Compromise rules Embarrassed again?

wordcount

Will Ireland get demolished and humiliated again this year as was the case two years ago. Anyone pick a team to actually compete?

One Cold Hand

I was gonna say we'll be stuffed, but that may be a bit strong.
I reckon we'll be comprehensively beaten.

DiscoHugh

I still have haunting memories of attending that game in croke park with my then girlfriend who is a big Ozzie rules fan.....made me stay til the very end

mousey007

i hope they pick the right players for a change!!

future_plans

Get somebody from the AFL or an ex AFL coach involved in the selection process and as part of the management.

Yavvy

I think we need to bring a bit more skill into intl' rules. Right now its a contest of strenght and speed. The auzzies have us hammered in that dept. I know the round ball is a dissavantage to them but not major. perhaps a solo every 5 steps and get rid of the behinds ?

CyberDave

The aussies just bring shear brute force really and worry about the skill once they have intimidated their opponents. A team with a more physical core would probably be the best to take on Australia. Fifteen players along the lines of Corks Michael Cussen should do the trick then.

kerry4sam

have they set the dates yet?

Pride Fighter

Francie Bellew should be captain. If the Aussies do try and batter us they wont get far with him in the team.

One Cold Hand

CyberDave wrote: »

The aussies just bring shear brute force really and worry about the skill once they have intimidated their opponents. A team with a more physical core would probably be the best to take on Australia. Fifteen players along the lines of Corks Michael Cussen should do the trick then.

Unfortunately if we go the physical route we will be killed. The AFL probably has about 30 players bigger and stonger than Michael Cousins.

newballsplease

International NO rules - Someone should probably tell the players your not actually allowed to punch someone in the face.

the refs have to have a bigger say in these games, cards must be issued. if you get sin bined there shouldnt be any replacement.

Ireland must focus more on the physical tackling, they were very poor at this before.

the ozzies are only thugs anyway. so itl probably be a repeat of old times.

Xavi6

kerry4sam wrote: »

have they set the dates yet?

See my sig.


The problem is that the Aussies are actually really, really skillful on the ball as well so it's not just as simple as concentrating on that. If Ireland can get more of a 'team' mantality going then it'll give them a chance. The physical route is most definitely a no no.

Xavi6

newballsplease wrote: »

the ozzies are only thugs anyway. so itl probably be a repeat of old times.

:rolleyes:

Oh RLY? Poor innocent amateurs eh?

Tazwas

Xavi6 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Oh RLY? Poor innocent amateurs eh?

i know how you feel

newballsplease

well thats my opinion anyway, the vast majority of incidents which happened throughout the series over last cuple of years have been started by the Australians.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=_OlAewfi3po

Xavi6

newballsplease wrote: »

well thats my opinion anyway, the vast majority of incidents which happened throughout the series over last cuple of years have been started by the Australians.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=_OlAewfi3po

2006 -

First test - Graham Geraghty was cited for a knee to the head of Australia's Lindsay Gilbee.


Second Test - A tackle by Australia's Danyle Pearce on Ireland's Graham Geraghty in the second test left Geraghty unconscious and requiring hospitalisation. The act was considered a "square up", further adding tensions to the series. Despite several on-field incidents, including a shirtfront by Adam Selwood which resulted in the broken nose of an Irish opponent and a headbutt to Australia's Ryan O'Keefe which left his face bloodied, red cards were not used and the actions were cleared by the match review panels.

That would make it 2-2


Plus the only reason anyone went near Geraghty was because he kicked it all off in the first test with the knee to Gilbee's head.

ironictoaster

I wish it was killed off. There's no skill involved in international rules whatsoever.

newballsplease

exactly the ozzies deliberatly went out to get gerathy. do you remember johnson 2005??, what a thug, should be in a ring not on a field.

newballsplease

creggy wrote: »

I wish it was killed off. There's no skill involved in international rules whatsoever.

why would you wish that? its a fantastic game, if played by the rules in a sporting manner.

Xavi6

creggy wrote: »

I wish it was killed off. There's no skill involved in international rules whatsoever.

Lol really? The game combines the strong aspects of both sports so of course there's skill involved.

newballsplease wrote: »

exactly the ozzies deliberatly went out to get gerathy. do you remember johnson 2005??, what a thug, should be in a ring not on a field.

Just like Geraghty you mean?

newballsplease wrote: »

why would you wish that? its a fantastic game, if played by the rules in a sporting manner.

+1 to that anyway.

ironictoaster

newballsplease wrote: »

why would you wish that? its a fantastic game, if played by the rules in a sporting manner.

Yeah, key word "if"

C'mon lets face it, Aussies and Irish aren't going to play nicely or have any sportsmanship anytime soon.

Kill it off.

ironictoaster

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol really? The game combines the strong aspects of both sports so of course there's skill involved.

Yes I really think so. It's doing no favors for either sport. I don't know what you wore watching but, I was watching grown men roll around on grass beating each other up.

Xavi6

creggy wrote: »

Yes I really think so. It's doing no favors for either sport. I don't know what you wore watching but, I was watching grown men roll around on grass beating each other up.

I agree that the antics are disgraceful (from BOTH sides) but to say there's no skill involved is a tad unfair.

ironictoaster

Xavi6 wrote: »

I agree that the antics are disgraceful (from BOTH sides) but to say there's no skill involved is a tad unfair.

I maybe a bit harsh but, I don't see the skill involved. You never see skill unless it's played correctly.

I think the whole needs to be revamped to have any future. I think having it as a bi-annual event isn't doing anything other just avoiding the matter in hand.

Maybe if the players met before hand or something may help.

All I know, I expect another blood bath.

An Citeog

Xavi6 wrote: »

Plus the only reason anyone went near Geraghty was because he kicked it all off in the first test with the knee to Gilbee's head.

Far be it from me to defend Graham Geraghty but I think way too much has been made of that knee. He was pinned to the ground by an Aussie at the time and trying to fight him off. Unsurprisingly, this pinning to the ground is something that the Aussies like to do a lot.

As for only citing 2006, Johnson's rampage the year before was absolutely disgraceful. I remember another incident a few years ago aswell when the Aussies targeted Ciaran McDonald as the Irish dangerman and before the ball was even thrown in, they were laying punches into him on the ground. That's where proper referees are needed, who actually enforce the rules.

Xavi6

Oh I agree fully on the Johnson thing. His forearm smash was shocking, and to be fair in the AFL, a Fremantle player just got a 9 week ban for doing that very thing in a game here two weeks ago so the Aussie authoritives are fully behind stamping out that sort of shit.

One Cold Hand

The problem is that lads can do this, ie punch someone as often or viciously as they want, without repurcussion, ie, they won't get the 9week ban that was dished out in the AFL.
There needs to be system where the players can be punished properly. I was saying in the AFL forum that I heard that they were thinking of introducing a system where if a player is cited he will then be banned during either the GAA or AFL season. But don't really know how this will work. The compromise rules are at the end of both seasons, so the players won't be playing again for 4/5 months.
Definately if a player is sin binned someone else shouldn't be allowed to come on. That's a ridiculous rule.

wordcount

Xavi6 wrote: »

Oh I agree fully on the Johnson thing. His forearm smash was shocking, and to be fair in the AFL, a Fremantle player just got a 9 week ban for doing that very thing in a game here two weeks ago so the Aussie authoritives are fully behind stamping out that sort of shit.

Seen that tackle on the telly the other night, absolutly vicious.

wordcount

Its simple really. The Aussies are bigger, fitter, stronger wiser faster meaner, more competitive and most importantly they are all hard men. The Irish are spud fed pot bellied mammies boys. Its a non contest. I dont like saying that but its a fact.

It embarresses me to see irish guys get dragged around like rag dolls, or when an irish guy is getting his head kicked in other irish guys do nothing, or when an irish guy trys to fight back it looks like your little sister trying to take you on.

Irish guys need to harden up, but thats impossible because essentially despite the hype of preperation they are amateurs. It is just impossible to compete against highly professional athletes who train 3 hours in the day in the gym etc.

POssible our best 15 have similar skill levels to them, but at the last test I was surprised how well the aussies adapted to the round ball and how more skillful they were to the irish.

I suspect Another massacre.

wordcount

One Cold Hand wrote: »

The problem is that lads can do this, ie punch someone as often or viciously as they want, without repurcussion, ie, they won't get the 9week ban that was dished out in the AFL.
There needs to be system where the players can be punished properly. I was saying in the AFL forum that I heard that they were thinking of introducing a system where if a player is cited he will then be banned during either the GAA or AFL season. But don't really know how this will work. The compromise rules are at the end of both seasons, so the players won't be playing again for 4/5 months.
Definately if a player is sin binned someone else shouldn't be allowed to come on. That's a ridiculous rule.

Agreed,

If your sent off in game one you should be out for game 2. A yellow card offence out for 15 minutes. Its actually a great ame to watch when played right, any player at any level will take liberties if there is no consequences.

DDC1990

Im going to side with Xavi6 here. The International Rules game is a very skillfull one, you need Fit, Strong, Fast, and good scoring players to win. The thing is, the Aussies (<<< correct spelling btw not ozzies ) hnave players like that in abundace, as Aussie Rules is a pro sport, plenty of demand etc. They also have at least 13 different coaches at their clubs for Kicking, Tackling, Running, Fitness etc. so that stands to them also. Remember Ireland won the first test 2 years ago, so we are doing well to get that close, be happy.
Finally, i have to laugh at the people accusing the Aussies of starting all these incidents. By my recollection, it was the Irish that kicked off most of the fights in Croker the last time round. Galvin was clearly looking for a fight with yer man with the dreadlocks, Aiden O'Mahoney kneed a prone Aussie on the ground, to start off another and Shane Ryan made no attempt to get the ball, but just kicked out at an Aussie... to name but a few incidents. As for GG being knocked out, well that was a routine Aussie Rules tackle, but we Irish are not used to tackles like that. Unlucky really.

elurhs

I was at the second test last time, and I was disappointed at the lack of a team spirit in the Irish. It's not ideal to see scrapping on the field, but the Irish totally wilted in the face of the Aussie physicality. You had players who would have taken similar blows in a club game against the local rivals whinging after the match. Sean Boylan has seen plenty of scraps in his day, the complaining afterward I found a little hypocritical. Yes of course it shouldn't have happened but he came across like a man that never saw a punch thrown on the field in his life!

I hear he's managing again this year. I think we need someone who will foster a togetherness and a team spirit in the squad, concentrate on the skills of the game and what the Irish lads are good at, someone who commands respect, someone who has been disgracefully overlooked up until now. I think we need Micko.

vorbis

wordcount wrote: »

Its simple really. The Aussies are bigger, fitter, stronger wiser faster meaner, more competitive and most importantly they are all hard men. The Irish are spud fed pot bellied mammies boys. Its a non contest. I dont like saying that but its a fact.

It embarresses me to see irish guys get dragged around like rag dolls, or when an irish guy is getting his head kicked in other irish guys do nothing, or when an irish guy trys to fight back it looks like your little sister trying to take you on.

Irish guys need to harden up, but thats impossible because essentially despite the hype of preperation they are amateurs. It is just impossible to compete against highly professional athletes who train 3 hours in the day in the gym etc.

POssible our best 15 have similar skill levels to them, but at the last test I was surprised how well the aussies adapted to the round ball and how more skillful they were to the irish.

I suspect Another massacre.

Complete and utter rubbish.
I remember when we were winning these series that people were saying it was because the Aussies weren't interested :rolleyes:

Hard man doesn't mean cowardly elbows and punches. Neither side is innocent but I have to say the Aussies have been disgraceful at times in the last few tests. They've gone well beyond what would be considered normal "violence" in either code.

Nalced_irl

I think the only way we are gonna be able to compete with them physically is to recruit some players from Mountjoy or Portlaoise Prison I see another hammerring on the cards somehow but hope im wrong. To be honest i dont worry about these games too much, they are usually about as entertaining and enjoyable as open eye surgery!




And id know!

wordcount

vorbis wrote: »

Complete and utter rubbish.
I remember when we were winning these series that people were saying it was because the Aussies weren't interested :rolleyes:.

A different era.

vorbis wrote: »

Hard man doesn't mean cowardly elbows and punches.

Aggreed but The Irish were as responcible for that kind of stuff as the Aussies.

I am also talking about physicallity, the Aussies are big athletic guys and a lot of the Irish simply cant match them in that respect.

[/quote]Neither side is innocent but I have to say the Aussies have been disgraceful at times in the last few tests. They've gone well beyond what would be considered normal "violence" in either code.[/quote]

They are no more as violent as the Irish guys, the differece is when an aussie is down he gets back up, whe a irish guy goes down he stays down.

I was in croke park at the last test and I was sickened as an Irish man to witness my fellow country men getting bullied ad battered physically; and to make matters worse they were also completly and utterely outplayed.

We can go out there and put up a fight this time but we have got to go out with the right mix of physicallity and skills, the last team just did not have that.

wordcount

Nalced_irl wrote: »

I think the only way we are gonna be able to compete with them physically is to recruit some players from Mountjoy or Portlaoise Prison I see another hammerring on the cards somehow but hope im wrong. To be honest i dont worry about these games too much, they are usually about as entertaining and enjoyable as open eye surgery!

And id know!

Aggreed, except I think its actually a pretty enjoyable game, you get to see the best irish gaelic football talent pit their wits against professionals

Tristram

Australians were impressive last time out in terms of how well they controlled and used the football. Didn't seem to me as though they had much difficulty adapting from the oval ball. Ireland on the other hand seemed to lack any effective strategy and were careless with possession. The frollicking was frustrating and unnecessary but the result would have been the same in my opinion.

Unless the rules have been changed and they have found officials who will enforce them consistently I would be fearful of more messing about. Does anyone know if the AFL/GAA have issued any statement that discusses what has happened between the abandonment of the series and now that has occassioned its resurrection?

edit: just found this http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20080223131834432

edit II: 15. A Team in possession of the ball shall not be permitted to make more than 4 consecutive hand passes before the ball is played away by foot would see Fermanagh out of the Championship

K-9

Tristram wrote: »

edit II: 15. A Team in possession of the ball shall not be permitted to make more than 4 consecutive hand passes before the ball is played away by foot would see Fermanagh out of the Championship

Interstingly, Galway in 98 had very few foot passes to the forwards, the Tribune did a piece on this. The foot passes probably stood out because it was KILDARE! Yet, they where long ball stuff!

Tyrone in the first 20 minutes last weekend against Westmeath, probably had more than Galway in the 98 final!

Boca

The problem is that Gaelic football has changed over the last 10 years or so away from a catch-and-kick game to a hand-passing/running game.

This has had two impacts
1. the decline in the core-skill levels (catching and kicking)
2. less physical contact in the game

Referees and administrators have contributed to this, there are far too many soft frees awarded and the recent case where Collie Moran was initially suspended (for a mis-timed shoulder) was an example of this heavy-handed approach. Thankfully, common-sense prevailed on that occassion.

Certain players don't help this either be playing for frees, but that's another story.

It's easy to say spout the usual rubbish about the Australian's being thugs but even if that was the case it ignores the fact that they catch and kick the football better than the Irish lads.

So, as long as Gaelic keeps on it's current path I think the Aussies difference in the levels of the two teams will widen

wordcount

Boca wrote: »

The problem is that Gaelic football has changed over the last 10 years or so away from a catch-and-kick game to a hand-passing/running game.

This has had two impacts
1. the decline in the core-skill levels (catching and kicking)
2. less physical contact in the game

Referees and administrators have contributed to this, there are far too many soft frees awarded and the recent case where Collie Moran was initially suspended (for a mis-timed shoulder) was an example of this heavy-handed approach. Thankfully, common-sense prevailed on that occassion.

Certain players don't help this either be playing for frees, but that's another story.

It's easy to say spout the usual rubbish about the Australian's being thugs but even if that was the case it ignores the fact that they catch and kick the football better than the Irish lads.

So, as long as Gaelic keeps on it's current path I think the Aussies difference in the levels of the two teams will widen

A very good analysis.

Geg124

Boca wrote: »

The problem is that Gaelic football has changed over the last 10 years or so away from a catch-and-kick game to a hand-passing/running game.

This has had two impacts
1. the decline in the core-skill levels (catching and kicking)
2. less physical contact in the game

Referees and administrators have contributed to this, there are far too many soft frees awarded and the recent case where Collie Moran was initially suspended (for a mis-timed shoulder) was an example of this heavy-handed approach. Thankfully, common-sense prevailed on that occassion.

Certain players don't help this either be playing for frees, but that's another story.

It's easy to say spout the usual rubbish about the Australian's being thugs but even if that was the case it ignores the fact that they catch and kick the football better than the Irish lads.

So, as long as Gaelic keeps on it's current path I think the Aussies difference in the levels of the two teams will widen

I have too agree with what is said here. Theres alot of very soft frees been giving away these days and the referees are to blame i think. Any sort of little push or anything tot hat results in a free. it really ruins the games as far as im concerned. they never get flowing.

As for the Australians getting stuck in alot more. The way Gaelic Football is played today does not help the Irish Team but i think it also plays on their mind that because they are an amateur organisation they do no have the full insurance which the Australians have to cover them should anything happen. this surely plays a part in the irish players head as they play the game.

Orizio

Boca wrote: »

The problem is that Gaelic football has changed over the last 10 years or so away from a catch-and-kick game to a hand-passing/running game.

This has had two impacts
1. the decline in the core-skill levels (catching and kicking)
2. less physical contact in the game

Referees and administrators have contributed to this, there are far too many soft frees awarded and the recent case where Collie Moran was initially suspended (for a mis-timed shoulder) was an example of this heavy-handed approach. Thankfully, common-sense prevailed on that occassion.

Certain players don't help this either be playing for frees, but that's another story.

It's easy to say spout the usual rubbish about the Australian's being thugs but even if that was the case it ignores the fact that they catch and kick the football better than the Irish lads.

So, as long as Gaelic keeps on it's current path I think the Aussies difference in the levels of the two teams will widen

Spot on, although Aussie Rules itself seems to contain more and more short hand passing.

Tristram

Orizio wrote: »

Spot on, although Aussie Rules itself seems to contain more and more short hand passing.

Yup, if you listen to AFK commentators/analysts they spend almost as much time lamenting the decline of catch and kick style football as our lads do.

MisterAnarchy

The bottom line is that the standard of Gaelic football at the moment is extremely poor.
The skill is being taken out of the game ,some teams are more handball teams than football and on a big pitch that policy will be severly punished.