got the time, or will anymore . So for simplicity sake and my own sanity, we'll just call it Boxing mechanics.

R.

tallaght01

Mairt wrote: »

OP, you say your paying very little money for something you love - thats gotta be a good thing.

I've only trained K.M. in Israel, and even the Israeli instructors told me that in their opinion its mostly rubbish. Plus they all cross trained in a varity of other styles, Judo - MMA - Muay Thai & boxing being the most popular.

My exposure to it here in Ireland has been limited to the various groups advertising methods, whats been discussed here and some absolutely, insanely stupid youtube presentation of it which was taken down after much ridicule here.

But serious OP training in a style you love and for that kind of money, your lucky and I'd suggest you should stick with that, but do keep an open mind on other styles too.

This is not the youtube vid I'm talking about, but it was recently aired on R.T.E. TV.

How embarrassing is this!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQPRogdWkw

Cheers mairt, that's all very interesting. I gues you're right. I have a hobby I really enjoy, and it doesn't cost me a fortune.

I'll keep an eye on other styles too as I agree a lot of the KM guys have cross trained. Do you think that training in 2 styles simultaneously jst confuses things though? There's a guy I know who runs a TKD class on saturdays (aswell as midweek). He says I couls just come along on the saturday though (as I do KM midweek).

The reason I ask is because the thing that bothers me about KM is how quick it is. We "attack" each other, but usually the aim is to immobilise your attacker very quickly. But I quite liek the idea of doing some sparring...just to get used to fighting for a prolonged period, if that makes sense.

But TKD has different punches, kicks, stances etc so not sure if it would all just end up getting confused?

Baggio... wrote: »

Okay, but at what point do you decide to go in with these hard skills?

Just on your point about KM guys not have god fundamentals. I guess that really depends on how long they've been training, and if they've done stuff before (I'm also originally form a Kenpo background too).

But much more important than form, is having a good delivery system. There's no point in looking good, in a traditional sense, if you can't hit very hard.

It's all about manifesting impact, and if you can do that - job done.

I always like to use this Geoff Thompson quote "Lean to hit feckin' hard"...

Cheers,

R.

I guess I'd go in with the hard skills when I believe Ive no alternative. To hit first under any other circumstances leaves u open to getting into a world of **** if the person gets hurt, and you've thrown the first punch. That might sound like a wimpy thing to say, but I don't wanna do a stretch if I can help it.

What's a "good delivery system" in martial arts talk? Sorry, I'm a bit clueless about these things :P

tallaght01

Mairt I just watched that video you posted too. hahahahah that's gas,

It's not like the classes I go to. Though I wish we had a couple of models training with us!

dunkamania

tallaght01 wrote: »

I've been doing Krav Maga for about 6 months here in Australia. I love it. I'm not into it in the way people getbig into martial arts. I just do it for fun and it's someting different from the gym twice a week to help get fit.

That is all that matters. If you were pushed you could try out some other MA's, see if you like them more, but if your happy doing what your doing thats the main thing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

tallaght01 wrote: »

Mairt I just watched that video you posted too. hahahahah that's gas,

It's not like the classes I go to. Though I wish we had a couple of models training with us!

Its sad that someone somewhere considers that thing a model too!.



But you know, if your enjoying KM thats all thats important.

But I have the feeling your looking for something a little more realistic and challenging where you can test your skills against properly resisting opponents?.

Baggio...

tallaght01 wrote: »

What's a "good delivery system" in martial arts talk? Sorry, I'm a bit clueless about these things :P

I'm just really referring to Body mechanics.

Arts such as Boxing & M.T. have really good mechanics for punching, and movement, etc. They deliver awesome impact capability.

At the end of the day if you're happy with it - stick with it. Maybe think about adding some "pre-fight" concepts (situational control, awareness. etc), and then chip away at any of the extraneous "defenses".

Keep it simple.

Good luck,

R.

Lazer Smart

Mairt wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQPRogdWkw

I wonder did they purposely invent that gun disarm to cop a feel your one:D

That really is an embarrassing clip.

Op, if you're enjoying the class and finding it challenging stick with it!

Nothingcompares

I suppose when someone does something for a signficant amount of time, especially as they only began on a whim, they come to a point where they ask themselves Why. Why am I doing this?

Everyone has their own reasons but with regard to martial arts it's usually because a person wants to get a bit fitter because they've got into a rut in terms of excercise and waistlines, they want to be able to protect themselves perhaps because they've had a sudden relevation of their own vulnerability or because they went to get out and meet people and socialise. A lot of people just like learning and acquiring new skills and doing courses. This year might be Krav Maga next year might be pottery.

I'd encourage you to read some of this http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/2005/07/why-aliveness.html and similar opinions posted by Matt Thornton.

To answer your question by opinion on Krav maga is based on indirect experience. I don't think it complies to my personal martial arts standards - aliveness, authencity, healthy mind set, athleticism. I think things like the type of people you train with, price, enjoyablility are equally relevant but they apply to pottery/table-tennis/Krav maga/BJJ anything so no point talking about it. Your own common sense is just a good a judge of those aspects as anyone else.

RNCFAN

Mairt wrote: »

OP, you say your paying very little money for something you love - thats gotta be a good thing.

I've only trained K.M. in Israel, and even the Israeli instructors told me that in their opinion its mostly rubbish. Plus they all cross trained in a varity of other styles, Judo - MMA - Muay Thai & boxing being the most popular.

My exposure to it here in Ireland has been limited to the various groups advertising methods, whats been discussed here and some absolutely, insanely stupid youtube presentation of it which was taken down after much ridicule here.

But serious OP training in a style you love and for that kind of money, your lucky and I'd suggest you should stick with that, but do keep an open mind on other styles too.

This is not the youtube vid I'm talking about, but it was recently aired on R.T.E. TV.

How embarrassing is this!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQPRogdWkw

That woman's accent is beyond ridiculous.

ponygirl

Nothingcompares wrote: »

I'd encourage you to read some of this http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/2005/07/why-aliveness.html and similar opinions posted by Matt Thornton.

I read that blog you linked to Nothingcompares, fantastic! Covered a lot of stuff I was thinking about as I delve into various MAs for the first time! Thanks