kid carrier

Harrybelafonte

Can anyone recommend me a good crossbar seat for a 4 year old that would be comfortable for a 10k cycle?

And whether or not it's actually a good idea to use one on a front suspension bike?

rp

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Can anyone recommend me a good crossbar seat for a 4 year old that would be comfortable for a 10k cycle?

Crossbar seats are the most dangerous (over the handlebars), you'd do better with a rear seat with high sides. How heavy is the wee one?
Allianz, who do tests of these things, rate a child trailer as safest, then rear seat, and cross-bar least.

Harrybelafonte

I'd never thought of that, and it's already happened me once, so thanks for making me think of that. My prob with back seats is not being able to see him and the trailers annoy me cos I'd have to continue on for a couple of km alone then.

He's about 15kg

MadHatter

I have one of these for my 14 month old. I find it great. It's got a proper harness so no worries about going over the handlebars. However, the stated weight limit is 18 kilos (about 5 years) so you're unlikely to get much more that a year out of it.
http://www.weerideuk.co.uk/Weeride_Kangaroo.asp

If you're feeling flush you could try this...gets a good review on the site.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24349

rp

Here is a press release by the insurer Allianz, regarding their test findings on this subject (my translation):

The safest way to carry children on a bicycle is to use a dedicated child bicycle trailer,
their passive safety, however, still needs to be improved.
Child seats on the luggage carrier of the bike offer far less protection in the event of an accident.
Carrying children sitting in the area of the handlebars is strongly discouraged from a safety point of view.

This is the conclusion of the Allianz Centre for Technology (AZT) as a result of not less
than 27 comparative crash tests, in which three typical accident situations were emulated:
Bicycle falling over, collision with an open car door and a car collision against the side of the bicycle.

The findings from the Allianz tests has prompted AZT Managing Director Dr. Engineer Dieter Anselm to call
the for the classification of bicycle trailers as passenger transport and to create guidelines for technical
design of bicycle trailers.

The most severe injuries children can suffer, is when carried on a bicycle seat between the handlebars and the rider,
as shown here, when the bicycle is in collision with an open car door [photo missing]

Original:http://azt.allianz.de/azt/Kraftfahrzeugtechnik/Content/Seiten/Presse/Pressearchiv/bis_1997/fahrradanhaenger.html

Harrybelafonte

MadHatter wrote: »

I have one of these for my 14 month old. I find it great. It's got a proper harness so no worries about going over the handlebars. However, the stated weight limit is 18 kilos (about 5 years) so you're unlikely to get much more that a year out of it.
http://www.weerideuk.co.uk/Weeride_Kangaroo.asp

If you're feeling flush you could try this...gets a good review on the site.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24349

The first one looks like a torture instrument and the second is actually what I was considering, however I think rp's logic rings true, especially as backed up by his/her text quote.

I'm just not sure of the trailers, they look damn scary to me. I'd love to find something like the load carriers I saw in copenhagen

Harrybelafonte

like this

http://www.christianiabikes.com/english/uk_main.htm

rp

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I'm just not sure of the trailers, they look damn scary to me.

I guess it depends on your route. I wouldn't fancy towing the trailer on my current commute which includes the Lucan bypass and the Quays.

I used a child trailer on a daily basis for seven years without incident (gonna have to dust it down again, as we've moved out of walking distance of the child minder). Before that, I had a couple of falls with the child seat, which were scary: I had a couple of falls with the trailer attached, and the kids just laughed at me and said "do that again, dad!").

And for two kids, it's a no-brainer.

From behind it's very visible, no one in the right mind would ram you (and if they aren't in their right mind, all bets are off anyway).

In case of an impact with a car, a trailer is pushed aside (this is the main conclusion of the Allianz tests). On top of that, you have weather protection and luggage capacity
- Roy

Harrybelafonte

Makes sense, but not as cool as

rp

Some Swedish friends had on of these tadpole trikes, and it worked well. Just you're stuck with it after you've dropped the kids off. I always used to detach the trailer and leave it at the child minder's.

Here's another German page on the subject of the relative safety of the various options:http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1033/9602anhaenger.html

Sedan for the Pulled-one (word play: also "raised one")
Children in trailers are particularly safe

Institutions close to the car industry fulminate against bike trailers for
the transportation of people, since these colourful, light vehicles are becoming ever more
popular and replacing some second if not first cars.

Hard projectiles must occasionally take the blame for bringing the environmentally friendly
variant of child transportation into disrepute.

Dekra and Bruderhilfe let it be reported that a car speeding into a trailer can be deadly.
That cars are particularly dangerous for everyone without a crumple zone, is
sufficiently well known, without the car lobby engaging in such negative self-publicity.

There are insurance comapnies who make objective assessments of risk.
Last year for the first time the AZT (Allianz Technical Centre) took the trouble to
compare the danger potential of trailers and traditional child seats for
their little passengers. 27 crash tests give a clear message:
children sit more safely in trailers than on the bike.
When AZT chief Dr. Dieter Anselm gave the results on 21 March 1996 in Munich, he described them as
"surprisingly positive" - the AZT had approached the set of tests with a certain amount of reservation.

Subjectively children in a trailer look especially vulnerable, situated at the height of cars' bumpers.
But precisely this can save life in the event of a collision: a car pushes the whole trailer in front of it, while the
cyclist "high on a horse" is catapulted first onto the car and then onto the road.

The transport of children in the area of the handlebars is particularly dangerous;
when they are behind the saddle they come off lighter in head on collisions.

The trailer does not fall over as easily as a bike - and when it does,
then the height of the fall and the potential for injury are clearly
lower.

With child seats bad accidents can take place when the vehicle is being loaded - a trailer with a coupling at axle height remains untouched, when
the towing bike falls over.

The AZT stresses the importance of a stable trailer construction with full belt harness and the use of helmets, so that the children do not come
into contact with the bumper bar.
Unfortunately the correct line for coupling is missing; the models tested could all have been improved.
The sellers and trailer vendors are moving here into uncharted territory: paragraph
21 of the StVO (German road traffic regs) forbids carrying people on the "goods area" of a trailer.
This regulation does not directly apply to bike or special child trailers, but there is room for doubt.

In the view of the AZT this is a pity: "The manufacturers of bike trailers must be given a clearer legislative framework, so that they can further develop this - so far as we candetermine - currently safest transport mode for children and thereby can
contribute to better protection for children in traffic".

MadHatter

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

The first one looks like a torture instrument

Hadn't noticed that before but now that you mention it . But I can assure you it's not, my daughter loves her spin to creche in the mornings.

rp is right though, it depends on your commute. Our trip to creche is only 1km so we just dawdle along through a few quiet housing estates and with the centre mounted seat I can take a few shortcuts (including a small section of footpath ). With a trailer I'd have to use the main road - fast, busy and 3 roundabouts to negociate.

paintkaz

Hi - sorry for chipping in late with my E0.02 - but if I can do anything to discourage people from getting any kind of crossbar child seat. My story on this in a nutshell - I put my eldest lad on a crossbar seat complete with his helmet and straps. He was about three at the time. I was travelling on a bicycle path at a low speed when we had a tiny crash that left him with a broken leg. These front seats are so dangerous - please don't even think about getting one.
He is a young man now and T.G. no serious long term effects- but he has a scar and can predict rain better than met eireann.

kenmc

Cycling in through Ranelagh this morning saw a lad cycling a bakfiets with 2 kids in front. Was chatting to him briefly, he sounded American or Canadian. Had it imported from Holland (where I saw LOADS of them in amsterdam). They're a great looking solution to the problem of cycling with kids - they're in front of you , so they can see where they're going, you can see them, and most importantly they're strapped into a box with sides, so even if you do tip over they should remain scratch free. I reckon when the time comes for me, I'll be away off to holland to buy one of these.

Harrybelafonte

You don't need to go to holland for them: http://www.dutchbike.co.uk/Family3.htm

But the prices are a bit OTT I think anyway

bonniebaby

never get a cossbar seat:eek: der sooooooooo dangerous, get a back seat thigy or d lil tailers

kenmc

a bit expensive, granted, but for piece of mind with your kids on board???
The dutch prices are about the same as the sterling prices, but in euro, (i.e. E1395 instead of Sterling 1395 for the 5speed) so there'd be a saving to be made. 50 quid to throw the bike on the plane and you're done. I have friends in Holland anyway, so I'd be over and back a couple of times a year to warrant the trip.