SNG's online full time anyone?

zap27

Hi. Theres a thread going here about online poker cash games for a living and I don’t see one for SNG’s so I thought I’d start one. Background on myself-have been player for about a year online and only pay sngs- Heads up only, with a buy in of between $30 and $50 and I would mix it up between all the limits. . Ive played about 2200 games in that time and made just under $3700 so im not too bad but nothing special either.

Is there anyone here who makes their living from SNG’s and if so how do you find it? I had some holidays left over from work recently and took 4 off in a row during the week to see how I would get on. Each SNG heads up lasts about 15 mins on average so I aimed to play 25 games during the day and try to basically just to see how I did. I managed to win about $650 in the 4 days.

Day 1 I got about $300, day 2 $200 day 3 $150 but I actually lost $30 in fees on the last day because I only won 50% of my games. So, were the first few days a fluke or what given my previous win rate above?? Its hard to know because on the 4th day I started off really well with 5 wins in a row and then got disconnected mid game (grr!) and that started the rut for the day which was basically win,lose, ,win,lose, lose after that.

The only tool I use is sharkscope. How would the above compare to someone who is doing it full time? I’m not thinking of packing in the day job any time soon but the first 3 days of playing were pretty interesting!! Any thoughts appreciated

Z

thedini

thats far too small a sample size to have any real meaningful results, the variance in sngs is massive you can often experience a 30 bi downswing etc. $3700 over 2200 games say $2 a game at 25 per day = $50.That certainly wont make going full time feasible however keep studying it and best of luck.

zap27

yeah i know what you mean about the swings, i havent actually won much at all in the last say 200 games except for those days in question when i was doing it during the day. I hadnt expected to do that well in general as presumably a lot of sharks would be hanging around during the day even in fairly low level stakes like that.

still nice to know theres a good chance i won't go hungry should this recession thing kick in for real $50 a day aint bad!!

glenjamin

I usually play every day online too and like you stick to sngs (6 max) rather than cash. I read a blog from this American pro who also sticks to playing just sngs every day. He started at the $5 level playing 8+ tables at once for 8-16 hours a day. Once he got his bankroll up to certain number, and had mastered the $5 level, he moved up to playing $20 sngs and so on. I'm currently trying this strategy starting with $5 sngs and working me way up. The only thing is I don't multi-table as I like to give my full concentration to one game and I don't put in as many hours as him because once I take a bad beat and bust I'm usually tilted for an hour or so. This effects the amount of money I'm winning. I am making profit but too slow to ever consider doing it for a living. I guess if you want to make a living from playing sngs you must be prepared to put in the hours and multi-table.

Stoko

Anyone doing good progress?

I am still playing $5 SnG about 3-4 games a night.. read Collin Moshman book and maybe improved.. aslo got SnG Wizard and use it to figure get used to pusing -allin ...

Maybe SnG should have own forum so we can post more hands...

Stoyan

spothediference

Stoko wrote: »

Anyone doing good progress?

I am still playing $5 SnG about 3-4 games a night.. read Collin Moshman book and maybe improved.. aslo got SnG Wizard and use it to figure get used to pusing -allin ...

Maybe SnG should have own forum so we can post more hands...

Stoyan

do u find the variance mad stoko? ye that book is avery good read ,explains just how diff sngs are to tournaments,ill 2nd the sng thred

platypus

Why do people want a SNG forum? Very few SNG hands are posted as it is

OP, you need a far bigger sample before deciding if playing for a living is viable.
Personally I find SNGs very boring, although they are probably my most profitable game. So many decisions are just automatic because you are playing with a stack size of <20BB that it gets very boring playing a high volume of these. Playing them for 5/6 hours a day would become as boring as a "real" job very quickly, so unless you are going to make massive profits I would think playing them more casually as a nice source of extra money is a better option

Stoko

platypus wrote: »

Why do people want a SNG forum? Very few SNG hands are posted as it is

OP, you need a far bigger sample before deciding if playing for a living is viable.
Personally I find SNGs very boring, although they are probably my most profitable game. So many decisions are just automatic because you are playing with a stack size of <20BB that it gets very boring playing a high volume of these. Playing them for 5/6 hours a day would become as boring as a "real" job very quickly, so unless you are going to make massive profits I would think playing them more casually as a nice source of extra money is a better option

maybe hands are not posted because there's no real SnG place... not sure... I personally would post in 2+2 STT as the discussians are only STT in there...
not sure.. no harm to try it.. it can be set up for 10seconds.. maybe quicker haha :-)

SnG is cool!! I like it :-D I dont think I will ever live on poker in any form but I see SnG the cheapest way to become good in poker .... well yes variance might be big (I've no idea which one is bigger cash, tournament or...)

I find playing with the quiz in SnGWiz is extremely helpful!!!

I was told a few times not to play in sites where rake is more then 10% so I stoppped playing in PartyPoker but now I am back there.. I only win there .. the $6 games are million times easier then the same one in iPoker so I feel happy playing in there... maybe its just variance!! cannt tell from hundred games.....

Norwich Fan Rob

i play stts fairly seriously,
i think the standard is much softer than cash games of similar buy ins, if u can enjoy them and not find them boring, be selective as to who u play against, and handle to horrific swings and the likes of going 6 or 7 bubbles in a row, u can do quite well out of them.

i play as IrishRobbie on mainly ipoker and also stars.

BIGMICKG

sngs rule!! :cool: defo agree with the sng thread idea

Tight Ted

Why limit yourself to just sit and goes?

Hank Scorpio

.25/.50 cash is alot harder to crack than 20$ sngs from my experience
and the bore of waiting for a big hand in cash can also be boring...

Also if u go on tilt in cash the amount of money you`ll loose is unreal(for me neways, remember blowing 800$ in about a hour a week ago)

I find playing 3 tables at once 30$ sngs 6 handed and finishing in the top 2 in at least 2 of them very profitable and very possible. Concentration is the key

cooker3

I doubt enough people play to support a SnG forum here. Just post hands in the HH section

CHD

BIGMICKG wrote: »

sngs rule!! :cool: defo agree with the sng thread idea

.

I think we would be surprised at its popularity.

THEIRISHMOB

zap27 wrote: »

Hi. Theres a thread going here about online poker cash games for a living and I don’t see one for SNG’s so I thought I’d start one. Background on myself-have been player for about a year online and only pay sngs- Heads up only, with a buy in of between $30 and $50 and I would mix it up between all the limits. . Ive played about 2200 games in that time and made just under $3700 so im not too bad but nothing special either.

Is there anyone here who makes their living from SNG’s and if so how do you find it? I had some holidays left over from work recently and took 4 off in a row during the week to see how I would get on. Each SNG heads up lasts about 15 mins on average so I aimed to play 25 games during the day and try to basically just to see how I did. I managed to win about $650 in the 4 days.

Day 1 I got about $300, day 2 $200 day 3 $150 but I actually lost $30 in fees on the last day because I only won 50% of my games. So, were the first few days a fluke or what given my previous win rate above?? Its hard to know because on the 4th day I started off really well with 5 wins in a row and then got disconnected mid game (grr!) and that started the rut for the day which was basically win,lose, ,win,lose, lose after that.

The only tool I use is sharkscope. How would the above compare to someone who is doing it full time? I’m not thinking of packing in the day job any time soon but the first 3 days of playing were pretty interesting!! Any thoughts appreciated

Z

If you played 40games a day with a average buy-in of $40+4 you should be getting rakeback of at least 30% 40x4= 160 you get ur 30% $48 a day rakeback....so even if you only break even you should be getting:

$336 a week in rakeback.........I think its the single most important thing that new players don't pay attention to...!!

Stoko

cooker3 wrote: »

I doubt enough people play to support a SnG forum here. Just post hands in the HH section

I have to dissagree with you. I think if we had a STT forum it will have popularity! The fact that there are lots of stt sites shows it has interest.

People will not post STT in the HH section because they know that most replies there would be from cash players or best MTT which is not good enough. If there was STT forum I would be checking everysingle post there and same applies for many other STT players.

Trust me it will have popularity!

Pitty I have not enought time to do one :-)

zuutroy

I think it would have the opposite effect. As it is, you get some cash players responding to STT hands they happen upon in the HH section. If there was a special STT section, most of these people wouldn't ever read it and there would be even fewer replies.

Stoko

zuutroy wrote: »

I think it would have the opposite effect. As it is, you get some cash players responding to STT hands they happen upon in the HH section. If there was a special STT section, most of these people wouldn't ever read it and there would be even fewer replies.

pitty.... will have to continue with 2+2 for STT then

KevIRL

Guys if you want to request a SnG forum, then this is the place to ask for it.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

Stoko

KevIRL wrote: »

Guys if you want to request a SnG forum, then this is the place to ask for it.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

Thanks just posted a request...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57118715#post57118715

zap27

IrishMob> thanks-I'm getting rakeback now alright but at the time wasnt. Much more clued into the whole rakeback thing now. However you say at least 30% rakeback-are there sites around that give more than that-I havent seen any.

The norm seems to be min 20% and max 30%, unless you badger them for more or something!

Anyone play solely heads ups? Dont find it boring at all actually;)

Flushdraw

cooker3 wrote: »

I doubt enough people play to support a SnG forum here. Just post hands in the HH section

Stoko wrote: »

I have to dissagree with you. I think if we had a STT forum it will have popularity! The fact that there are lots of stt sites shows it has interest.

People will not post STT in the HH section because they know that most replies there would be from cash players or best MTT which is not good enough. If there was STT forum I would be checking everysingle post there and same applies for many other STT players.

Trust me it will have popularity!

Pitty I have not enought time to do one :-)

It doesnt matter if people play sngs or not. Sh1tloads of people on here play a large amount of sngs, but that doesnt make them good, or make you think that a sng forum would be a good idea and full of lots of words of wisdom. I'd defo expect the "cash game" players to drop by with the odd LOL from time to time if sngs have its own subforum.

Thats pretty funny about the advice from cash game players and MTT players not being good enough! If, by cash game players you mean Valor, Cardshark, Ianmc, HJ et all, then i would much rather them give advice on a hand than someone playing sngs fulltime that is probably not even breakeven.

Believe it or not, the better cash game players generally have a grasp for other aspects of poker and are fairly accomplished in all areas and if anyone on the list decided to quit cash games and play sngs solely, i'm pretty sure they have enough knowledge to be quite profitable.

Well Ianmc is a bit of a tilt monkey so maybe not him :pac:

Stoko

Flushdraw wrote: »

It doesnt matter if people play sngs or not. Sh1tloads of people on here play a large amount of sngs, but that doesnt make them good, or make you think that a sng forum would be a good idea and full of lots of words of wisdom. I'd defo expect the "cash game" players to drop by with the odd LOL from time to time if sngs have its own subforum.

Thats pretty funny about the advice from cash game players and MTT players not being good enough! If, by cash game players you mean Valor, Cardshark, Ianmc, HJ et all, then i would much rather them give advice on a hand than someone playing sngs fulltime that is probably not even breakeven.

Believe it or not, the better cash game players generally have a grasp for other aspects of poker and are fairly accomplished in all areas and if anyone on the list decided to quit cash games and play sngs solely, i'm pretty sure they have enough knowledge to be quite profitable.

Well Ianmc is a bit of a tilt monkey so maybe not him :pac:

I have to agree with you!!
But :-) when you narrow the subject it will be easier for SnG players to post, visit, read, get interested in this place and get more discussions and more answers for SnG play from all pros in here. It would be easier for anyone to know that the post is for SnG only :-)
Same applies for all other types I presume..

2+2 is way too big :-) and its not that irish (I am not irish my self just living here) which makes it not that appealing to read..

BIGMICKG

Tight Ted wrote: »

Why limit yourself to just sit and goes?

same could be said for any other form of poker. why limit urself to cash games etc? for me personally i earn $2k a week (from rakeback) excluding any profits sng leaderboard money etc. dont think theres any other form of poker i could make that kind of money. so maybe they can become a bit robotic, repetitve, boring etc but hey it beats working! less hours, no boss to answer to, holidays when u want and pays a hell of a lot more than the average 9-5 job. oh and did i mention its tax free

CHD

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57118715#post57118715

Support it

Stoko

BIGMICKG wrote: »

same could be said for any other form of poker. why limit urself to cash games etc? for me personally i earn $2k a week (from rakeback) excluding any profits sng leaderboard money etc. dont think theres any other form of poker i could make that kind of money. so maybe they can become a bit robotic, repetitve, boring etc but hey it beats working! less hours, no boss to answer to, holidays when u want and pays a hell of a lot more than the average 9-5 job. oh and did i mention its tax free

I hope to extract max from you in eventual SnG forum hahaha

Ace2007

BIGMICKG wrote: »

same could be said for any other form of poker. why limit urself to cash games etc? for me personally i earn $2k a week (from rakeback) excluding any profits sng leaderboard money etc. dont think theres any other form of poker i could make that kind of money. so maybe they can become a bit robotic, repetitve, boring etc but hey it beats working! less hours, no boss to answer to, holidays when u want and pays a hell of a lot more than the average 9-5 job. oh and did i mention its tax free

hey Mick whats the craic, just a few quick question if u don't mind, i heard ur story - about starting off with $50 and now got $xxx,xxx in only 2/3 years, so obv in the early days i figure you grinded it out -

how hard was this? how many hands did you play when starting off before you became a winning player, from the small sample i've played i've seen that you can go 10/15 games without cashing, or indeed run sick good for a while, hence i reckon 40 buyins @ the lowers levels is a must, i was playing on ipoker, but i noticed that there aren't too many $20 6-max STT - what sites are the best to play on?

Also - as said above - i only played 6 max or sometimes heads up - when you started back in the day;) - did you play full ring games - would you advise playing full ring or 6 max or is it really up to the individual...

finally with bankroll, as said above i think havin 40 buyins is a must at the lower limits due to the swings, but playin say $50 STT, how do you adjust your roll - higher limits require a bigger roll but unless you ran sick good - it would take a long time to get the roll - or is that the key - patience and grinding to get to the point where $50 STT and above are worth playin as the money is just as good as working,

Thanks for any advice, and i won't try to constanly rob you BB next time i'm on the same table as you.

Dónal

Hoki

How do you go about getting rakeback from playing sngs ? Can you get get it from pokerstars ?

HiCloy

Hoki wrote: »

How do you go about getting rakeback from playing sngs ? Can you get get it from pokerstars ?

No rakeback on stars just FPPs, you'd get it the same as cashgame rakeback from other sites

cooker3

If you play STT's on OnGame you can get equivalent of 62.5% rb I believe

cardshark202

BIGMICKG wrote: »

same could be said for any other form of poker. why limit urself to cash games etc? for me personally i earn $2k a week (from rakeback) excluding any profits sng leaderboard money etc. dont think theres any other form of poker i could make that kind of money. so maybe they can become a bit robotic, repetitve, boring etc but hey it beats working! less hours, no boss to answer to, holidays when u want and pays a hell of a lot more than the average 9-5 job. oh and did i mention its tax free

but how much do you lose?

BIGMICKG

Ace2007 wrote: »

hey Mick whats the craic, just a few quick question if u don't mind, i heard ur story - about starting off with $50 and now got $xxx,xxx in only 2/3 years, so obv in the early days i figure you grinded it out -

how hard was this? how many hands did you play when starting off before you became a winning player, from the small sample i've played i've seen that you can go 10/15 games without cashing, or indeed run sick good for a while, hence i reckon 40 buyins @ the lowers levels is a must, i was playing on ipoker, but i noticed that there aren't too many $20 6-max STT - what sites are the best to play on?

Also - as said above - i only played 6 max or sometimes heads up - when you started back in the day;) - did you play full ring games - would you advise playing full ring or 6 max or is it really up to the individual...

finally with bankroll, as said above i think havin 40 buyins is a must at the lower limits due to the swings, but playin say $50 STT, how do you adjust your roll - higher limits require a bigger roll but unless you ran sick good - it would take a long time to get the roll - or is that the key - patience and grinding to get to the point where $50 STT and above are worth playin as the money is just as good as working,

Thanks for any advice, and i won't try to constanly rob you BB next time i'm on the same table as you.

Dónal

variance can be pretty big in them but its not as bad in non turbos as turbos imo. 40 buyins is plenty for the lower limits especially non turbos. i always only had around 20-30 buyins when moving up levels. personally i chose to play 9-10 seaters rather than 6 seaters cos i found them alot easier to multi table. regards which site is best im not sure. in terms of traffic pokerstrars by far. but the standard there is higher and rakeback isnt great at the lower levels.

anyway see ye in the fitz saturday and stay away from my blind!!! lol

BIGMICKG

cardshark202 wrote: »

but how much do you lose?

not too sure i understand this question? im a winning player long term

Iago

I think this is a good idea, the main reason for people advocating not having a sub-forum for SNGs is around the fact that most of your decisions should be automatic given the relative stack sizes but there is a whole lot more to consider.

The differences between 10-9-6-5-2 player SNGs
Starting hand requirments as players get knocked out
Starting hand requirements as blind levels increase
When to push with non-optimum hands
The importance of detailed notes on players and good game selection
When it's "ok" to crawl over the bubble
To win or to place, strategies and reasoning
The importance of rakeback and bonuses
The difference between levels

and so on and so forth...

I'm not playing at the moment but if I go back to playing again it'll be predominantly SNGs and I think a sub-forum could get a lot of traffic.

hotspur

If you want a challenge try to lose a low buy in HU HORSE sit n go on Stars. Very very difficult to do.

Tight Ted

hotspur wrote: »

If you want a challenge try to lose a low buy in HU HORSE sit n go on Stars. Very very difficult to do.

Oh rly?

BIGMICKG wrote: »

same could be said for any other form of poker. why limit urself to cash games etc? for me personally i earn $2k a week (from rakeback) excluding any profits sng leaderboard money etc. dont think theres any other form of poker i could make that kind of money. so maybe they can become a bit robotic, repetitve, boring etc but hey it beats working! less hours, no boss to answer to, holidays when u want and pays a hell of a lot more than the average 9-5 job. oh and did i mention its tax free

I just personally would never limit myself to SNGs, I would try to play a bit of cash and tournaments. I see Stevesbets, who was a big HUSNG guy, playing HSPLO on Full Tilt recently, I think it's good to diversify.

I'm not having a go, I do realise you make 100x times more than me playing poker.

BIGMICKG

Tight Ted wrote: »

Oh rly?




I just personally would never limit myself to SNGs, I would try to play a bit of cash and tournaments. I see Stevesbets, who was a big HUSNG guy, playing HSPLO on Full Tilt recently, I think it's good to diversify.

I'm not having a go, I do realise you make 100x times more than me playing poker.

no prob man wasnt having a go at u either. i do play other forms of poker 2. live cash and tourneys. i just depend on sngs for an income

hotspur

Tight Ted wrote: »

Oh rly?

Well maybe you could do it easily enough

Stoko

Any good name for SnG forum?

Free domains are
sngboards.com
sngboard.com
sngie.com

anyone with an idea of a name? I will create one SnG forum for Irish players....