keeping the tuesday nights going

homerjay2005

so, we have 2 tuesdays left. we may, depending on results in the cup, have to play a game or 2 during the week. however, it looks like (not sure of exact dates)that we will have 3 or 4 tuesday nights free to with nothing to do.

we have tried time and time again to organise training, largely at the weekends. it has very rarely worked. so how about this - instead of dropping the Tuesday nights, how about we keep it going as normal and we rent out one of the pitches. I am away for he next 2 weeks, but I will help out to organise this as much as possible. i know Jules has hired the pitches before (i think) so he knows the set up too. we could also arrange friendlies too. even if we just got 11 players together to play us like daves matess (i could manage 11 for definate), this would benifit. theres surely also plenty of teams looking for friendlies. I think it makes sense. thoughts please?

pvt.joker

keep them up. Its not like we're all at peak fitness or anything, so if we let up on them, then we'll be starting the new season off at a slow pace. We need to hit the ground running this time.
Even if it's just 5 a side pitches we rent.

LeixlipRed

Training needs to be properly organised though. We can't just turn up and do 6 random drills and then a match. My suggestion is fitness work, tactical stuff then a two touch game, etc. Don't bother doing drills. Somewhere on the FA site is a recommended sprint programme for building stamina for football. It's a simple exercise. 5 mins jog. Stretch. Then 5 sprints of the pitch length with 30 secs break in between. Then 2 and a half mins recovery (kicking a ball about or something). Then repeat. Simple enough.

_blank_

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Training needs to be properly organised though. We can't just turn up and do 6 random drills and then a match. My suggestion is fitness work, tactical stuff then a two touch game, etc. Don't bother doing drills. Somewhere on the FA site is a recommended sprint programme for building stamina for football. It's a simple exercise. 5 mins jog. Stretch. Then 5 sprints of the pitch length with 30 secs break in between. Then 2 and a half mins recovery (kicking a ball about or something). Then repeat. Simple enough.

Will you take the training?

Like, take on the job of organising it, and running it?

I have no coaching badges, you know.

I'm not asking to be a smartarse, but asking because you seem to know what you are on about.

homerjay2005

ill put something together on the fitness side if needed, got a mate whos lethal at it, im sure he could give us all a few tips.

defo fitness and some light ballwork is needed and ud be surprised what 4 or 5 hours would do for us in the long run. ill try organise a friendly for a tuesday in a few weeks time.

how much are these pitches lads?

this will also be a test of dedication of some of the squad.

LeixlipRed

I've no problem taking that part of the training. Sure if I'm there to explain it once anyone can do it. I don't have any coaching badges either That drill is simple enough and if the FA says it works it must And I wasn't criticising yourself Des. Don't think any of us has any coaching experience. I coached kids, that's about it.

As for the tactical side of it, we'll be into dodgier territory there. As in people will disagree on what the best approaches are to certain situations. But anyway, bridge to cross and all that.

LeixlipRed

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ill put something together on the fitness side if needed, got a mate whos lethal at it, im sure he could give us all a few tips.

.

Makes sure it's stamina work though. I can jog around a pitch for 2 hours without breaking a sweat as I'm sure a lot of people could.

homerjay2005

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Makes sure it's stamina work though. I can jog around a pitch for 2 hours without breaking a sweat as I'm sure a lot of people could.

grand by me......whos bringing the sick bucket?!:D ill do up something and ill show it to des and see what he thinks first. ill also see what i can do about a friendly. i can guarantee one with work but would have to start now later than 7.00 as alot lads would be finished at 6.00 and wouldnt like to be hanging around. ill see what i can do anyway, have 3 teams in mind, i will mail them now anyway.

Idu

If we were going to go down the training route then we would need to invest in more footballs in my opinion. If you're only going to do one night then you need short sharp exercises involving the ball to get players up to match sharpness. Match fitness will need more time so rather than waste time on laps or repeated running we should focus on getting two things done at once.

I'd be happy to run a few drills of this variety if we do get this up and running which I think we should because it's a good way to keep the fitness going and improving in some cases and it'll also show how committed any new players are going to be. If someone isn't showing up for training on a tuesday it's probably not the greatest sign they're gonna be around when the matches start

homerjay2005

we have to be "fit" before being "match fit" Ian! a player can have all the sharpness and touch he wants, but if he is on his last legs after 30 minutes, they he is no good to the team....you not agree?

if we are doing training, i would suggest half pure fitness and then half ball. friendlies should take care of the match fit part. one idea would be to rent the pitch for 2 hours, the first hour we train, the second hour would be a friendly.

emc2

Yes we should defo keep it going.

Savman

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if we are doing training, i would suggest half pure fitness and then half ball. friendlies should take care of the match fit part. one idea would be to rent the pitch for 2 hours, the first hour we train, the second hour would be a friendly.

Great idea, book the pitch, then all there is to worry about is getting more than 6 lads showing up. I think some people have a very short memory, as in the reason the training sessions were knocked on the head last time round, numbers were awful. There's nothing to honestly suggest this time will be any different, in fact probably worse because we have bigger problems with general match attendance now than we did back then.

I think a realistic, as opposed to idealistic, approach is needed.

LeixlipRed

If we're training we need to do it for zero cost. You don't need an astro pitch to train. And as Sav said, we haven't exactly had great turnouts for stuff like this in the past.

homerjay2005

well if it does not work then we know where the problem is and people will have no excuses 3 or 4 weeks in when we in the same same suituation again. i may be wrong though, but anytime we have had issues, its been at weekends? we should be getting 13 or 14 down at least every tuesday night.

_blank_

Lads, just so you know.

I will be having no hand, act or part in organising training. I'll certainly attend if numbers warrant it, but I'm not getting involved in giving up my time, again, for a farce.

I will not be moved on this.

And, I'm kind of feeling the same about friendlies tbh, out numbers for friendlies have left a lot to be desired too.

Savman

Des wrote: »

Lads, just so you know.

I will be having no hand, act or part in organising training. I'll certainly attend if numbers warrant it, but I'm not getting involved in giving up my time, again, for a farce.

I will not be moved on this.

And, I'm kind of feeling the same about friendlies tbh, out numbers for friendlies have left a lot to be desired too.

That's a bizarre managerial stance?

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

That's a bizarre managerial stance?

It's a kick in the balls giving up my time trying to orgainse training for this team, taking time out to head somewhere an hour away from where I live, only for six lads and a dog to arrive out.

There's only so many kicks in the balls I can take tbh.

The straw that broke my back was that day when I had to ring you three times while you were en route "it's off", "it's on again", "it's off" all because lads hadn't committed to being there.

other times lads said they'd be there, and didn't bother their holes because

a. they weren't arsed, but said they were, and just didn't show up

b. were too hungover to even answer the phone when I was trying to find out where they were

c. think they are too good to train with us, and expect to play every week, but then I get stick for not picking "my strongest team"

I have NO ISSUE with lads who

a. play other football on the day we allocate for training

b. have family committments

c. have work committments

But, you know, it's the same as the Champions League nights in the Winter League, and early in the summer league.

Some lads ARE willing to come out and play, others are so committed to their TV Team that they wouldn't dream of giving up a night in front of the telly to play an ACTUAL game of ball.

Also, I'm getting fairly pisse doff with people questioning my decisions and tactics DURING the game.

if people want to take over the running of the team, I have no issue letting them, but it's another kick in the balls when lads don't listen to what I say on match nights.

I am considering my position with the team as it is, the payment of fees this close season will determine whether I keep it up or not.

Idu

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we have to be "fit" before being "match fit" Ian! a player can have all the sharpness and touch he wants, but if he is on his last legs after 30 minutes, they he is no good to the team....you not agree?

if we are doing training, i would suggest half pure fitness and then half ball. friendlies should take care of the match fit part. one idea would be to rent the pitch for 2 hours, the first hour we train, the second hour would be a friendly.

Yeah I totally agree. The drills I'm talking about will help with overall fitness. you aren't going to get people fit running around a pitch for an hour. Those days are gone. To be fit for football you need to be able to do short sharp bursts of running with limited recovery. You involve the ball to keep the mind sharp when you're doing it.

A mate of mine is a really good long distance runner but if he tried to play a game of football he wouldnt last the pace. Different strokes and all that

pvt.joker

Savman wrote: »

That's a bizarre managerial stance?

I think what he's saying is that he won't go down the route that was happening a few seasons ago, with training organised for the Phoeno of a Sat, and 2 or 3 lads showing up. It was farcical, as was the numbers(of our team) who showed up for the friendly with your team Sav.

This has always been a thorny issue, due to the collapse of previous attempts at training.
I personally feel if its on during the week, lads will be more willing to attend, although personally id train on either weekend or weekday.
Im sure if we were regurarly getting 75-80% of our team for training sessions, that Des would get involved.
I'd feel the same way if I was him tbh.

How does your own team manage get so many down to training Sav? Any tips?

homerjay2005

well im willing to organise 1 training session and see how it goes and martin is willing to help out too, as im sure jules is. if it works, then we will do it again the following week, if not, we call it off and then we just turn up on the day a few weeks later, as we have been doing, is that fair enough?

i know sav that tuesdays doesnt suit you and all and numbers have been low so thats fine, but if we cannot get 15 or so out for an hour or 2 on a mon/tues night now, how is it going to be when we do have these said cl nights and all that in a few weeks time.

as i said lads, this is a test of commitment of people in the squad. simple as that. if your in for the season, then surely ur willing to get yourself fitter/sharper etc. it also gives des a chance to pick his best squad and give lads a chance to impress and get a chance in the squad.

and lads, not having a go here, but i dont think (bar maybe 3 or 4 players), that anybody can say that they are fully fit in this team. as martin said, stamina...what is stamina? being able to burst your Bolli* in the last minute to get back on the counter to make a last ditch tackle or get on the end of a ball when the oppositon is too tired to do it.

Savman

Fair enough Des, I was advocating but you've made your position clear as day. At least it's based on real world stuff and not "hey yeah let's get training going and do some drills". If only it was that easy. There's no point in carrying on if it's wrecking your head, personally I'm reaching the point where I'll be faced with a similar decision. I think this season has taken it's toll on everybody.

pvt.joker wrote: »

How does your own team manage get so many down to training Sav? Any tips?

Repetition. Then friends of friends of friends of friends. Anything to make up numbers, in the winter some weeks it's touch and go, we hope/expect it to be different this year though.
But this scenario is different, the manager basically saying he wants no part in organising any training sessions. No disrespect to the lads, some good ideas knocking about but with no desire on a managerial level there is no incentive whatsoever. And out of all the suggestions so far, not one has addressed the issue of poor turnout, so until that's sorted out we're just going round in self defeating circles tbh.

LeixlipRed

I think this is our last season to really get something serious going here. Another season of pissing about mid table is not on for me. You're either dedicated or not. I want to win the league next season. I know Sav is gonna say that's pie in the sky talk but I'm just not interested in another season of rubbish turnouts, etc.

And Des, there are plenty of people willing to help out with these things. Delegate a bit and see how it goes. It can do no harm.

Savman

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I think this is our last season to really get something serious going here. Another season of pissing about mid table is not on for me.

That's it in a nutshell. We quite clearly dropped down a level from last season. There may also be a Goalkeeping problem going by what Karl has been saying the last few games, I think he's considering calling it a day.

The squad last night compared to the same stage last season was only missing Jules, Larry and Dave. That's hardly excuse enough to be sitting fourth from bottom with 2 games remaining especially bearing in mind we've had additions to the squad too.

Also, without questioning "tactics", I was moved around 4 times last night (up front, Centre Mid, Right Full, Centre Half then back to Centre Mid). And we wonder why we suffer from inconsistency! Just highlighting that we have been all over the gaff, I know we said we'd use the games to try different things etc but all the changing round can't help during the game if nobody knows who's playing anywhere, as was the case last night.

Not having a go, just throwing that into the mix.

homerjay2005

the answer - a group of committed players who are willing to put the effort in the close season.


i will do my best to get friendlies, i will do my best to organise training. im working on 2 friendlies right now. but we need to be on the same wavelength about this, not just us on here, but the players that do not post.

FrankGrimes

Sav, Des is totally entitled to take that stance until the necessary commitment is proven to him. He's done more than enough for this team and was always willing to make the extra effort to show up for the training sessions. Others weren't and the sessions were a farce, so he's well within his rights to say that it's up to the squad to organise them and prove that the commitment is there. I think we both know that if Des was to see there being consistent good numbers attending he'd also be showing up. It's up to the squad to make it happen and prove to the manager that it's worth it - he's tried it from the other approach so now he's turning it back on the squad and I think it's a smart move.

I'm concerned to hear his comments though that he feels his tactics are being questioned before or during a game - nobody gets to switch positions during the game without the manager's approval, end of story. It's the captain's job to ensure the manager's instructions are carried out on the pitch and if Kenny's not doing that effectively in my absence a word needs to be had, though I doubt that in fairness.

Glad to hear plenty of lively discussion on here and the other thread, though again it's only really 2 besides the usual suspects joining in. The idea to keep the momentum between seasons by keeping the Tuesday nights going is very good and we should defo do that and then arrange Thursday night training mid-season if possible.

Memories seem to be short though, so we need a bit of realism - the problem has never been what was done at the training sessions, the problem has simply been attendance. Yes, once we had better consistent attendance, we would have done more with them, but the reality is the few that did show up were in no shape to be thrown into very physical sessions, so we were hoping to build them up to it gradually. Every now and then we get a wave of enthusiasm like this one and start thinking of amazing things we can do with the training etc. but it never happens. For 3 seasons now I've been saying we need to get real and start small and build it up from there.

As I said, I've had Eircom League coaches and can give you any number of drills and tactics lessons (I'd say there'd there would be good feedback from those who attended on those sessions we had before the season before last or thereabouts) ranging from simple to as complex as you like, and if the surgery works I could probably take the group through some of the old boxing drills for the fitness too - nothing yields quicker results. But that's not the point - I'm all for the ethos of reach for the stars and you'll get off the ground, but it hasn't been working for us - we need to get real and simply get enough bodies down for a session, do a few laps, some sprints, play a few balls around, practice throw-ins and then setup a tight kickabout. That's not a perfect session but once lads get into it they'll be more inclined to come back and stick around for the intense sessions we progress to after that.

There should be nothing stopping us doing that in the off-season, but mid-season will inevitably be a problem getting lads down, getting a free place to play etc. So, for I dunno, the 3rd or 4th season in a row, I suggest we simply block book a 5-a-side astro pitch and concentrate on getting at least 10 bodies down to do a warmup and game with some sprints thrown in. When it's clear we're ready to move on from that, do it then.

I appreciate the enthusiasm and that lads are willing to volunteer to get involved but that and stating things like we need a bunch of committed players won't simply make it happen, we need to start small and establish the mentality where there's a set time you're expected to show up each week and can plan for vs. the uncertainty that leads to poor attendance, lads will get into the habit of showing up and as we progress the sessions will get more challenging.

If you build it, they will come

homerjay2005

all good points again Jules. I think we all know whats needed here. we have 3 weeks to get this sorted. im missing next week and the week after with work, so can one of you take the training lead at the games and get the idea out there that we get together for some work and friendlies during the Tuesdays that we have no games. im confident of at least one friendly anyway, but not confirmed.

i think everybody owes it to des and the team to give this one go for 4-5 weeks. if it doesnt work, then at least we tried and we wont have any excuses.

emc2

I am all for training I think it's badly needed. At the minute we are a 40 minute team at best.
As I recall we had a good turn out for the kick about in DCU on thursday night (not sure if it was last season or the one before).
I am willing to help out in any way I can.

homerjay2005

ok, i pretty much have a freindly lined up for either the 12th or the 19th...dates to be confirmed for definate, but these can be agreed to by all our team and of course, the opposition. game to be played on either grass or astro, but lets go for the cheaper option i suppose and grass. pitch would be beside where we played on tuesday, so this would account as a normal tuesday night....


are we going for it?

Idu

we are an astro team - the game should be played on astro

pvt.joker

Full size Astro pitches cost an arm and a leg to rent, about 150 euro an hour.
Football is football, a grass pitch will do the job.

homerjay2005

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

we are an astro team - the game should be played on astro

ideally yes and if i get the second friendly, then yes, it will be on astro. however, as shay has pointed out there is a cost factor too!!

however, the key thing here is that the opposition are grass teams (as are most friendlies to be fair) so we need to cater for their needs too.

LeixlipRed

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ok, i pretty much have a freindly lined up for either the 12th or the 19th...dates to be confirmed for definate, but these can be agreed to by all our team and of course, the opposition. game to be played on either grass or astro, but lets go for the cheaper option i suppose and grass. pitch would be beside where we played on tuesday, so this would account as a normal tuesday night....


are we going for it?

12th for me. Can't play on 19th as my thesis is due in the next day.

Idu

depends on what you're using the games for. If it's to test out new players then it should be on astro but if it's just to keep us going over the few weeks then it doesnt matter.

I see your point about the cost though although with two squads of 15 playing its only something like a fiver a man.

Also its easier for a grass team to change to playing astro than the other way around, IMO

LeixlipRed

Yeh, I reackon we're better off on astro tbh. Play on a rubbish grass pitch and someone new might not be able to show their footballing ability as much.

FrankGrimes

I think we're all agreed that training and playing friendlies on astro is better than playing on grass. But here's the thing - playing on grass is better than not playing at all.

We've always been striving for the perfect setup for these training and friendly sessions and it's never come off - we need to get these going by hook or by crook and then build on it from there.

There were definitely at least a couple of lads last time round that paying the fiver wasn't suiting them, so if that's going to lose us a few players, it'd be better to go with grass and get the better turnout.

homerjay2005

so ideally, if possible, train on grass and if we have a friendlies and look like we may get up to 30 players between both sides, then we can go astro...should only cost 3-4 quid each..

FrankGrimes

yeh, I'd say you're spot on with that Ed.

thelepo

Well, 8 votes in and it's 100% Yes to keeping Tuesdays going.
I'm all for it, though I'll be off on holidays from the 8th-17th of August, so I may miss a cup game and a friendly.

I'm quite content to play on grass, still good for fitness. Nadal and Federer play clay and grass, no excuses for us. A friendly on the 19th would suit me, but by all means have one on the 12th.

We should be able to get matches and training together without Des and make this somewhat more of a democratic process. How about we do it like this, myself and Martin will organize a training session, Ed and Jules or whoever can organize a match. How does that suit?

Lepo

Tusky

Id love a bit of training. Its exactly what I need.

homerjay2005

that friendly is not possible for tuesday night...they (HBFC) have another game, on the wednesday on grass, so they cant play the 2. however, ill try refix it. they have asked to play only on grass, so thats fair enough, if we want friendlies, we have to make allowances.

we need to chat tonight about what to do this tuesday....maybe just 5 a side for the once of or Ian/Jules, can your team fill in the gap this week?

ill check number tonight.....i can get a game the following week (we will be playing in the cup if we win tonight that night also). des has one organised for the 6th of September against Beechlawn (lost it 3-2 last year,was a great game). that is something to really look forward to, so we need a grass game before that, i suggest we try HBFC again for maybe tues week on grass if we lose tonight.

_blank_

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we need to chat tonight about what to do this tuesday....maybe just 5 a side for the once

We talked on Tuesday, there will be 5-a-side organised for the place in Ringsend.