Satellite Broadband Options

NWM

I am living between Ardnacrusha and Sixmilebridge in Co Clare about 5 miles from Limerick City but in a bowl surrounded by hills. Too far from exchange for DSL to work (had it, took it out again), no wireless, 3G doesn't work, and the National Broadband Scheme map says I'm in an area that won't ever be covered by a non-NBS vendor.

So, I figure I need satellite for a couple of years at least. Most of the links on the broadband.gov.ie site don't work, but here is my research:



Vendor | Type |Speed | Install | Monthly | 2 Year Cost Total
Sky DSL | 1-way | 1Mb| 180 | 25| 1260 (inc 480 for upload)
Sky DSL |1-way | 2Mb | 180 | 35 | 1500 (inc 480 for upload)
Sky DSL |1-way | 4Mb | 180 | 55 | 1980 (inc 480 for upload)
NBB |2-way | 0.5Mb | 100 | 58 | 1492
NBB |2-way | 1Mb | 100 | 68 | 1732
NBB |2-way | 2Mb | 100 | 113 | 2812
Tariam |2-way | 2Mb | 618 | 55 | 1938
SkyOne |2-way | 2Mb | 1911.8| 60 | 3351.8


It really looks like SkyDSL 1-way is best (I know: no games, VOIP, big emails - but that's not too important to me). I could even maybe use O2 3G for upload at 20 euros a month. (I have a landline as I have Sky Multiroom anyway). I added 20 euros a month for upload costs.

NBB is very expensive for the speed.

Comments/suggestions welcome. Any companies out there want to service a group of 20 houses stuck in a land that time forgot?

barnicles

Sky DSL is only a download accelerator. NBB is prob your best option.

NWM

barnicles wrote: »

Sky DSL is only a download accelerator. NBB is prob your best option.

Only a download accelerator. LOL, since I download about 10x more than I upload and all I have right now is dial-up, I would kill for a download accelerator.

So you think it is better to have 512kb 2-way than 2Mb 1-way (equal cost NBB vs SkyDSL)?

Why? As I said, i don't do on-line gaming.

barnicles

What are you going with your connection?

NWM

barnicles wrote: »

What are you going with your connection?

General surfing: forums, ebay, youtube, redtu.. <ahem> I mean Wikipedia, Google News etc.

I used to do a lot of work at home going in through a VPN when I used live in the city. Not sure if I will still do much of that.

barnicles

NBB looks good so

NWM

barnicles wrote: »

NBB looks good so

Again I would have to ask:
So you think it is better to have 512kb 2-way than 2Mb 1-way (equal cost NBB vs SkyDSL)?

watty

The one-way accelerators have high contention (as much as 500:1) and your phone line is in use the whole time. A two Buisiness Satellite connection from Digiweb can work out cheaper than the dialup time, especially if you ditch the land line completely.

Contention is an important issue. Fixed Broadband in Ireland has to be better than 48:1, and often is effectively 20:1 with even 2:1 or better performance.

Some Satellite services are the WHOLE of Western Europe shared on the 45Mbps downlink (almost all cheaper services). More expensive services are 75:1 or 100:1 contention. Cheaper satellite units only use a 0.5W uplink and more expensive ones use a 2W uplink, this allows better speed in rain, drizzle etc. Some services drop to 1/10th speed or even stop in quite ordinary rain.

Some Satellite services are equally good over the whole country. Others are very poor as you go to South West.

NBS was crosscountry Broadband.

Was Digiweb not on the http://broadband.gov.ie --> http://www.digiweb.ie/business/satellite/ or was the link out of date? (It's orientated for business, but subtract your dialup costs and Line Rental, typically over 50 Euro a month from cost of any 2 way satellite service).

I'm sure you use a Mobile for most voice calls.


I guess you can't see the RTE Woodcock hill mast there, I think I know the area, not to far from Parteen either and wrong side of hill for RTE mast? Digiweb and IBB have bases on Woodcock. (Digiweb on RTE Mast and I think IBB on a Chorus/UPC mast).

watty

NWM wrote: »

Again I would have to ask:
So you think it is better to have 512kb 2-way than 2Mb 1-way (equal cost NBB vs SkyDSL)?

yes. Ditch phone line. The 1-Way services are very variable. ANY two way satellite is cheaper than even dialup on it's own if used a lot.

barnicles

NWM, as watty said, FIxed wireless is better than any satellite. Try and see if you can see Woodcock.

Hank Scorpio

barnicles i need a website done for a project im doing
would you be willing to code it for me?
Your personal website is quiet professional.

NWM

Thanks for the info guys - some serious pause for thought going on.

When I moved in to the house I got a pair of binoculars and scanned the skyline looking for masts. I spotted 2 close together in the distance and drove up to them. This now looks to be Woodcock hill or roughly thereabouts based on my map.

I then rang a wireless operator covering Sixmilebridge and he said they were an RTE mast and (maybe) a mobile phone mast. Not useful to me (he said).

So now it looks like I have LOS to a suitable mast on Woodcock hill? Funny, I talked or emailed to all the wireless providers and none of them said I could be covered.

If you look on the NBS map I am in an area which is not and never will be covered.

So - I need to talk to Digiweb it seems.

Watty - where's your local? I'll be buying you a pint or two if this works out.

watty

NWM wrote: »

I then rang a wireless operator covering Sixmilebridge and he said they were an RTE mast and (maybe) a mobile phone mast. Not useful to me (he said).

So now it looks like I have LOS to a suitable mast on Woodcock hill? Funny, I talked or emailed to all the wireless providers and none of them said I could be covered.

If you look on the NBS map I am in an area which is not and never will be covered.

So - I need to talk to Digiweb it seems.

Watty - where's your local? I'll be buying you a pint or two if this works out.

I wonder which Wireless guy it was (don't post here!). Or Which "ALL" it was. Digiweb has about 6 wireless systems. They don't call the one on Woodcock, "Wireless". It's called Metro.

Only the Business folk in IBB seem to know about the think they have on Woodcock (or two years ago). It's very expensive and not their Breeze Fixed Wireless (fairly OK) or their Ripwave (sort of like 3G/HSDPA in a big box on your desk... About x2 to x4 ISDN speed).

I hope you pass a LOS test. How good is your RTE/TV3/TG4 via aerial? Or is it still pointing at Maghera or Mullaghanish, after all, Woodcock RTE is only about 18 years old?

The NBS map is a bit wonky. But it's not happening any time soon anyway.

Fuzzy Clam

In my expierience Digiweb 2 way satellite is not bad but it does work out very expensive. The equipment and installation will work out at about €1400 unless they are doing a special offer. SkyStar is about €120 p/m and SkyStarplus is a bit more. There is a limit which, if you exceed, Digiweb will halve you speed to 256 mbs d/l during the hours of 7 am and 7 pm (I think). When you go over the limit they send you an email with a link to a QoS website so you can monitor your usage. I have used Skype voip on it but the latency makes it uncomfortable.

If you need to know anything specific about the Digiweb service I will try to help you as a user.

barnicles

NWM wrote: »

Watty - where's your local? I'll be buying you a pint or two if this works out.

Are you turning down the pint watty?:-D

NWM

So this is where I am, from the NBS map:



I drove up to the 2 masts I could see on Woodcock hill (actually there is a 3rd Irish Aviation Authority mast there too):



Google Earth says I am 5.74km from these.

I can see most of the masts - I am presuming that the wireless broadband masts are omni-directional?

Anyway, I talked to Digiweb and even though they again said they had no product for me i told them about the mast and they are sending out someone to survey the site. 6mb Metro broadband: f'n unbeliveable, if it works.

NWM

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

In my expierience Digiweb 2 way satellite is not bad but it does work out very expensive. The equipment and installation will work out at about €1400 unless they are doing a special offer. SkyStar is about €120 p/m and SkyStarplus is a bit more. There is a limit which, if you exceed, Digiweb will halve you speed to 256 mbs d/l during the hours of 7 am and 7 pm (I think). When you go over the limit they send you an email with a link to a QoS website so you can monitor your usage. I have used Skype voip on it but the latency makes it uncomfortable.

If you need to know anything specific about the Digiweb service I will try to help you as a user.

I didn't include Digiweb satellite in my options list because of the cost. No way I'm paying €120/pm for home broadband.

watty

The signals use sectored aerials, like pineapple chunks. It allows greater capacity.

So even if you have LOS to RTE mast, you might not get a signal. There are three masts. I don't think either of the ones in the photo are the RTE one.

This link has the RTE mast. http://uk.geocities.com/mds975/masts/woodcockhill.html
I know the Tony that took the photos.


The Digiweb Sat is marketed as a Business solution, but actually my eircom bill before I got metro (end Nov 2005?) was up to 200 Euro a go, that's 100 Euro a month. I ditched the eircom line after I got my number moved to Metro, then added a 2nd number for fax.

Wcool

I have to admit this is a long shot but it seems you are not too far off from a broadband area.

Would it be be possible to ask a friend/acquintance to buy a connection that you pay for and then set up a connection to your home via 2.4 or 5ghz?

it's probably only a couple of 100 euro, but I don't know if your location allows it or you know the right people.

Just a thought

NWM

Wcool wrote: »

I have to admit this is a long shot but it seems you are not too far off from a broadband area.

Would it be be possible to ask a friend/acquintance to buy a connection that you pay for and then set up a connection to your home via 2.4 or 5ghz?

it's probably only a couple of 100 euro, but I don't know if your location allows it or you know the right people.

Just a thought

My lack of friends in the right area will be a problem...

NWM

Ok, I drove up again and found the real RTE mast - so no I can't see it. I'd need about a 20 megaton warhead to move the hill that's in the way.

So Digiweb looks to be out.

I wonder what mast IBB uses? Hopefully one of the ones I can see - but knowing my luck...

There must be 40 households in that no-coverage patch. What if I gathered 20-30 firm commitments and went to someone like BBNET or IBB or whoever, would that interest any commercial enterprise?

On the plus side, the O2 modem I'm testing now got me up to 192 kb/s this evening. Can't get it to work with a VPN though...

Fuzzy Clam

NWM wrote: »

There must be 40 households in that no-coverage patch. What if I gathered 20-30 firm commitments and went to someone like BBNET or IBB or whoever, would that interest any commercial enterprise?

Don't hold your breath. A few years ago the Government were offering Grants to ISPs to get BB to small communities. An ISP came out to where I live in the sticks and carried out tests. They said it couldn't be done even though they had been offered a number of sites by local farmers.

Sponge Bob

who owns the top of that hill behind your house , looks like its in Roo West from that map

If they want broadband themselves then maybe you can get an AP up there for the valley .

Also check WTS Broadband who operate in and near Limerick

http://wtsbb.net/

Short Grass

Hi NWM.

You will have no problem with NBB service in your area. Either Digiweb or NBB will suit except that NBB is 60% cheaper than Digiweb and has equal if not better QOS. The product is supplied by Ses-Astra who have been around for a while and know what they are doing.

Sponge Bob

He should not use satellite unless he is desperate , let him try his other options first !

Fuzzy Clam

Short Grass wrote: »

Hi NWM.

You will have no problem with NBB service in your area. Either Digiweb or NBB will suit except that NBB is 60% cheaper than Digiweb and has equal if not better QOS. The product is supplied by Ses-Astra who have been around for a while and know what they are doing.

In my expierence Digiwebs QOS is second to none. They offer 0 contention but you do pay for it.

watty

Short Grass wrote: »

Hi NWM.

You will have no problem with NBB service in your area. Either Digiweb or NBB will suit except that NBB is 60% cheaper than Digiweb and has equal if not better QOS. The product is supplied by Ses-Astra who have been around for a while and know what they are doing.

Can you back up any claims on QOS and contention?

It's true that NBB are just reselling SES-Astra's EUROPE_WIDE shared Astra2Connect.

Digiweb's partners are equally experienced and professional to Astra and Digiweb has about 10x as much install experience as most other Irish Market two-way Sat operators, several of which have gone out of business (Aramiska, MediaSat)

Ricky91t

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Don't hold your breath. A few years ago the Government were offering Grants to ISPs to get BB to small communities. An ISP came out to where I live in the sticks and carried out tests. They said it couldn't be done even though they had been offered a number of sites by local farmers.

+1 for that a village about a mile from me wanted broadband as there is a school comunity centre and post office etc there!Got around 300-400 people to sign a petition and i was told by a not very reliable scource it would be here about 3 monthes ago.And here i am still on my fixed wireless)atleast i can get something):P
It seems eircom will only activate an exchange around towns and dont even bother the venture onto the coutry side!

Shame on them

Nehaxak

I had a good lot wrote up about installing a VSAT yourself and dealing directly with SkyLogic/EutelSat but honestly it was still too expensive and complicated for a small community to deal with.

However, I will suggest that you could look at installing something like the Intel RCP wireless system to extend the broadband to homes/business in your area from other serviced area's within say 60 KM maybe ?
http://blogs.intel.com/research/2008/03/rural_connectivity_platform_be.php

I wouldn't be too gone on the 1 way satellite type services, have used them in the past when like you I had no other options open to me at all until wireless presented itself with IBB a couple years later.

Short Grass

watty wrote: »

Can you back up any claims on QOS and contention?

It's true that NBB are just reselling SES-Astra's EUROPE_WIDE shared Astra2Connect.

Digiweb's partners are equally experienced and professional to Astra and Digiweb has about 10x as much install experience as most other Irish Market two-way Sat operators, several of which have gone out of business (Aramiska, MediaSat)

NBB would be happy to demonstrate QOS at any time. NBB are resellers of Astra2Connect from Ses-Astra. Digiweb are resellers of Satlynx products. (Satlynx was previously owned by Ses-Astra until they recently sold it off to GE.)

Binka

Has anybody heard of Micromagic ltd? They came up on a google search and seem to be based in Cork. The Mediasat link is dead so i'm wondering if they have taken them over as they were based in Cork too. They do appear on any listing sites.
They are offering Satlynx 2 way bb but aren't showing any specific details re: prices and installation etc.
Anybody had any dealings with them? I'd be interested to know as sat is becoming my only option.
Thanks

mcdrogo

WARNING: AVOID SkyDSL BANDITS!

I have been a subscriber of SkyDSL Satellite Broadband for a year now. I would strongly advise against signing up with them. Before signing with them I was promised that, like my previous supplier Mediasat, there would be no problem at all for the other 2 PCs on my network to use the broadband connection. After the installation of equipment which was soon to become faulty and its replacement with more faulty equipment, I found to my cost that this was a lie.

Not happy with their service I informed them that I wanted to cancel my subscription in June. They told me that even though my 6 month contract had expired it had automatically been renewed for anther six months and I would have to continue paying until September. When I emailed them again to remind them that my contract was to be cancelled in September, they insist that my contract will be renewed again for another six months because the reminder was not sent at least a month before the end of the contract, eventhough the June request was.

They are not going to get another cent for their pitiful :eek:service. Be warned! Avoid SkyDSL!

bowsie casey

We are looking at getting 2-way 2MB satellite broadband. Looking at the table in Post1, the cheapest supplier by far for this service is Tariam.

Does anybody have experience with Tariam satellite broadband ?

TomaszP

Please, please think twice before you sign the contract
I will do everything to warn everyone else considering them as an internet provider.
I have posted my case on the website www.kilcoole.eu
I hope it's not too late for you.
Regards, Tom

mumhaabu

My recommendation is avoid all Satellite internet providers I used NBB at the ploughing championships recently was unimpressed as the sppeds looked to be around only 512kbps plus the VOIP service was ok but the ping the noticeable and it seemed like the guy on the other end was thinking before everything he said due to the delay and it also is no good for cutting across and butting in on the other guy as I often do on the phone. :rolleyes: My advice is get DSL or cable somewhere and wirelessly link it back to your house, see irishwan.com about it.

mcdrogo

mumhaabu wrote: »

My recommendation is avoid all Satellite internet providers I used NBB at the ploughing championships recently was unimpressed as the sppeds looked to be around only 512kbps plus the VOIP service was ok but the ping the noticeable and it seemed like the guy on the other end was thinking before everything he said due to the delay and it also is no good for cutting across and butting in on the other guy as I often do on the phone. :rolleyes: My advice is get DSL or cable somewhere and wirelessly link it back to your house, see irishwan.com about it.

Most people who sign up to Satellite BB do not do so because they prefer it to DSL or wireless. They do so because their only choice is Satellite or good old 33kbs dial-up. I have been waiting for many years for either DSL or wireless of any description in my area. I doubt if I'll ever be able to get either. You're lucky you have a choice in the type of broadband you want.

Mac 79

i tried that nbb at the ploughing it's really fast compared to what i have at the moment a GPRS connection not even 3g. for me satellite is the only option, it's taken me about 10 minutes to download these three pages

watty

Satellite is better than GPRS/EDGE/3G/HSDPA generally. Two way, not the SkyDSL type services which are dialup accelerators.

There are two main Sat vendors active in Ireland. NBS/Astra2Connect uses 500mW transmitter and the other mostly uses a 2000mW transmitter.

The uplink (uploads) is affected more than downlink by rain, especially on lower transmit power and further away from East Coast. (Except for Digiweb Schools sat as it is same strength all over the Island.).

Good fixed wireless (not Ripwave type services) are better than Satellite.

MunsterCycling

Watty, can I ask you are the Schools that had your service before but are now in a BB enabled area being changed over to DSL or are they stuck with Sat BB due to restrictive contracts? Just a FMI...

MC

watty

I'm under the impression that they do indeed migrate to DSL, Cable, Wireless, Digiweb Metro etc as long as the service meets the specifications.

There is a tighter spec for Wireless etc (terrestrial) than for Satellite service. So any alternative to Satellite is always better. 3G/HSDPA can't even meet the Satellite Spec on latency, jitter, ability to connect, up & down speeds. "Upto" speeds or "downto" latency doesn't cut it.
There are penalties for:
exceeding latency limit (< 800ms for Satellite. HSDPA can be bigger)
Not always getting a connection. (High failure rate on 3G/HSDPA)
Jitter (HSDPA would never meet that)
Upload & Download speed / Contention. (HSDPA has so few connections compared to fixed Wireless, that you can't even talk about contention of 48:1 meaningfully). No way to ensure HSDPA can meet up & Down speed.

Data to/from Heanet must not transit public Networks...

So at least you're safe from Fraudband. See Comments here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/30/mobile_broadband_logo/
and http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/30/mobile_broadband_logo/comments/

The EU / Vivienne Redding should ban that logo for 3G/HSDPA use.

mcdrogo

Avoid using one way broadband and especially SkyDSL. I've used both one way and two way sat bb and the extra you pay for two way will more than make up for the cost of telephone calls and the inconveniece of having you phone tied up. Also, the quality of the phone connection was an issue for me with it being cut regularly.

Also, if you decide to go with one way, avoid SkyDSL at all costs. Their support is next to useless if you have a problem, and forget about trying to cancel the contract, even if you're obeying the terms and conditions of the contract. They're trying to string me along for more payments. AVOID!