If there was a Maybach Smart car, would you buy it?

peasant

Most of us do most of our driving on the daily commute ...in other words, stuck in traffic and not going particularly fast, if going at all.

Realistically (at least for the commute) a small econobox with an engine that runs on fumes would be the ideal commuter car for a lot of us. There's only one problem ...econoboxes are usually "economical" all round and pretty joyless places to be in.

If there was an econmy car (something like the Smart or the Aygo) with all the trimmings ...leather, AC, bose sound system, one or two really comfortable seats, nice dash and a bit of a boot ...basically a comfy, cosy armchair on wheels ...would you buy one?

Could that tempt you out of what you drive right now?

daveharnett

I love the idea, but i'm not sure how well it could be done in something the size of a smart. Excessive road noise would be difficult to overcome. Soundproofing adds weight, which is the bane of economical cars. Not to mention the difficulty of producing a small engine that doesn't sound like it's about to explode at 100kph.

I'm wouldn't be eligible for this kind of car anyway - I'd average 80kph on my commute. If I was communting accross town however, I'd be happy to have one.

alias no.9

Something like a Lancia Y except better executed?

cormac_byrne

Smart tried that with the forfour, but they wanted too much money for it

There was a brabus edition with more sports setup (Mercedes gave one to Lewis Hamilton as his first company car a few years back)

Here's one, even runs on LPG
http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/4sale/00368-Smart%20For%20Four%20Passion%20Dual%20Fuel.htm

I've got a bog standard black edition one
i.e. no air con or leather seats.
but does have discs brakes all round.
rear seat slides you you can juggle rear legroom with boot space

OTK

I'd like a small luxury car with a crap engine but I can't buy one. I might get a toyota IQ when it comes out for parkability. I'd prefer a Lexus-type tiny car.

daveharnett wrote: »

Excessive road noise would be difficult to overcome. Soundproofing adds weight, which is the bane of economical cars.

Yes,noise is my least favourite aspect of small cars. It ruins music. Is soundproofing heavy? I thought it was just dense sponge. Double-glazed windows would be heavy.

[quote[Not to mention the difficulty of producing a small engine that doesn't sound like it's about to explode at 100kph..[/QUOTE]You can't legally do more than 50-60kph in most of the city.

I drove to Belfast the other day and few people were doing more than 100kph. I got 56 mpg from my 1l car at avg 100kph.

What is the point in having a fast car when everyone is crawling along?

All the slow driving seems to be reducing the fatal accident rate.

-Chris-

I think you're probably describing a MINI, Peasant (except for the boot ).

Merc tried the small luxury car with the A Class and it bombed, the A3 is generally thought of as a "fat Golf" even though it fits your requirements pretty perfectly.
1 Series, similarly, is a family hatchback sized luxury car, but it's suffered on the second hand side for some reason.

I think if I was running 2 cars - one for me commuting and one for family/long distances/carrying stuff, I'd definitely make sure my one was A3 size or smaller (i.e. if I was a lottery winner, I'd make sure I had a Polo/Aygo/MINI in my fleet).

Small hatchbacks are so much easier to park, cheaper to run etc. and if you're the only one in the car on your commute, who cares how big the back seats are?

peasant

No, Audi Chris ..I'm thinking about something one size (or two) down of what you mentioned.

A real commute-only car ...possibly a single seater, max a two seater with room for the shopping on the way home from work.

-Chris-

Wow, like a G-Wiz or Smart but with full leather heated seats etc. etc?

I gotta say, that wouldn't tempt me out of my normal car, it would be too restrictive in terms of use - I'd need more flexibility.

Go up a size and you've got me, but not something that small.

Vertakill

I dunno. The problem with these super small cars is that they can never be particularly safe because factoring in crumple zones onto a car that's the size of a large dog is quite difficult.

That aside, if you could make a 2 seater little luxury car with all the trimmings, didn't feel like it was about to sh1t itself when revving high and was moderately safe... you never know.

Unfortunately this wouldn't appeal to me in my current job/house as I have to use the m50.

Biro

AudiChris wrote: »

Wow, like a G-Wiz or Smart but with full leather heated seats etc. etc?

I gotta say, that wouldn't tempt me out of my normal car, it would be too restrictive in terms of use - I'd need more flexibility.

Go up a size and you've got me, but not something that small.

I'd agree alright. Either that or a 7 series with an electric motor!! Lovely comfort, plug it in at night, relax to and from work!!

scaldybelt

I'd be easily tempted out of my estate. But to be honest, her indoors wasn't too enamered when I toyed with the idea of getting a Smart for commuting (on my own every day) for fear of me being sandwiched in a pile up.

Telling her I was worth more dead than alive didn't help the argument! :rolleyes:

I knew a guy few years ago who drove a large Merc as a taxi, said he got the missus a Smart car. He preferred the Smart as it was like driving a go cart (that was enough for me to consider one, fuel economy would be close second).

mondeo

Biro wrote: »

I'd agree alright. Either that or a 7 series with an electric motor!! Lovely comfort, plug it in at night, relax to and from work!!

I would not thrust a car that ran on batteries only. I'd be afraid I'd get stuck on the M50 in traffic with it.

My aunt has a prius she bought new in 06 and already the battery is knackered. The car runs for about 45 seconds on the electric in city before the engine comes in... Battery is too expensive to replace like 12k or somthing...Gonna get a second hand battery somewhere and flog the
thing and buy somthing else.

Biro

mondeo wrote: »

I would not thrust a car that ran on batteries only. I'd be afraid I'd get stuck on the M50 in traffic with it.

My aunt has a prius she bought new in 06 and already the battery is knackered. The car runs for about 45 seconds on the electric in city before the engine comes in... Battery is too expensive to replace like 12k or somthing...Gonna get a second hand battery somewhere and flog the
thing and buy somthing else.

True, I was angling from the hypothetical though, given that all things would be reliable!!

OTK

Is it a myth that large cars are safer than small cars? Is a small car with a 5 star ncap less safe than a larger car with a lower rating? A heavy car has more momentum so there is more energy to disperse in a crash.

Vertakill

Well part of the idea of the crumple zone is that it negates some of the energy coming from the crash. If you don't have that crumple zone, where do you think the energy goes? The smaller the car the less space for the energy to disperse into.
The Smart Car is surprisingly sturdy, but you'd be absolutely screwed in a proper crash.

Have a look at this, a Smart Car crash test:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

Alanstrainor

Look up youtube for a video of a smart car crashing head on into a concrete crash barrier at 70mph ish. It's insane, doors still open the whole cockpit remains intact.

2 Espressi

peasant, what you've described isn't a million miles off what I'm driving now. Recaro seats, leather wheel, AC, decent stereo for my mp3s, two doors, seats four max.
Small cars have come a long way in the last 10 years, features like Power steering , AirCon and ABS were once only available in luxobarges, yet you can get them in an Aygo nowadays. As the swing towards small cars continues, we'll see more and more of the luxury items trickle down. Maybe we'll see a Lexus AS110, or a Smart roadster. Looking at the list of options for the Fiat 500, you could build a small but comfortable commuter box.

r3nu4l

The average speed on my commute is 110km/h so this wouldn't be that important for me.

However, were I driving from Lucan to Dublin city centre each day then yes a nice comfortable armchair on wheels would be great

Eoin

OTK wrote: »

Is it a myth that large cars are safer than small cars? Is a small car with a 5 star ncap less safe than a larger car with a lower rating? A heavy car has more momentum so there is more energy to disperse in a crash.

I think it's a myth that older, bigger cars are safer - I think they had an old Volvo tank against a smaller modern car, and the Volvo came out worst.

I don't really get what the benefits of an ultra-small commuter car would be - there seem to be nicely enough specified small cars out there that are quite frugal.

If there was super-super-mini-car only parking, then I might consider it. Otherwise, I'd just get a scooter.

JimmyCrackCorn!

One of the scariest thing iv ever seen is a a smart overtaking a truck in a 60 zone.


Its already a merc and it doesnt do much for me now. To be honest i have 2 problems with the idea.

• Your not really supposed to drive a maybach your supposed to let someone else do that while your in the back with the hookers and coke party. :rolleyes:
• You cant have a hooker and coke party in a smart but it may be worth a try.:rolleyes:

Buy a low boost saab if you want to drive a couch. (only car i ever got a speeding ticket in before the flames start)

daveharnett

OTK wrote: »

Yes,noise is my least favourite aspect of small cars. It ruins music. Is soundproofing heavy? I thought it was just dense sponge. Double-glazed windows would be heavy.

It isn't heavy in itself. However, the design of larger cars reduce road noise as a by-product. For example, the Smart cars have plastic panels, rather than metal, offering less inate sound insulation. The engine in a smart would be mounted closer to the firewall. The small wheel base makes for more road vibration etc.

The point is that it would take a lot of work to make such a small car quiet without adding weight. Filling all the cavities with sponge wouldn't really do it.

Max_Damage

An alternative to this would be to put a Nissan Vanette diesel engine into a Mercedes S-Class or a Jaguar XJ. It was popular back in the 80's apparently.

-Chris-

OTK wrote: »

Is it a myth that large cars are safer than small cars? Is a small car with a 5 star ncap less safe than a larger car with a lower rating? A heavy car has more momentum so there is more energy to disperse in a crash.

Take a look here or Google "Crash test Audi Q7 vs Fiat 500 video".
The Fiat 500 has a 5 star rating, while the Q7 has a 4 star rating, but I can tell you which car I'd rather be in...

Cosmo K

One more reason not to like the Audi Q7.....apart from the fact that it is plain ugly...

RobAMerc

What is it with people that they think because a smart is small your gonna die if a fly hits the screen ?

In Europe I see smart cars hurtling down the motorway at all sorts of speeds.

Irish people have a real issue with size !

Anyway - spec up a diesel Fiat 500 - it would have luxury and a shed load of style and you'd not get people shouting wan*er at you like you would when you got out of a Maybach

superjosh9

eoin_s wrote: »

I think it's a myth that older, bigger cars are safer - I think they had an old Volvo tank against a smaller modern car, and the Volvo came out worst.

unfortunately you are right.. it was a Volvo 945 v. Renault Modus - and the Renault destroyed the Volvo - cutting through it like a rock through paper - indeed using the Volvo as a deformable structure.

I've studied that crash and several others of the 940 including a fatal collision. It's the A-Pillars that are a big problem. Look on old cars - you'll see right angles and straight lines from windscreen to roof - new cars have rounded and strengthened A-Pillars designed to load up and dissipate the energy - and ultimately withstand the impact and keeping the occupants safe. The A-Pillars on the old car, including the 940, will 'snap' - with all integrity to the safety-cell lost.

I've always been a fan of the Smart car. They sell well in Europe I believe - but maybe they are a bit ahead of their time. Always see them flying along the autostrada..

For reasons already suggested, weight etc., think it should remain light. I would consider the Smart to be a classless car that all can/should drive. I believe they are quite safe also, but reckon the A-Class' elk test failing around the same time as its launch did the small, and high micro-car no favours..

Personally I would never sit on a scooter - inherently unstable imo. I'd take a Smart everytime...

superjosh9

AudiChris wrote: »

Take a look here or Google "Crash test Audi Q7 vs Fiat 500 video".
The Fiat 500 has a 5 star rating, while the Q7 has a 4 star rating, but I can tell you which car I'd rather be in...

Good post AudiChris, but would you not agree that the safety of a small car has come a long way? If that was a Fiat 127 vs. Range Rover back in the early 80s - could you imagine the safety cell of the Fiat remaining almost as intact back then?

When you have two modern high-scoring NCAP cars - weight, height all come back into play, thus the Q7/XC90 brigade is always going to win. But a 500 vs. a car of same height, A4 e.g, might do better. Similar - a Volvo C30 vs. Q7 would prob have similar results as the 500 vs. Q7.

But that's different from matching a small, modern 5* NCAP car vs. an old big car such as the 940 - where it's own weight actually works against it.

All in all though, I think the 500 did ok..

-Chris-

Cosmo K wrote: »

One more reason not to like the Audi Q7.....apart from the fact that it is plain ugly...

You could do the same with a Grand Voyager and a MINI, a Landcruiser and a Ka or an X5 and an Aygo. The end result would be the same and how good you think they look wouldn't really affect the outcome much :rolleyes:.

RobAMerc wrote: »

What is it with people that they think because a smart is small your gonna die if a fly hits the screen ?

superjosh9 wrote: »

would you not agree that the safety of a small car has come a long way? If that was a Fiat 127 vs. Range Rover back in the early 80s - could you imagine the safety cell of the Fiat remaining almost as intact back then?

All in all though, I think the 500 did ok..

I'd have to agree, I feel perfectly safe in a smaller car.

In commuting style traffic like Peasant's talking about, you're not going to get in a big shunt anyway, and when flying down the motorway if you get it properly wrong you're probably going to die whether you're in the 500 or the Q7 - they'll both roll.
It's really only backroads driving that I'd be happier in a car with more mass (although not an SUV, they're no fun on back roads ). The question of car-on-car like in the video probably only really applies then.

Eoin

I still don't really see what you would get from a really small commuter car with all the bells and whistles that you don't currently get from of a modern super-mini.

Cionád

superjosh9 wrote: »

unfortunately you are right.. it was a Volvo 945 v. Renault Modus - and the Renault destroyed the Volvo - cutting through it like a rock through paper - indeed using the Volvo as a deformable structure.

Volvo 940 estate. And I have one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWh1sG15zRc

RobAMerc

AudiChris wrote: »

It's really only backroads driving that I'd be happier in a car with more mass (although not an SUV, they're no fun on back roads ).

Well - not being of the mind that I am always expecting to die, I would say its on the back roads you'd enjoy the car with less physical mass the most. Thats exactly why you wouldn't enjoy the SUV (Plus you'll leave a bigger whole in the hedge ). But your point is not lost on me.

I might be about to get a big slating for this but....

People here focus too much on crashing and rely too much on the cars ability to withstand the impact imo.

Alot of the accidents and dickheaded attitude here is caused by people feeling overly secure in their car!

If we all drove cars that insulated us less from the outside world - maybe we would practice better driving!

-Chris-

RobAMerc wrote: »

If we all drove cars that insulated us less from the outside world - maybe we would practice better driving!

Replace the steeringwheel airbag with a 6" spike and you'll soon start to see people driving more carefully...

RobAMerc

AudiChris wrote: »

Replace the steeringwheel airbag with a 6" spike and you'll soon start to see people driving more carefully...

you must know my dad - he says this every day religiously

superjosh9

Cionád wrote: »

Volvo 940 estate. And I have one [URL="http://"][/URL]

So do I

Looks like up to a certain speed it's fine. But in the higher NCAP speeds it doesn't fair so well.

I've taken mine apart a few times - had the dash out yesterday! It's a well made car - unfortunately the safety game has moved on since this thing ruled. Though mine does have side air-bags! I was surprised to find!

Having said that, in the first case - when you drive a 940 - it's a big car and you are visible to others - which might stop some collisions in the first case.

I drive a little S40 too, and the difference in how you get treated between a 940 Estate (a shining example) and the S40 by other road users is huge. You pull out in a 940 - they stop. Do that in an S40 it's beeps and close calls.

not that you should pull out or anything.

But yeh, safety wise - at this stage the 940s is more ehh, psychological than theoretical..! beware :mad:

superjosh9

RobAMerc wrote: »

you must know my dad - he says this every day religiously

lol, I must know both of you also cus I know a few that use that saying too!

Balfa

superjosh9 wrote: »

Having said that, in the first case - when you drive a 940 - it's a big car and you are visible to others - which might stop some collisions in the first case.

Come on, do you really think there's any practical situation where a driver won't see a ton of metal hurtling towards them at 40mph but they would see a ton and a half of metal hutling towards them at 40mph? Although I suppose you've already answered my question with your point about the safety being psychological. On top of this, 940s are incredibly low for their length, and when it's hurtling towards you, it's generally facing you... they have a relatively small frontal area. Besides, colour is a far more significant eyecatcher than an extra metre of boot space. And most old volvos I've seen are dark green or dark blue, which is not good visibility wise, though there are significant numbers of silver estates.

Finally, as RobAMerc alluded to, any remote possibility of visibility due to size making you safer will be completely overwhelmed by the car's lack of handling. Not only due to its excessive weight, but also due to modern cars having much improved handling due to newer suspension technologies, stiffer frames, etc. Throw in on top of that the addition of newer active safety features such as ABS, traction control and stability control, and it's a total walkover.

MadsL

I don't need a Mayback Smart Car - I drive a regular one.

I laugh every time that I:

1. Fill up with fuel
2. Tax it
3. Nip through a gap you lot dragging those empty rear seats around can't fit through.
4. Park in the 'impossible' space beyween two space hogging SUVs

And yes, 120 kmph+ quite nicely thanks...

Perfect car.

superjosh9

Balfa wrote: »

Come on, do you really think there's any practical situation where a driver won't see a ton of metal hurtling towards walkover...

I was talking about low speed junctions etc. Slab-sided 940 estates are pretty visible. Anyway, it's an observation.. but yeh, I'd say it's practical.

All said and done with handling and aids, driver is the most important factor in avoiding collisions...

btw-How come, no matter what I say, on no matter what thread, I seem to get picked up on everything?

Balfa

superjosh9 wrote: »

btw-How come, no matter what I say, on no matter what thread, I seem to get picked up on everything?

Heheh, sorry. Maybe you have different world views.

superjosh9

yep - sure each to his own

randomer

What about the smart for two brabus? That has a lot of extras including leather heated seats.

RobAMerc

superjosh9 wrote: »

So do I


Having said that, in the first case - when you drive a 940 - it's a big car and you are visible to others - which might stop some collisions in the first case.

I read somehwere years ago that a study showed motorists could spot a cop motorbike faster than they would notice a 40 tonne truck,

I imagine this wasn't done in Ireland however as motorists here wouldn't spot either and just pull out

superjosh9

RobAMerc wrote: »

I read somehwere years ago that a study showed motorists could spot a cop motorbike faster than they would notice a 40 tonne truck,

I imagine this wasn't done in Ireland however as motorists here wouldn't spot either and just pull out

damn Volvo drivers :pac:............!

ps. If the Smart had been priced cheaper - would see more about.

btw - whats the gearbox in the smart? Does it have a fully auto mode?

MadsL

whats the gearbox in the smart? Does it have a fully auto mode?

Auto is an option.

Standard is a semi-auto (no clutch) but if you redline it it shifts up automatically, also drops down under braking. Auto to first when you stop. It also holds the brakes automatically for a sec until you hit the gas (hill start assist)

Don't buy an auto - the semi is a much more fun gearbox.

superjosh9

MadsL wrote: »

Auto is an option.

Standard is a semi-auto (no clutch) but if you redline it it shifts up automatically, also drops down under braking. Auto to first when you stop. It also holds the brakes automatically for a sec until you hit the gas (hill start assist)

Don't buy an auto - the semi is a much more fun gearbox.

hmm I read about that - so they offer the semi-auto, which has the ability to auto-shift, but not the ability to drive in a full-auto mode? Interesting... Yeh, I would like to try one sometime. Always liked the roadster-coupe thing whatever its called also. I fear getting run over by a Range Rover - at least the 4/2 has height..!

MadsL

Yeh, I would like to try one sometime.

Don't be put off the first time you try one, a test-drive is a waste of time, best way to get the feel (and love) of a Smart is to rent one for a few days. They take a bit of getting used to, and you have to drive a good bit more agressively to get the most out of the 700cc until the turbo catches up. Then you can have great fun with them - I absolutely thrash mine and still get about 45-50 mpg. Sensible acceleration will get you 60mpg.

A couple of summers ago in Italy I was lucky enough to rent one of these...if I had a) the money (only 2000 built) and b) lived somewhere sunnier I'd love one.

eamon234

there's a new Brabus version I saw it at the British Motorshow yesterday