[Article] Ikea says M50 upgrade will delay Dublin opening

IIMII

Irish Times, 24/07.2008

DUBLIN'S NEW Ikea store is likely to be "mothballed" for at least seven months following its construction because of what the company says is a delay in upgrading the M50.
The distinctive blue-and-yellow frame of the 31,800sq m building has now been erected on lands bordering the M50 and St Margaret's Road in north Dublin. The company said the 56-week build is three weeks ahead of schedule.
The premises is due to be completed by January and will be ready for business from the following month. An access road is currently being built to connect it to a slip road off the M50.
However, upgrade works on the M50 will not be complete until the "tail end of next year", the National Roads Authority (NRA) said last night.
Ikea said this delay would prevent it from opening, adding that it had never experienced such a delay in opening any of its 282 stores in 36 countries. It has not yet had a store set back by more than two weeks, said Garry Deakin, Ikea's Ireland manager.
Mr Deakin said it was now his understanding that the M50 project in the area would be complete by late summer 2009 and he commented that Ikea was "unhappy" about this.
He stressed relations with the NRA were very good, but said Ikea would be very happy if contractors could "accelerate their works" on the M50 to allow Ikea to open early next year.
Mr Deakin said Ikea had 475 permanent jobs to offer in Dublin, but could not advertise the posts until it could confirm an opening date with the NRA.
He said the construction cost for the new store, which is bigger than the one in Belfast, is between €105 million and €110 million and some 45 management personnel had been hired already.
A spokesman for the NRA said that the M50 improvement works were "paramount to the functionality" of the motorway and the enhancement was being done to satisfy the taxpayer and not any private companies.
He added: "The NRA is adhering to [ its] schedule to complete the upgrade to the M50 . . . we are doing our best to get it done as soon as possible."
Ikea said it was confident it would attract some 2.75 million customers to the Dublin branch in year one, despite an economic downturn. Mr Deakin said that the firm had been trading since 1943 through various economic cycles and the Ikea range was "strong in a downturn because it is pitched at that end of the market".
Ikea is also investing €1.75 million into environmental processes at the store to include a €117,000 facility whereby rainwater from the roof will be collected in a 40ft tank and then filtered for use in flushing the toilets.
Concrete from a former flat block in Ballymun has been used as bulk filling to level the land on the 12.7 hectare site. The store will include a 500-seat restaurant, a bistro, a cafe and a Swedish food hall as well as a free creche. It will have more than 1,500 parking spaces and will carry almost 10,000 products.
Mr Deakin said the company had been involved in extensive consultation with nearby residents in the St Margaret's Road area to minimise disruption to them during construction.

crushproof

IIMII wrote: »

Irish Times, 24/07.2008

Ikea said this delay would prevent it from opening, adding that it had never experienced such a delay in opening any of its 282 stores in 36 countries. It has not yet had a store set back by more than two weeks, said Garry Deakin, Ikea's Ireland manager.

Welcome to Ireland.....:rolleyes:

godtabh

To be far what does Ikea expect? They want the NRA to hurry up because it suits them. It doesnt work like that.

It maybe different if the NRA agreed to dates and were falling behind on them but that doesnt sound like something the NRA would do

markpb

kearnsr wrote: »

To be far what does Ikea expect? They want the NRA to hurry up because it suits them. It doesnt work like that.

They were granted planning permission on the specific understanding that the M50 would be upgraded. If memory serves, they even offered to pay for the part of the upgrade that applies to them but were turned down.

Irjudge1

Poor IKEA.:(

If this was a hospital, school, library even then I'd be concerned. As it is a large multinational chain selling stuff we don't need to make the worlds richest richer. I am unpreturbed.:cool:

Who is going to pay for the suggested "acceleration" of the works. It won't be the NRA. Maybe the contractor has a liking for stylish scandanavian furniture. They could pay in table lamps.

godtabh

markpb wrote: »

They were granted planning permission on the specific understanding that the M50 would be upgraded. If memory serves, they even offered to pay for the part of the upgrade that applies to them but were turned down.

They were granted planning permission on the basis that the M50 would have to be finished before the Ikea could open.

The NRA isn't a developer. Its purpose is to develop the road infrastructure of Ireland not to facilitate developers who knew what the situation and constraints would be when they went to planning.

Ikea will have to pay the NRA (via Fingal County Council) for the upgrade works in the forms of levies etc. Its also not far to suggest that Ikea who can afford to pay the NRA be given preferential treatment over other infrastructure works that might be more critical.

markpb

Irjudge1 wrote: »

If this was a hospital, school, library even then I'd be concerned. As it is a large multinational chain selling stuff we don't need to make the worlds richest richer. I am unpreturbed.:cool:

Where do you think the government gets the money to build schools, libraries and hospitals? Bingo. Private companies. If they can't set up here or there are too many unnecessary impediments, we lose out on corporate taxes, PAYE, development levies, etc. Delaying construction until the necessary infrastructure is in place is a good thing. Delaying it by years is a bad thing.

Irjudge1 wrote: »

Who is going to pay for the suggested "acceleration" of the works. It won't be the NRA. Maybe the contractor has a liking for stylish scandanavian furniture. They could pay in table lamps.

linky

The Swedish furniture retailer IKEA has reportedly offered to pay the cost of speeding up roadworks on the M50 motorway in Dublin.

Yesterday, An Bord Pleanala approved the company's plans for a massive 30,000 square metre outlet in Ballymun, but said the store could not open until works on the nearby M50 interchange are complete. Those works are not expected to be finished until 2010, but reports this morning say IKEA has offered to pay the cost of speeding up the project so it can open in September of next year.

Polar101

Irjudge1 wrote: »

If this was a hospital, school, library even then I'd be concerned. As it is a large multinational chain selling stuff we don't need to make the worlds richest richer. I am unpreturbed.:cool:

Even though it is more fashionable to say someone will just get richer, IKEA would bring a lot of a new jobs and help the Irish economy.

If they can't open a store in Dublin, they'll just go somewhere else. Would that be good?

paulm17781

Polar101 wrote: »

Even though it is more fashionable to say someone will just get richer, IKEA would bring a lot of a new jobs and help the Irish economy.

Don't forget cheap furniture. There used to be another shop (I'll leave nameless) that sold Ikea stuff for a fortune (by comparison). I bought some of it because it was nice but cheap furniture is a nice touch. Not forgetting the ~500 jobs they'll bring at a (apparent) time of recession.

I hate the "rich get richer" argument. It is normally said by spoiled middle class kids with extremely wealthy parents who don't care about jobs because they know they have daddies inheritance coming to them.

I don't blame Ikea for being annoyed, they offered to pay for it FFS.

dogmatix

Perhaps they are using this as an excuse to delay opening here, what with the downturn in the economy and slow down in housing. They are maybe thinking a large furniture store and other household asscessories might not be so viable after allor in the short term. They would have seen what happened to Habitat.

markpb

dogmatix wrote: »

Perhaps they are using this as an excuse to delay opening here, what with the downturn in the economy and slow down in housing. They are maybe thinking a large furniture store and other household asscessories might not be so viable after allor in the short term. They would have seen what happened to Habitat.

On the other hand, maybe people would be more likely to buy cheap furniture in a recession Habiti, for all it's virtues, was not cheap.

paulm17781

dogmatix wrote: »

Perhaps they are using this as an excuse to delay opening here, what with the downturn in the economy and slow down in housing. They are maybe thinking a large furniture store and other household asscessories might not be so viable after allor in the short term. They would have seen what happened to Habitat.

Habitat closed because they are c*n*s. I doubt Ikea would do that as they know that in tougher times people want cheap furniture. They'd also know how busy the Belfast shop is and know here will probably be busier.

Victor

Don't they own Habitat?

I think that Ikea need to realise that whereever they set up, they are asking the locals to change to suit Ikeas needs - largely by virtue of the size of their stores. Perhaps the comp[laints are a bit disingenuous.

whosedaddy?

Victor wrote: »

Don't they own Habitat?

Yes they do - sort off.
Since 1992 Habitat is owned by IKANO which is majority owned by Ingvar Kamprad.

Anyway, yeah not sure what IKEA is moaning about. When they got planning permission the expected completion of M50 was 2010. They started construction despite their offer to pay for road works acceleration.. so what did they think the timetable for completion would be - 2010

The only concern is

He added: "The NRA is adhering to [ its] schedule to complete the upgrade to the M50 . . . we are doing our best to get it done as soon as possible."

Doing their best is usually not an awful lot... and the only certainty with their schedules is that they will change all the time....

L1011

Victor wrote: »

Don't they own Habitat?

Habitat in Ireland was a franchiser that went under rather than the parent pulling it out.

steve-o

crushproof wrote: »

Welcome to Ireland.....:rolleyes:

Here's a summary of events:
IKEA: We want to build a megastore.
Planners: Wow, that's pretty huge, way bigger than what we normally allow, but we'll allow you to do it, on condition that you don't open until the M50 interchange is ready.
...
...
IKEA: Wah wah wah. We built our store with undue haste and can't open it because of a planning condition that we knew about all along. Wah wah wah.

newbusiness

steve-o wrote: »

undue haste

Undue haste?
Sweet Jebus, only in Ireland...:rolleyes:


They offered hundreds of new jobs,
It required that we changed our antiquated planning laws, boo-hoo.
They even offered to pay for the slip road if we could keep to schedul
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/ikea-offers-to-fund-speedier-roadworks-on-m50-701555.html

Sometimes I hate being Irish...

Irjudge1

markpb wrote: »

Where do you think the government gets the money to build schools, libraries and hospitals? Bingo. Private companies. If they can't set up here or there are too many unnecessary impediments, we lose out on corporate taxes, PAYE, development levies, etc. Delaying construction until the necessary infrastructure is in place is a good thing. Delaying it by years is a bad thing. QUOTE]

Yes I know where the money comes from and I contrbute my share. There is no unneccessary impediment as far as I can see in relation to this. IKEA have been conditioned like so many other developments on the periphery of the M50 that they cannot commission until the relevent infrastructure is in place. The dogs in the street knew that the capacity of the M50 was going to be an issue for them. The NRA are on schedule, IKEA do not say that they are behind schedule. IKEA constructed their own facility on programme, good for them, well managed, however they made a bad call on an already predetermined opening date.

The article is a press release not a real story, turn up the heat on the NRA to get them to comply with the might of IKEA. " Hey people you want our furniture your public bodies are preventing us from giving it to you what do you think of that?" "And by the way we harvest rainwater and use recycled materials for our construction!" (Both very sensible andmay well be with the best of intentions. However they make economic sense particularly the use of crushed concrete as subbase material. The rainwater is likely part of a strategy to restrict rainwater discharges to levels acceptable to the local authority. They are also excellent sound bites for a modern and progressive company.)

My original point was, and I was probably too facetious for my own good, is that I believe if this was serving essential services like a hospital then the acceleration of the works should be seriously considered. However because a private concern wants to override the planning system, which is there to protect us and our rights, by using financial and PR muscle I don't see why the NRA should relent.

Oh and by the way paulm17781 your right the rich getting richer argument is lame. I'm working towards middle class but if there is an inheritance coming it's well hidden.

markpb

Irjudge1 wrote: »

My original point was, and I was probably too facetious for my own good, is that I believe if this was serving essential services like a hospital then the acceleration of the works should be seriously considered. However because a private concern wants to override the planning system, which is there to protect us and our rights, by using financial and PR muscle I don't see why the NRA should relent.

I would never advocate that Ikea be allowed to subvert or alter the planning process simply because they have money. They were told they could open when the M50 was complete, they're not trying to change that and I've no idea where that idea came from or why you're suggesting it. No-one is trying to override the planning system, they're trying to alter NRA priorities which is completely different.

If the extra money they had offered to give to the NRA means two sections can be done at once, there's no change to the NRA priorities either. Essentially, they get to open sooner (and start paying taxes sooner) and all the other people and businesses in the area benefit from a free road upgrade.

godtabh

Irjudge1 wrote: »

The article is a press release not a real story, turn up the heat on the NRA to get them to comply with the might of IKEA. " Hey people you want our furniture your public bodies are preventing us from giving it to you what do you think of that?" "And by the way we harvest rainwater and use recycled materials for our construction!" (Both very sensible andmay well be with the best of intentions. However they make economic sense particularly the use of crushed concrete as subbase material. The rainwater is likely part of a strategy to restrict rainwater discharges to levels acceptable to the local authority. They are also excellent sound bites for a modern and progressive company.)

I think if you ask any QS you'll find rainwater harvesting and reused aggregate is expensive stuff. The additional costs of the internal pulmbing along can be unreal.

The reason why people are using recycled aggregates is because some of the traditional aggregates are getting harder to come by like 63-10mm stone.

As for restricting green field discharges thats nothing new. Its been going on for years.

jimmycrackcorm

Can someone explain to me why Ikea has to wait for the M50 upgrade? Are we not suffering under the delusion that this is the best thing since sliced bread.

I remember when B&Q opened up in Liffey Valley; On the first weekend there were queues from the M50 to the LV underpass. A few days later everyting back to normal.

I can't see why they don't simply let Ikea open up, warn people that there might be potential delays so that they can alter their travel pattern if necessary, and if the imagined deluge actually turns up then tell Ikea that they have to open at a later hour.

I think the Apple 3g Iphone sales hysteria should be a lesson learned for those fearful civil servants who imagine that tens of thousands of cars will turn up in Ikea every morning in rush hour.

godtabh

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why Ikea has to wait for the M50 upgrade? Are we not suffering under the delusion that this is the best thing since sliced bread.

There isnt sufficient capacity at the M50 roundabout to deal with extra trips generated by Ikea.

Once the peak falls off there could be a couple hundred extra trips peer day

galwayrush

Amazing, this store was announced long before the Belfast one was ever mentioned, what a ****ed up Republic.:rolleyes:

Irjudge1

kearnsr wrote: »

I think if you ask any QS you'll find rainwater harvesting and reused aggregate is expensive stuff. The additional costs of the internal pulmbing along can be unreal.

The reason why people are using recycled aggregates is because some of the traditional aggregates are getting harder to come by like 63-10mm stone.

As for restricting green field discharges thats nothing new. Its been going on for years.

Yeah the cost of rainwater pipework is I'm sure expensive but you also have to consider the reduction the in the cost of potable water used and the cost reduction in attenuation structures. Somebody like IKEA will only have a limited use for grey water and therefore no financial benefit and a probable loss. Crushed concrete is a different story, my experience is that crushed concrete for capping is significantly cheaper than crushed stone. On a building with a footprint the size of IKEA there is potential for a significant saving.

I know attenuation is nothing new but I haven't seen much use of rainwater harvesting as part of surface water strategy. An increased use is likely since water conservation plans are being requested as part of planning permissions and again this may have been conditioned on IKEA's planning.

If the extra money they had offered to give to the NRA means two sections can be done at once, there's no change to the NRA priorities either. Essentially, they get to open sooner (and start paying taxes sooner) and all the other people and businesses in the area benefit from a free road upgrade.

Fair enough

godtabh

galwayrush wrote: »

Amazing, this store was announced long before the Belfast one was ever mentioned, what a ****ed up Republic.:rolleyes:

Whats the date of announcements got to do with it? Does the world standstill when Ikea announces a shop?

Irjudge1 wrote: »

Yeah the cost of rainwater pipework is I'm sure expensive but you also have to consider the reduction the in the cost of potable water used and the cost reduction in attenuation structures. Somebody like IKEA will only have a limited use for grey water and therefore no financial benefit and a probable loss. Crushed concrete is a different story, my experience is that crushed concrete for capping is significantly cheaper than crushed stone. On a building with a footprint the size of IKEA there is potential for a significant saving.

I know attenuation is nothing new but I haven't seen much use of rainwater harvesting as part of surface water strategy. An increased use is likely since water conservation plans are being requested as part of planning permissions and again this may have been conditioned on IKEA's planning.



Fair enough

Ikea's up take in grey/brown water will be limited compared to say a block of apartments. I would say that despite them using harvesters they will still put the excess back into the surface water network.

I've been specifying rain water harvesters for about 4 years. They are very popular in Wicklow for once of housing. THey get more expensive as usage goes up.

As for crushed concrete it is becoming cheaper as supply goes up. Its still expensive to produce but with Ballymun being close there is a decent supply there. The quality isnt great but it does have its uses.

dogmatix

paulm17781 wrote: »

Habitat closed because they are c*n*s. I doubt Ikea would do that as they know that in tougher times people want cheap furniture. They'd also know how busy the Belfast shop is and know here will probably be busier.

And speaking of Habitat, apparently they are open today in a desperate attempt to sell off their over-priced stock at dirt cheap prices...

FinoBlad

I was in the Belfast store last week, there was so many shoppers with southern accents. Long queues at the check-outs.

If the M50 could be accelerated, I would love to see it. Forget the IKEA profits, forget the shoppers, our economy could use all those millions in lost VAT and those jobs would be sweet.

scab-e

paulm17781 wrote: »

Habitat closed because they are c*n*s. I doubt Ikea would do that as they know that in tougher times people want cheap furniture. They'd also know how busy the Belfast shop is and know here will probably be busier.

Habitat has been run by IKEA since 1992. My impression was that the Irish Habitat franchise shut due to operational problems. Orders could take more than a year to fulfill. Habitat is not an expensive furniture shop.

IKEA's style of shop is environmentally unsound. As part of planning permission, we could have required them to offer free delivery, to make a building connected with other neighbourhood buildings and streets and that can be accessed on foot without a long march across thousands of parked cars in a surface lot. IKEA's business model is dependent on the state constructing a motorway next to their barn. That's not why we build motorways. Or is it?

paulm17781

scab-e wrote: »

Habitat has been run by IKEA since 1992. My impression was that the Irish Habitat franchise shut due to operational problems. Orders could take more than a year to fulfill. Habitat is not an expensive furniture shop.

It was franchised out to a group called 'i gconai' or some such here. They're the ones I was referring to not the Habitat group. Their "operational problems" were people weren't willing to spend 1,000 on a coffee table anymore.

If you think Habitat is not expensive, you must have an awful lot of money and very nice furniture. I once heard it referred to as "the ideas shop".

Terrontress

galwayrush wrote: »

Amazing, this store was announced long before the Belfast one was ever mentioned, what a ****ed up Republic.:rolleyes:

The Belfast store was delayed by half a year or so too. When they saw how difficult it was going to be to get it over the line in the Republic, they resubmitted their planning application for a much bigger store to accomodate people from both sides of the border. As a result, the Belfast store is the largest in the UK.

xt40

all this talk of upgrading the 50 is rubbish.
ive been in the belfast ikea a good few times and have worked in that area regularly for the past 5 years. i have never noticed any difference in the traffic on the sydenham bypass. for anyone who weants a comparison, id say its about as busy as b&Q in liffey valley.

FinoBlad

xt40 wrote: »

all this talk of upgrading the 50 is rubbish.
ive been in the belfast ikea a good few times and have worked in that area regularly for the past 5 years. i have never noticed any difference in the traffic on the sydenham bypass. for anyone who weants a comparison, id say its about as busy as b&Q in liffey valley.

Agree. Probably very busy for the first week then no more as you say than liffey valley from then on.

If anyone looks at the average daily traffic on the M50 (probably above 100,000 cars now), looks at IKEAs expectation of 2.75 million visitors per year (7,500 average per day) Not all these will be in their own car and because of the long opening hours not everyone will be arriving at the same time.

So I dont see how bigger an impact this will make than your average B+Q to be honest. Certainly not after the first weeks opening.

Davidth88

As a result, the Belfast store is the largest in the UK.

Is it ?

It didn't seem that big to me , I thought the one in Wembley seemed bigger but it could be perception

When B&Q opened in Liffey Valley it caused traffic chaos for about 2 weeks, then every weekend for about 2 months. Now its never that busy.

I was in IKEA in Belfast a couple of times over the past 3-4 weekends , it seemed quite quiet to me, much less busy than the one in Wembley which at the weekend is just horrible .

Anyway roll on the M50 being finished, I had to pick someone up from the airport the other day , when we got home ( Celbridge ) they made a comment along the lines of ' is there nothing but roadworks here ( M50 /M50/N4 interchange /N4/Newcastle rd interchange ).

Stark

markpb wrote: »

They were granted planning permission on the specific understanding that the M50 would be upgraded. If memory serves, they even offered to pay for the part of the upgrade that applies to them but were turned down.

As far as I know, money isn't the issue in speeding up the works. Keeping 2 lanes open in each direction for the duration of the works is what's causing it to take a long time. In order to speed up the process they'd need to close off the M50 around Ballymun and that would cause chaos.

Terrontress

Davidth88 wrote: »

Is it ?

It didn't seem that big to me , I thought the one in Wembley seemed bigger but it could be perception

That's what was reported in the media. I've been in 2 in England and the Belfast ones and they are all so large that I couldn't compare them.

godtabh

xt40 wrote: »

all this talk of upgrading the 50 is rubbish.
ive been in the belfast ikea a good few times and have worked in that area regularly for the past 5 years. i have never noticed any difference in the traffic on the sydenham bypass. for anyone who weants a comparison, id say its about as busy as b&Q in liffey valley.

You should become a planner. Clearly they dont know what they are talking about.

spacetweek

The OP's article is nonse. In Ikea's planning permission was the condition that the M50 had to be complete in order for them to open their store. It's totally their own fault for building the structure to a different timetable to the M50.
They're acting like the NRA messed up, when it's themselves.

I hate this corporate hand wringing ("What's the government going to do for *us*.")