The pro-Palestinr stand on Shop Street

branie

Does anyone who suppoorts Israel ever tackle the people who run the stand?

Mike...

Why should they?????
Do you attack people who disagree with you on the street?

branie

No, what I meant by tackle was that I just wondered if people debated with them.

Mike...

I wouldn't if I was in that position,
In all honesty why get into a debate on the street?
It's not a controlled environment and some pisshead could decide to start some trouble

TheInvisibleFie

*mono* wrote: »

I wouldn't if I was in that position,
In all honesty why get into a debate on the street?
It's not a controlled environment and some pisshead could decide to start some trouble

Because then you can walk away if someone is acting the eejit. Kind of like the internet.

po0k

branie wrote: »

No, what I meant by tackle was that I just wondered if people debated with them.

Why don't you?

ronnie3585

*mono* wrote: »

Why should they?????
Do you attack people who disagree with you on the street?

Ah, a small thing called freedom of speech?

Why should we not be allowed to challenge these jobless wonders when they can set up stall in the middle of the busiest street in Galway waving their flags and spouting their vitriolic propaganda.

Mayo Exile

vitriolic propaganda.

An israel supporter that the OP was looking for!!

BlaasForRafa

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Ah, a small thing called freedom of speech?

Why should we not be allowed to challenge these jobless wonders when they can set up stall in the middle of the busiest street in Galway waving their flags and spouting their vitriolic propaganda.

who cares what those socialist workers party types think in any case, they just jump on any bandwagon they can find. I guess the fact that Israel has been incessantly attacked by its neighbours for 60 years dosen't really register with them.

Mayo Exile

Israel has been incessantly attacked by its neighbours for 60 years dosen't really register with them.

Er, um, whats Israel been doing since June 1967???

BlaasForRafa

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Er, um, whats Israel been doing since June 1967???

The Six day war was a war for the survival of the jewish state. I imagine that a people that survived the holocaust take such things pretty seriously.

Then there was the Yom Kippur war which I guess you must have forgotten about. Regular shelling by syrian forces from the golan heights over the years, rocket attacks and suicide bomings by hezbollah and hamas for years, what is a state to do, let outside forces try to destroy it?

Mayo Exile

Six day war and yom kippur war

1967 war might be seen as a war of survival but what it actually did was leave israel holding 100% of Palestine. Have you ever seen the original 1947 UN plan for Palestine? Both Jews and Arabs were to have equal land areas.

1973 war. Fair enough. The Arabs attacked first and israel eventually won though huge american arms shipments helped too.

hezbollah

Appeared due to Israel's completely illegal occupation of Lebanon from 1982 to 2000. Resistance to an occupier is a logical thing isn't it?

Hamas

Hamas appeared because of the circumstances of the situation in the West Bank. Corruption amongst the Fatah regime already in place aided their growth. Actually elected by the people there to form a government! Continued to be labelled "terrorists" by the US and Israelis because they didn't "like" the result!

rocket attacks and suicide bomings

No democratic solution offered. Plus the grinding poverty in the occupied West Bank will drive people to extremism as defined from a Western point of view. History has loads of example of poverty breeding extremism.

po0k

Mayo Exile wrote: »

1973 war. Fair enough. The Arabs attacked first and israel eventually won though huge american arms shipments helped too.

[strike]In the lead-up, Egypt ammassed troops and tanks at the border.
Israel bombed Egyptian planes on the ground. Was accepted as being justifiable in the west because Israel saw war with Egypt as being inevitable, and it was seen as a lawful anticipatory use of force in self-defence.[/strike] whoops, wrong war
After the ceasefire, Israeli forces kept advancing into Egyptian and Syrian territory, and only stopped once the US tapped them on the shoulder.

"That's my field" etc.

Also, Gulf of Tonkin. Lolz.

Wompa1

Mayo Exile wrote: »

History has loads of example of poverty breeding extremism.

Tell me about it!, I was once so poor I couldn't afford toilet paper so I wiped my ass with Doc Leafs instead. Who'd a thought this thread would of gone in this direction eh?

Mayo Exile

Apologies to the OP, this is definitely going way off the intended topic! Probably should be going on in the Soc>Politics forum! Some pro/anti Israeli jousts going on over there at the moment.

Link: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99

Hmmm! Western Civilisation would go to war too if it found out there was no toilet paper anymore!

Anyway, how long has this palestinian stand been there?

tristanc

This convo is turning into a monthly event on this board. Maybe we should make it a sticky

kayos

Only reason I would tackle any of these groups that set-up a stall on shop street on a saturday is the simple fact they take up half the width of the street for a table with one maybe two people standing at it!

Fair enough with the standing there handing out flyers, talking to people that want to listen etc. But do they have to narrow down an already busy street with a huge table and keeping the thing out from the wall enough to be too much without enough space to walk behind it? Do they know they are taking land that is not theirs and using it for their purposes? This goes for those sitting down selling face painting, pieces of colored string as well as the political types.

Saturday afternoon walking down shop st is like rush hour on the M50!

As for Israel Vs Palastine. The UK Vs Ireland tbh.

West Bank/Gazza Strip = To hell or to Connaught
Israel claim a god given right to the place = UK claimed Ireland and seeing as their King was the head of the church then you could nearly say they had a god given right to.
Israel prevent the practice of the natives religion = Uk imposed penal laws and outlawed mass.

Religion is all well and good but when you get fanatical, extremists (commonly heard in reference to the bad guys but easily applies to the good guys too!) it all goes to pot.

toiletduck

po0k wrote: »

Also, Gulf of Tonkin. Lolz.

What's that got to with Israel and/or crusties on Shop Street??

toiletduck

Oh I gettit. Never mind.

brianthebard

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Ah, a small thing called freedom of speech?

Can you show me that in the constitution please?

kayos wrote: »

West Bank/Gazza Strip = To hell or to Connaught
Israel claim a god given right to the place = UK claimed Ireland and seeing as their King was the head of the church then you could nearly say they had a god given right to.
Israel prevent the practice of the natives religion = Uk imposed penal laws and outlawed mass.

[history nerd] Actually long before Henry VIII became king and head of the church the first and only english pope had decreed Ireland was available to the english. So they did have a "god given right", as much as you can have anyways.[/history nerd]

Blisterman

Why are they protesting something that's happenening in the middle east, in Galway City of all places?

Robbo

Blisterman wrote: »

Why are they protesting something that's happenening in the middle east, in Galway City of all places?

Tilting at windmills.

KBarry

kayos wrote: »

Israel prevent the practice of the natives religion = Uk imposed penal laws and outlawed mass.

Plenty of mosques and churches last time I was there.

Bass Cadet

Blisterman wrote: »

Why are they protesting something that's happenening in the middle east, in Galway City of all places?

I suppose, we did f@ck all about the situation in the North of Ireland, might aswell stick our heads in the sand regarding every human rights abuse throughout the rest of the world too. Afterall, Galway is the home of the affable...I include myself in that statement too

DRakE

Could i put up an anti palestine stand on shop street?

or a "dublin is for ****ers" stand?

toiletduck

DRakE wrote: »

Could i put up an anti palestine stand on shop street?

Get a girl at the stand giving out stamps for free into Cuba and you're onto a winner.

Steyr

DRakE wrote: »

Could i put up an anti palestine stand on shop street?

PLEASE DO, by now everybody should know they are also the GAAW, nothing you ever do will please those freeloaders, i once passed by them outside Lynch's Castle and tried to say what about Israel etc and how they are supporting suicied bombers but needless to say i didnt get a word in.

Does anybody else get baffled by them being Antiwar yet the majority of them wear Combats?? WTF?

biko

DRakE wrote: »

or a "dublin is for ****ers" stand?

Do it during the Races "Jackeens go home"

Playboy

I think its great that they are there. Fair play to ppl who give up their free time to try educate joe soap who has been brainwashed by the western media into thinking that Israel is a victim.

Israel from its very conception as a modern reality in the minds of the early Zionists has been an extremely aggressive and unjust state that exploited and robbed the poor ppl that lived in the area called Palestine. The Gaza strip is the worlds largest prison where people live in horrendous conditions and Israel is aggressively and illegally settling large areas of the west bank. From day 1 the Palestinian ppl have been fighting for their homes, lives and futures. Their 'terrorism' is not unlike the terrorism that went on in this country in the early 1900's .. except the conditions faced by the Palestinians are much worse.

I really cant get my head around Israeli apologists on this board .. I mean the facts of the conflict are quite clear .. the numbers of refugees .. the numbers killed .. the land grabs and illegal settlements .. Zionism as an ideolgy. How can anybody when presented with an objective account still side with Israel unless they are morally dsyfunctional to an extent.

Just pick up one of Chomsky's or Finkelsteins books .. these are Jews. Chomsky has been to Israel many times and even considered living there earlier in his life. These men also suffer the fate of anyone who disagrees with the Israeli propoganda machine ... their names tarnished and dragged through the mud by their own ppl. You can find many human rights watchdogs inside Israel (run by Israelis) who try and bring attention to the horrible crimes that the Israelis commit on nearly a daily basis.

So if you see these ppl on the street why dont you stop and listen to them first before you 'tackle' or attack them. Or how about you think for a sec and ask yourself why in the world would these ppl be giving up their free time unless the felt passionately about what they were doing. What other reason do they have for being there unless they were crazed anti-semitic loons .. which I highly doubt.

Steyr

Israel is a victim. They control the water/power going into Palestine yet they still fire rockets into Israel, Israel should and rightly so retaliate against these attacks, they have tried diplomacy yet the extremeists/terrorists ( Hamas who are viewed outside of Israel as terrorists too ) continue to break the ceasefires.

ronnie3585

brianthebard wrote: »

Can you show me that in the constitution please?

Article 40.6.1 The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

i. The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.


It's amazing what you can learn by actually reading the document you are referring to.

Playboy

Steyr wrote: »

Israel is a victim. They control the water/power going into Palestine yet they still fire rockets into Israel, Israel should and rightly so retaliate against these attacks, they have tried diplomacy yet the extremeists/terrorists ( Hamas who are viewed outside of Israel as terrorists too ) continue to break the ceasefires.

Really m8 .. do you have any clue at all what you are talking about? Read the history or any book by Chomsky instead of repeating the crap you hear on sky news. Palestine doesnt control anything .. Ceasfires are constantly sabotaged by Israel. Israel (the current Israeli and previous Israeli governements that is) dont want peace. To go back to 1967 borders would be disastrous for them and their expansion plans and its not going to happen ever. They are wearing the Palestinians down slowly and grabbing more land all time while painting the palestinians as the aggressors. Hamas and its kind while extreme and capable of horrific acts .. are a natural reaction to what Israel and the US are doing in their country.

Your opinion on the situation out there is exactly the same imo as 90% of people in the general public .. and is exactly why the people are standing on shop street. What you think you know about Israel and Palestine is a pack of lies fed to you a bullsh*t media.

DRakE

Playboy wrote: »

Really m8 .. do you have any clue at all what you are talking about? Read the history or any book by Chomsky instead of repeating the crap you hear on sky news. Palestine doesnt control anything .. Ceasfires are constantly sabotaged by Israel. Israel (the current Israeli and previous Israeli governements that is) dont want peace. To go back to 1967 borders would be disastrous for them and their expansion plans and its not going to happen ever. They are wearing the Palestinians down slowly and grabbing more land all time while painting the palestinians as the aggressors. Hamas and its kind while extreme and capable of horrific acts .. are a natural reaction to what Israel and the US are doing in their country.

Your opinion on the situation out there is exactly the same imo as 90% of people in the general public .. and is exactly why the people are standing on shop street. What you think you know about Israel and Palestine is a pack of lies fed to you a bullsh*t media.

This reminded me of the south park quote

Darryl Weathers: Chet, you are a f***ing retard, you know that? Even if global warming were real, which all proven scientific data shows it isn't, it would take millions of years for a climate shift to happen! You think an ice age can just happen all of a sudden-like?
Chet: Well, I was just tryin' to be helpful.
Darryl Weathers: Well help yourself to a f***in' science book, 'cause you're talking' like a f***in' retard! Now, come on people, we've got to think! Damnit, they took our jobs!

ronnie3585

Took our jaaaabs!!!

Steyr

Playboy wrote: »

Hamas and its kind while extreme and capable of horrific acts .. are a natural reaction to what Israel and the US are doing in their country.

They are Terrorists.

Playboy wrote: »

and is exactly why the people are standing on shop street. .

And prey tell what are the people of Galway supposed to do?

po0k

Steyr wrote: »

And prey tell what are the people of Galway supposed to do?

Boycot. Don't buy Israeli or US [more difficult] produce.
Check where the spuds in the shop come from.

Israel has a siege mentality. It is a highly militarised government. They're caught between a rock and the Mediterranean.

When one side razes villages with armoured bulldozers, builds IronCurtain-esque enclosing walls, guardtowers and machinegun nests which it patrols with tanks; and the other has suicide bombers, antiquated rockets (hardly nuclear ICBMs) and kids throwing rocks, who do you think is abusing their power?

Referring to your combats statement, wtf? "Yes, obviously these people are hypocrites, wearing strong workpants with handy sidepockets while handing out fliers" because we all remember the Pants Massacre of Ahascragh in 1978 where over 2000 tracksuit bottoms were brutally ripped to shreds.

ARGINITE

In reply to all that: Dey Turk errr jerrrbs!

Playboy

DRakE wrote: »

This reminded me of the south park quote

I'm not sure In understand why you are reminded of that quote and why you feel the need to post it? Are comparing what I'm saying with someone who denies global warming is happening or do you think I'm calling Steyr a retard?

Steyr

Or are you just saying it's ok to support Terrorism?

Playboy

Steyr wrote: »

They are Terrorists.

You sound like someone from the Bush administration! What are terrorists? Who decides who is one and who isnt. Hamas are a democratically elected group and they believe they are fighting a war against an invading force who are ethnicly cleansing their people.

Steyr wrote: »

And prey tell what are the people of Galway supposed to do?

Its not that anyone expects you to do anything per se but the more people that are educated the better because it wil bring an enormous amount of public pressure on Israel and the US to find a fair and peaceful solution which they arent trying to do right now. If you know the truth you can tell the other people and it will spread in and out of ireland.

If you dont believe me Steyr then just have a look at how many UN Security Council resolutions there were about Israel .. most of which were veteod by the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Playboy

Steyr wrote: »

Or are you just saying it's ok to support Terrorism?

Luckily I can think for myself and I dont have to think of world politics in terms of good and evil and 'Wars against Terror'. Do you not see any paralells with your own country and the UK in the past?

cornbb

Steyr wrote: »

Or are you just saying it's ok to support Terrorism?

Its very easy to throw the word Terrorism around. One man's Terrorist is another man's besieged and downtrodden freedom fighter. Collective punishment and consistent human rights abuses could be called state-sponsored terrorism.

Israelis have been through a tough few millennia, no doubt about it, but their actions make it difficult to have a lot of sympathy for them. They have a right to defend themselves but some of the tactics they use are horrific, as well as the general mentality the state seems to have. Israel, with their not-so-secret ICBM stockpile, extremist tendencies and massive military capabilities, strike me as being at least as big a "destabilising force" in the region as Iran, Syria or any of the others.

If Israel would stop turning the screw on the Palestinians maybe they would find themselves coming under attack less frequently. Hamas certainly need to clean up their act too. But the behaviour of the Israeli government/military is a disgrace.

Steyr

Im aware of the UN Security Council resolutions against Israel but Hamas are Terrorists that are notorious for their suicide bombings on Israeli Security forces and Civillians. Sure they do run extensive social programs etc but they aint exactly trying to broker peace by calling for the total destruction of Israel. Hamas describes its conflict with Israel as political and not religious or antisemitic yet its founding charter, writings, and many of its public statements show the influence of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

The Hamas charter states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad".

Nice bunch of people, must book a holiday there.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

probably not, you'd be run over by an israeli bulldozer.

po0k

Steyr wrote: »

Hamas describes its conflict with Israel as political and not religious or antisemitic yet its founding charter, writings, and many of its public statements show the influence of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

"show the influence of antisemitic conspiracy theories" - ?
So Hamas take their lead from western conspiracy theories? Hope they check snopes.com

The Hamas charter states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad".

I'm pretty sure Israel has a similar set of policies documenting its methods for dealing with Palestinian 'insurgency'.

Playboy

Steyr wrote: »

Im aware of the UN Security Council resolutions against Israel but Hamas are Terrorists that are notorious for their suicide bombings on Israeli Security forces and Civillians. Sure they do run extensive social programs etc but they aint exactly trying to broker peace by calling for the total destruction of Israel. Hamas describes its conflict with Israel as political and not religious or antisemitic yet its founding charter, writings, and many of its public statements show the influence of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

The Hamas charter states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad".

Nice bunch of people, must book a holiday there.

If Hamas are terrorists then what then hell is IDF and the Israeli government other than a terrorist state who has caused insane amounts of bloodshed by their very presence in the middle east? Do you have any idea how badly treated the Palestinians are? Do you know a Palestian cannot marry a jew in Israel? Israel has aparhteid laws that are as bad as South Africa had in its hey day.

And no one here said they support Hamas and i dont belive the ppl on shop street support Hamas. I'm against the Israeli government and the atrocities they commit in Palestine. I want the Israeli's to return to the 1967 borders which Hamas and the other countries in the middle east would accept. Or why dont we take away the borders and have a democratic election in the region? Israel calls itself a democracy but it is nothing of the sort .. they clear out the majority of the population and then deny them return so they can have a majority and control the area.

Steyr why dont you do a bit of reading in all honesty .. the facts are there in the histroy in black and white.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Have you ever seen the original 1947 UN plan for Palestine? Both Jews and Arabs were to have equal land areas.

Your forgetting to ad that it was the Palestinians who rejected this plan.

brianthebard

Because they were already living in Palestine and didn't see why they had to give up half their land to a group of European and American settlers?

balu

Eye-Opener for you guys:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565&ei=mge4SMb1GozQ2ALJ_pnyDA&q=peace+propaganda