what Licence and what it means

Darr

Hi Guys ,
Well safe installed ( you would need a JCB to get it off the wall) , rifle purchased and just waiting on meeting the FO (over week now!).

I’m a member of a range so on my application I put in for a rifle license and I do not intend to hunt exempt animals (I believe that’s what it said )

so my question for you is

can I ONLY shoot at the range or if say my mate who owns a farm asked me to come for a few shots with him on his land can I ? .

Can I shoot any animals or will it be granted for target only and if it’s for targets only would this be at that range only .

I didn’t make it to the range this week so I couldn’t ask out there .

thanks
Darr

Darr

hmmm is that tumble weed I see blowing past me .. did I ask something wrong or is it another grey area
Darr

ivanthehunter

I'm fairly sure that you will not be allowed shoot any animals with such a licence whether they be protected or unprotected.


Also in relation to letting off a few shots on you friends farm.
Target shooting in or on an unapproved range is an offence in Irish law (again IMO another ridiculous law).
Note: Hunters are allowed to check their zero and adjust their sights and as this procedure is a pre cursor to the hunt (for which you have no licence) and as such it is not deemed as target shooting.

IMO this law was brought into being to stop crowds of people holding illegal meetings with firearms where all sorts of messing might occur. In reality it has stopped people such as your good self and your generous friend having fun on privately owned land. It seem odd that the powers that be would make all activities so convoluted with rules and red tape so as to force people to the pub:o

In principle I dont agree with this law as i see no harm in two people have a few shots at a few cans or bottles (as long as the waste get recycled:p), I do however see an issue with large groups of shooters meeting up. I would like to see this law changed so as to restrict this activity by limiting the number of people to two or three.

AFAIK you could have you licence amended to include hunting but you'll need written permission from three land owners with suitable land both in size and location which would be applicable to rifle shooting.

Best of luck ivanthehunted

Jonty

There's no problem shooting on your mates farm, providing he give you permission, and you're only after vermin. This does not have to be in writing if its not supporting a firearms application.

Exempted animals are deer.

N.O.I.P.

The shooting forum isn't all that heavily trafficed. Someone will probably be along shortly who can answer your question for definite but my take on it would be that once you have permission to hunt on the land and are not after anything protected/out of season you should be fine but im not 100% sure of that.

Darr

Thanks Guys ,
If I get to meet the FO I shall ask him and let you guys know. Certainly wouldn’t want to fall foul of anything , but it all seems a bit overly complicated been honest .
Would be nice if the DOJ built some easy to use/view information on both applying for and what you license entitles you to do (I don’t mean links to a 30 page statute document) on the website.
Certainly would help NOOB's like me ..

oh for the want of some clarity .

Darr

ivanthehunter

My take on it is that if you fill in the application form and you tick the box that says i dont intend to shoot animals as ref to by the '76 wildlife act and then you go of shooting you are breaking the terms of your application and as such you are Prob:rolleyes: committing an offence???
I know a few people in the same boat as this so i'd love to hear other peoples opinions and some legal blah about the issue.

Thehunted:rolleyes:

rrpc

Depends on what rifle you bought

If you bought a hunting rifle for target shooting, then you've got the wrong tool for the job to start with. Secondly, your licence can state whether or not you can use it for vermin control as in if it says target shooting only then that's what you're licenced for.

The whole process of applying for a licence for a sporting (non-target) rifle is completely different in that for the sporting rifle you support your application with permission from landowners. If it's for target shooting you support your application with your club membership.

You can suggest to your FO hat you will want to hunt vermin as well and he may well leave your licence open enough for you to do that.

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Also in relation to letting off a few shots on you friends farm.
Target shooting in or on an unapproved range is an offence in Irish law (again IMO another ridiculous law).

No, not yet. Section 4A isn't commenced yet. When it is, that'll be correct.

Note: Hunters are allowed to check their zero and adjust their sights and as this procedure is a pre cursor to the hunt (for which you have no licence) and as such it is not deemed as target shooting.

We've heard that said by the Minister, and we've heard unofficially that this will be fine, but there is nothing in the law yet that permits this when 4A is in force.

IMO this law was brought into being to stop crowds of people holding illegal meetings with firearms where all sorts of messing might occur.

No, it was brought in so that there could be a safe level of construction enforced on target shooting ranges with rifles. Personally, I think that it wasn't necessary, but we might find in ten years that it brought about a better standard of range.... but then, you could argue that the Celtic Tiger would be equally responsible. Ranges have been getting better in most places just because people had more money to spend on them.

In reality it has stopped people such as your good self and your generous friend having fun on privately owned land.

No reason they couldn't apply to make that privately owned land a range y'know...

It seem odd that the powers that be would make all activities so convoluted with rules and red tape so as to force people to the pub:o

Talk to any rural or urban pub owner about that particular notion sometime

In principle I dont agree with this law as i see no harm in two people have a few shots at a few cans or bottles (as long as the waste get recycled:p),

One poor chap was killed doing exactly that two years ago. He went forward to set up his cans on the wall, his mate had an accidental discharge and put a .270 round through him. There's great potential for harm, that's why formal target shooting is precisely that - formal. Firing lines and lanes and target lines and safe zones and range ettiquitte and range officers and the occasional deployment of a large stick have given us a perfect safety record dating back to at least the 1840s. You'd have to imagine that that has had an impact on the drafters of section 4A.

I do however see an issue with large groups of shooters meeting up. I would like to see this law changed so as to restrict this activity by limiting the number of people to two or three.

There you'd be limiting the right (as in, section 42 of the constition) to assemble. Doing it by saying "oh, only two of you can shoot" is unworkable.




On the original topic, if your licence is a target licence and you hunt with your firearm, you're breaking the terms of your licence and if you do it deliberately (and it's hard not to), then you could be charged under the firearms act for applying for a licence with false information (which has stiff penalties).

Basicly, go back in, talk to your FO and ask to change the licence to a hunting one (you can do target shooting with a hunting licence without problems).

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

On the original topic, if your licence is a target licence and you hunt with your firearm, you're breaking the terms of your licence and if you do it deliberately (and it's hard not to), then you could be charged under the firearms act for applying for a licence with false information (which has stiff penalties).

Indeed. It's far easier to just tell the FO and if he wants you to get land permission, then do it. You'll be better off in the long run.

It wasn't me!

Hmm, nowhere on my cert does it stipulate whether it's for target shooting or hunting; should it? I was assuming the same as Jonty, that "exempted mammals" in the act referred to deer.

Jonty

I've never seen a rifle license that is for target only, and for that matter my fullbore license says nothing about only hunting deer with it, and to apply reverse logic does that mean I can't shoot targets with it?


Can somebody that has a rifle license only for target please elaborate?

IRLConor

Jonty wrote: »

Can somebody that has a rifle license only for target please elaborate?

I don't know for sure. My interpretation of what's on my license is that I could use the rifle to hunt. I couldn't shoot any protected wild birds or hares even in season since I don't have condition A on the cert but anything else that's legal to shoot would be OK. The rifle isn't really suitable for hunting anyway and I don't have anywhere to hunt with it so it's a bit of a moot point for me but it would be interesting to know.

My license is attached if anyone would like to offer an alternative interpretation.

It wasn't me!

Sure the butt-hook can only help when shooting bunnies offhand Conor.

I was of the same opinion anyway, but I'd be glad to hear anyone who can definitively say I couldn't hunt with it, before I do so.

ivanthehunter

:DWhere is the Roboposter with his Chariot of legal wisdom?:D

thehair

IRLConor wrote: »

I don't know for sure. My interpretation of what's on my license is that I could use the rifle to hunt. I couldn't shoot any protected wild birds or hares even in season since I don't have condition A on the cert but anything else that's legal to shoot would be OK. The rifle isn't really suitable for hunting anyway and I don't have anywhere to hunt with it so it's a bit of a moot point for me but it would be interesting to know.

My license is attached if anyone would like to offer an alternative interpretation.

my cert is the same as yours IRLconnor and i shoot gray crow and target
shooting on land i have the farmer ok to shoot on his land i DO NOT shoot
FOX NOT WITH A .22 RINFIRE even at 10 feet away from me steve

rrpc

I've seen one that said 'for target shooting only' after the member of gun club bit.

It wasn't me!

Well, if it doesn't say that, would it be safe to assume that no such restriction exists in my case?

Darr

rrpc wrote: »

Depends on what rifle you bought

If you bought a hunting rifle for target shooting, then you've got the wrong tool for the job to start with. Secondly, your license can state whether or not you can use it for vermin control as in if it says target shooting only then that's what you're licensed for.

Well RRPC I would say that the type of rifle would all depend on the type of target shooting I intend to do and this one is recommended as the standard for gallery

Well I popped in the station in the hope of meeting the FO and hand my application in person , but again he was not there .
I happened to ask a friend of mine who is an armed garda and he wasn’t able to say either way ..
he assumed ( and told me to check with the FO) that it would mean that unless stated on the license that shooting could only take place on the club grounds that it would entitle "normal shooting e.g. bunny’s etc etc and not deer etc (I would hope that no one would be foolish enough to do this though with a .22 !!!) .

still all seems rather gray this and one which I hope I will get sorted when I meet the FO (when ever that may be )

Thanks for all the replies guys much appreciated .
Darr