Harrington 2nd on 17th

Golferx

Has to be one of the greatest golf shots of all time.

What a way to drive the nail home and put everyone in no doubt he was a fully deserving winner.

He's well elevated over the likes of Ben Curtis, Tom Lehman, Todd Hamilton and Paul Lawrie, all somewhat flukey winners of one major.

Adiaga 2

I think it would be fairly difficult to "fluke" your way to any tournament. And Tom Lehman was in the top 3(if not no.1) in the world when he won in '96.

Mister Sifter

Those guys winning the Open was no more a fluke than Harrington's second shot on the 17th yesterday.

Harrington may have won two Opens, but there will still be an element of doubt on his shoulders until he goes and wins another of the majors. That's something i've no doubt he'll do though.

Marshy

Very good shot don't get me wrong. Nowhere near the greatest shot of all time though. If he was tied for the lead or one behind and produced it that would've been something but I'm sure he knew himself even a par on the hole would've left him in pole position. There wasn't enough riding on it to make it that outstanding but thats just my opinion. Will probably be shot of the year though.

stockdam

Harrington's shot on the 17th had far too much luck to be the best shot of all time.

He got a fortunate bounce off the side of the bunker and without that it would have just been a very good shot.

Don't get me wrong, it was a very bold and risky shot and he pulled it off but if the ball had been one foot to the left or maybe even three feet further when it pitched then it wouldn't have looked such a super shot. He pitched it in the perfect spot but I think that was more by chance than by skill.

As for Lehman.........he was one of the top golfers in the world and at his best was probably on a par with Harrington.....maybe even better.

prendy

it was a ballsy shot to take on considering he was only 2 up at the time, however it isnt the best shot of all time.
fair play to him though, a well deserved win.

kincsem

Any shot up the back of that green would gather to the hole. It was a good shot, with a great result.
But a better shot (more professional shot) imo in the circumstances would be to play short of the green, and pitch on.

Sandwich

Kinda agree with kincsem.

Have not heard PH talk about the shot, but surprised he took it on, and still feel it was a poor decision that could have been haunting him today. Had he been one behind, then it would have been worth the risk.

Still, great result.

rednik

Do you remember a certain Chip Beck. He was in touching distance of winning the Masters years ago. His caddy gave him a three wood to go for the green and he told his caddy he was laying up as he did not want to spoil a good round. He was never forgiven for that and after the Masters his caddy left him.

There are four majors a year so what are the odds on a player winning one with or without Tiger. Harrington went for it and it came off.I would rather see a player try to win than just going through the motions. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it does'nt. In this case it did and Padraig is a hero and deservedly so. Greg Norman was the same type of player as is Phil Mickelson. I know the type of player I want to watch.

Mister Sifter

rednik wrote: »

Do you remember a certain Chip Beck. He was in touching distance of winning the Masters years ago. His caddy gave him a three wood to go for the green and he told his caddy he was laying up as he did not want to spoil a good round. He was never forgiven for that and after the Masters his caddy left him.

There are four majors a year so what are the odds on a player winning one with or without Tiger. Harrington went for it and it came off.I would rather see a player try to win than just going through the motions. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it does'nt. In this case it did and Padraig is a hero and deservedly so. Greg Norman was the same type of player as is Phil Mickelson. I know the type of player I want to watch.

Isn't that the incident Bob Rotella talks of in his book? He maintains that Beck made the correct decision. If Harrington had laid up, chipped close and holed it for a birdie it would have been just as good for him in the position he was in. He went for it, got a bit of luck with the bounce and the rest is history. But it could see easily have went breasts up.

In situations like that you need to weigh up risk/reward. It came off for him, but in my opinion he took too big a risk.

Swinging Looney

rednik wrote: »

Do you remember a certain Chip Beck. He was in touching distance of winning the Masters years ago. His caddy gave him a three wood to go for the green and he told his caddy he was laying up as he did not want to spoil a good round. He was never forgiven for that and after the Masters his caddy left him.

There are four majors a year so what are the odds on a player winning one with or without Tiger. Harrington went for it and it came off.I would rather see a player try to win than just going through the motions. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it does'nt. In this case it did and Padraig is a hero and deservedly so. Greg Norman was the same type of player as is Phil Mickelson. I know the type of player I want to watch.

Couldn't agree more.

What about the possibility that PH stood over that ball on the 17th fairway and said to himself: "I've a great lie, I feel I know exactly what the wind will do to this, my swing is completely unconscious at the moment, I was hitting my 5 wood brilliantly on the range earlier, I know I can make this shot" followed by a superb strike and a 272 yard 5 wood or whatever it was.

How could you possibly talk down that decision under those circumstances? It was confident and perfectly struck shot. Of course he got a lucky break with the first kick, but that's what links golf is all about! If that 5 wood landed on the green it would have been under the grandstand at the back. He had no choice but to land it 20 yards short and hope he didn't get a bad bounce. Even if he ended up in the bunker I'm sure he would have comfortably made par. If he was in the right frame of mind and knew his swing was working, then he made a great decision and gave himself a perfect cushion coming up the 18th.

Don't fall into the trap of assuming he was thinking what most of the rest of us think when we stand on a par 5 fairway with a wood in our hands, just at the usable limit of our range from the green and say to ourselves "Jaysus, I hope I can pull this off!!".

Fair play to him. It might not qualify as the best shot of all time, but it took resolve and confidence and courage and that's all us spectators could ask for!!

Incidentally, Tiger's famous 5 iron (I think) from a bunker across water to a madly tight pin, was hailed as one of the best shots of all time. Do you not think there was luck involved there too? He was also only a yard or two from a very different result and no doubt utter condemnation of his choice of shot. He had no wind to contend with. Harrington had the better part of a 30mph, gusty crosswind to deal with and that ball landed dead on line. Superb stuff!!

rednik

I wonder does Chip Beck still think he made the right decision. Bob Rotella is a psychologist but not a golfer. Beck blundered and will never know now whether he could have won,thats the difference between a winner and a loser. Four majors a year and Harrington now has two through learning how and when to play aggresively. For me he did the right thing. He walked to the 18th tee with a four shot lead and could have birdied the 18th as well,funny how his second to 18 has not been mentioned. Another magnificent long iron going for it again. Tiger,Padraig,Phil Mickelson are the type of golfer I want to see,its a sport and winner takes all.

stockdam

Swinging Looney wrote: »

Incidentally, Tiger's famous 5 iron (I think) from a bunker across water to a madly tight pin, was hailed as one of the best shots of all time. Do you not think there was luck involved there too?

Yes I think the shots that are breathtaking and stunning probably need a slice of luck and sometimes a kind bounce.

Wood's chip in on the 16 several years ago at the Masters was also a great shot and I guess it too had an element of luck...........one more blade of grass to hold the ball up and maybe it would have clung onto the edge of the hole......it was a great shot but only a very good shot if it had stayed on the lip. But hats off to Woods, he left the ball hanging there for a millisecond before its weight took it into the hole. Probably a dramatic shot rather than a great shot though.

Back to Harrington's shot. It was a great shot but I have to agree that with two shots to spare then maybe it was on the risky side. But the guy nailed it, rode a small piece of luck and sealed the Open with a great shot. His 2nd to the 18th was also a very good shot when you consider the number of other players who left theirs short and right.

PhilipMarlowe

I think it was a fantastic shot and obviously sealed the victory for him.
I fully agree with Looney however that it was the right shot under the circumstances as I don't believe it actually carried that much risk even if he hadn't played it so well...

PhilipMarlowe

Also, re: Beck, Harrington has always gone for the win, even if it has cost him sometimes....
Remember 2002 when he went for it up 18, trying to make birdie (he made bogey, par would have got him into a playoff though he wasn't to know that at the time). I have always admired him for that style of play.

copacetic

Licksy wrote: »

Also, re: Beck, Harrington has always gone for the win, even if it has cost him sometimes....
Remember 2002 when he went for it up 18, trying to make birdie (he made bogey, par would have got him into a playoff though he wasn't to know that at the time). I have always admired him for that style of play.

Agree with this. As for Rotella, didn't he think Beck did the right thing because Beck didn't believe he could make the shot? i.e there was no point in him going for it if he was already doubting himself. imo the attitude isn't the right one if you want to win a major.

Padraig knew he could make the shot, took it on and made it. At worst he was going to be around the green with 3 shots left for a par. No-one ever made a great shot by laying up, or playing 'safe'. You have to be in it to win it.

His tactics were spot on, he played safe when needed and attacked on the holes that gave him the reward.

madds

I've watched the closing 6 holes 4 times now. I firmly believe if you had given PH half a dozen balls in the middle of the 17th fairway he would found the green with all of them and probably stitched 2/3 of them. Look at the way he was swinging the club on the way in. He was on top of his game.

I think it was a very brave shot in the circumstances with a big wind coming off the left side, but as I said above, in his eyes he saw it being the right shot at the right time.

In his press conference on Sunday he said he was very happy that he had contested a major on the last day by a) playing in the final group, b) shooting 69, and c) go and win the tournament rather then having it handed to him.

The shot on 17 was there to be hit, and he it it. Simple as that.

Goodluck2me

stockdam wrote: »

Wood's chip in on the 16 several years ago at the Masters was also a great shot and I guess it too had an element of luck...........oh..

that was my favourite shot of all time, ridiculously ballsy too, i think those lobs require a serious amount of skill to land it where you need to be.

Golferx

I find it incredible to find sop much negativity about what Harrington did on that hole.

He played the most incredible shot, at such an important time in his round, in the tournament, and all some people can come up with is "what if.......".

With all due respect, lads, "what if....." is pure and utter BS. "What if" never happened.

Simple facts are that Harrington went for a particular shot and played it to perfection. Why some people denigrate what he did is pretty bad form.

<madds> has it down to a tee. Well said.

A New earth

PH explained his logic for going for that shot. He asked Ronan for the first time how he was fixed. Ronan said he was 2 ahead of someone who was finished. He was happy with that but thought Greg was in a good position and if he made an eagle & P only had par there would only be a one shot lead playing the last.

WHIP IT!

madds wrote: »

The shot on 17 was there to be hit, and he it it. Simple as that.

End of Discussion.

careca

goodluck2me wrote: »

that was my favourite shot of all time, ridiculously ballsy too, i think those lobs require a serious amount of skill to land it where you need to be.

It was my least fav shot of all time..... I had backed Chris DiMarco at huge odds

mousey007

The courage from harrington was exceptional...what an irish hero

daithismith

I saw that someone said that the shot was 272 yards with a 5 wood. Does anyone know if this is accurate? If it is accurate, was the wind with him or would he usually hit a 5 wood from the fairway that far?

Mister Sifter

It was 249 yards, wind off the left.

fullstop

Graeme1982 wrote: »

It was 249 yards, wind off the left.

No it was 272 - probably 249 to the front

Mister Sifter

fullstop wrote: »

No it was 272 - probably 249 to the front

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/21/sports/GOLF.php

"But the proving, in the end at blustery Birkdale, was done by a 36-year-old Irishman, who wrapped his game and ambition around the back nine and hit one of the shots of his life on the par-5 17th: making the very best of a downhill lie 249 yards from the hole to hit a 5-wood within three feet."

copacetic

They did say 272 a number of occasions during the TV coverage. All the online sources
seem to be saying he carried it 249 and he had 272 to the pin. (including irish times, bbc, etc)

fullstop

Graeme1982 wrote: »

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/21/sports/GOLF.php

"But the proving, in the end at blustery Birkdale, was done by a 36-year-old Irishman, who wrapped his game and ambition around the back nine and hit one of the shots of his life on the par-5 17th: making the very best of a downhill lie 249 yards from the hole to hit a 5-wood within three feet."

Phil Parkin quoted 272 on the tv at the time and I would imagine he stepped it out as on-course commentators usually do

Mister Sifter

copacetic wrote: »

They did say 272 a number of occasions during the TV coverage. All the online sources
seem to be saying he carried it 249 and he had 272 to the pin. (including irish times, bbc, etc)

Nope, Phillip Reid says in the Irish Times today: "Harrington played a five-wood off the 17th tee and, faced with 249 yards to the pin, took the same club from his bag for the approach shot."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0721/1216565493223.html

copacetic

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Nope, Phillip Reid says in the Irish Times today: "Harrington played a five-wood off the 17th tee and, faced with 249 yards to the pin, took the same club from his bag for the approach shot."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0721/1216565493223.html

I wouldn't have said it if it wasn't in the times, 272 yards here:

Harrington launches a fairway wood from 272 yards out after finding the middle of the fairway from the tee

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0721/1216565493210.html

Goodluck2me

fullstop wrote: »

No it was 272 - probably 249 to the front

I agree, I watched it live and it was 272/274 on the tele as I was wondering how the hell he hit it that far.

Mister Sifter

Get your letters of complaint into the BBC and the Times then lads...

Harrington himself said it in the press conference after -- 220 to the front, 249 to the hole.

Mister Sifter

"I'd got 220 yards to the front (of the green), 249 to the pin. My caddie (Ronan Flood) said to me, 'you know, if you want to think of laying up . . .' and I asked him the situation. He said, 'you're two ahead'."

Morrisseeee

It could have went wrong for him, but it obviously didn't, but I think no one was going to stop him hitting that 5 wood, its in his blood, ie. every time he steps up to the 2nd shot on a par 5, he's thinking 'I can make this shot'.
Remember the Masters 2006, the par 5 15th, 3 behind the leader, he went for it and fouled up !! But he has no regrets.....quote: '"I walk away from this tournament knowing that I'm capable of winning the Masters,".

Swinging Looney

I know it's irrelevant really and besides the point, but the 17th was quoted as 572 yards long for The Open.

If Philip Reid thinks PH hit 5 wood off the tee and had just 249 to the pin, then he would have hit roughly 330 yards off the tee. With a 5 wood? Not likely.

All the same, he was downwind on the day. The wind was in the region of 25 or 30 mph from behind and from the left. With the swing he took at that ball I would expect it would have carried a lot longer than 220. If it did actually go 220 with a strong tailwind, that means about 190 on a calm day. No professional out there hits a 5 wood that weak.

If he had only 220 the front of the green, surely he would have used a 5 or 6 iron and gained much better chances of an accurate strike?

My understanding is that The BBC avail of the GPS equipped stat gatherers who measure the length and distance remaining of most shots for tour statistics purposes. I would believe them before the Irish Times I must say.

Perhaps PH got himself confused and meant 220 to carry the bunker and 249 to the front of the green, which makes 272 to the flag. Those are the numbers I remember from the coverage.

Either way, it's all irrelevant, cos it was a flippin brilliant shot which I will remember for a long time!!!

PhilipMarlowe

http://scoring.opengolf.com/scorecard.sps?iTourNo=2008060&iPlayerNo=6619 tells me that Harrington carried his tee shot 262 yards on no. 17 in round 4, with a 159mph drive velocity... whatever that means

copacetic

He hit driver off the tee on 17th though didn't he?



edit - no, he hit 5 wood according to the man himself

Mister Sifter

Swinging Looney wrote: »

I know it's irrelevant really and besides the point, but the 17th was quoted as 572 yards long for The Open.

If Philip Reid thinks PH hit 5 wood off the tee and had just 249 to the pin, then he would have hit roughly 330 yards off the tee. With a 5 wood? Not likely.

All the same, he was downwind on the day. The wind was in the region of 25 or 30 mph from behind and from the left. With the swing he took at that ball I would expect it would have carried a lot longer than 220. If it did actually go 220 with a strong tailwind, that means about 190 on a calm day. No professional out there hits a 5 wood that weak.

If he had only 220 the front of the green, surely he would have used a 5 or 6 iron and gained much better chances of an accurate strike?

My understanding is that The BBC avail of the GPS equipped stat gatherers who measure the length and distance remaining of most shots for tour statistics purposes. I would believe them before the Irish Times I must say.

Perhaps PH got himself confused and meant 220 to carry the bunker and 249 to the front of the green, which makes 272 to the flag. Those are the numbers I remember from the coverage.

Either way, it's all irrelevant, cos it was a flippin brilliant shot which I will remember for a long time!!!

I was watching the video back earlier and when he hits it you can see the 200 yard marker about 20 yards in front of him. That would be to the front so say Harrington had it spot on.

The tee shot was moe downwind than the second due to the slight dogleg in the hole. Harrington is a details man so i'd be very surprised if he recalled the yardage wrongly.

As you say though, it's all irrelevant. A shot all golf fans will remember for a long time.

fullstop

Graeme1982 wrote: »

I was watching the video back earlier and when he hits it you can see the 200 yard marker about 20 yards in front of him. That would be to the front so say Harrington had it spot on.

The tee shot was moe downwind than the second due to the slight dogleg in the hole. Harrington is a details man so i'd be very surprised if he recalled the yardage wrongly.

As you say though, it's all irrelevant. A shot all golf fans will remember for a long time.

I'm not trying to be funny but i think those markers were actually 220. I remember thinking it was strange that they weren't 200. Unless it was because 220yds=200mts

copacetic

In fairness lads, I thinking Graeme posting the press conference quote from Harrington himself should have closed the debate. Here is more of the text from http://www.gui.ie/news_detail.asp?id=1724&area=2:

17, I hit 5-wood off the tee, hit it really solid, probably didn't quite get it out there. Yesterday I hit 7-iron, but 5-wood today. I hit it really solid. It was good to hit the fairway. I got 220 front, 249 pin, 5-wood is my favourite club in the bag. My caddie said to me, you know, if you want to think of laying it up -- I asked him the situation. He said, "You're two ahead." I just felt -- I knew I could make birdie if I hit 5-wood. I knew that was going to make me -- I was anxious that Greg could make eagle going down there, and if I made lay up and I make par, all of a sudden I've got a one-shot lead.

So I knew if I could make birdie, I wasn't so much worried about the guy that was two shots ahead of me and finished, being Ian Poulter, it was more I was worried if I laid up and made par, I was giving Greg a great chance to get within one shot of me, and one shot is not comfortable in any shape or form going down 18.

So I wanted to take it on. The downslope, I convinced myself -- as you could when you're winning tournaments -- I felt the downslope was a help to me. My ball was on quite a hanging lie, and I said, well, this is great. It's going to come out low so I can't get it in the air. The only thing I knew was a problem was if I put the ball up in the air for a long time. It could obviously find its way into the trouble on the right, or I could maybe get it into the trouble on the left.

But a low shot I felt was always going to be an advantage. So the downslope, I used it in my favour, it came out nice and low. Once I hit it, it was perfect. It's one of the few times I think I've ever heard my caddie say good shot to me before the ball is finished. He doesn't realise he's doing it, and I will rib him about it later. As soon as the ball was in the air he said good shot to me which is totally out of character for him. Normally he waits until the ball has actually stopped before he says anything.

So obviously he was comfortable with what we had taken, but obviously it was a worrying shot. It was a real bonus, obviously, to finish three feet away. I would have been quite happy with it on the green and take my chances with two putts.

And once it was three feet away, you know, you can't have enough shots in the lead going down 18. I proved that last year (laughter). So I was making sure to hole that, take my four-shot lead, and it helped me enjoy the last hole. Obviously I was cautious. I wanted to get my tee shot away, hit a beautiful 3-wood. Once I hit that, I knew I had won the Open.

Mister Sifter

fullstop wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny but i think those markers were actually 220. I remember thinking it was strange that they weren't 200. Unless it was because 220yds=200mts

As Copa says, Harrington's words are good enough for me. It would be very strange if those markers were in metres. The card for the course is in yards. Having courses measured in metres, in my experience, seems to be an Irish thing. Certainly didn't come across it much in the UK.

fullstop

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Yes fullstop, I suppose you're right

Thank you

Mister Sifter

fullstop wrote: »

Thank you

Harrington: "I got 220 front, 249 pin".

End of (or full stop if you will).

scout353

Ok guys, here's the transcirpt from the post round press conference from the mouth of PH himself..........

And in my opinion that was one of the best shots I have ever seen, given the circumstances, state of play and the options available to him! Well done PH

17, I hit 5-wood off the tee, hit it really solid, probably didn't quite get it out there. Yesterday I hit 7-iron, but 5-wood today. I hit it really solid. It was good to hit the fairway. I got 220 front, 249 pin, 5-wood is my favourite club in the bag. My caddie said to me, you know, if you want to think of laying it up -- I asked him the situation. He said, "You're two ahead." I just felt -- I knew I could make birdie if I hit 5-wood. I knew that was going to make me -- I was anxious that Greg could make eagle going down there, and if I made lay up and I make par, all of a sudden I've got a one-shot lead.
So I knew if I could make birdie, I wasn't so much worried about the guy that was two shots ahead of me and finished, being Ian Poulter, it was more I was worried if I laid up and made par, I was giving Greg a great chance to get within one shot of me, and one shot is not comfortable in any shape or form going down 18.

So I wanted to take it on. The downslope, I convinced myself -- as you could when you're winning tournaments -- I felt the downslope was a help to me. My ball was on quite a hanging lie, and I said, well, this is great. It's going to come out low so I can't get it in the air. The only thing I knew was a problem was if I put the ball up in the air for a long time. It could obviously find its way into the trouble on the right, or I could maybe get it into the trouble on the left.

But a low shot I felt was always going to be an advantage. So the downslope, I used it in my favour, it came out nice and low. Once I hit it, it was perfect. It's one of the few times I think I've ever heard my caddie say good shot to me before the ball is finished. He doesn't realise he's doing it, and I will rib him about it later. As soon as the ball was in the air he said good shot to me which is totally out of character for him. Normally he waits until the ball has actually stopped before he says anything.
So obviously he was comfortable with what we had taken, but obviously it was a worrying shot. It was a real bonus, obviously, to finish three feet away. I would have been quite happy with it on the green and take my chances with two putts.

And once it was three feet away, you know, you can't have enough shots in the lead going down 18. I proved that last year (laughter). So I was making sure to hole that, take my four-shot lead, and it helped me enjoy the last hole. Obviously I was cautious. I wanted to get my tee shot away, hit a beautiful 3-wood. Once I hit that, I knew I had won the Open.


He knew what he was doing in every aspect of the decision and it worked - superb!

Swinging Looney

Hmmmm. It's all very interesting! Strange reading Harringtons quote though. What does he mean about hitting 7 iron yesterday? Off the tee on 17? Couldn't be! A short iron off the tee on a par 5??? Nah!

Licksys link shows he carried 269 off the 17th tee on Saturday and Sunday's tee shot was actually the shortest drive he's had on that hole at justs 262 yards carry.

How has he managed to hit a 7 iron longer than a 5 wood?

Perhaps there is a large amount of error in the interview text after all.

With the shot data from the Open website at 262 yards off the tee plus a generous 35 yards roll would make just shy of 300 yards off the tee. That would leave 270 odd yards to the centre of the green.

If he did have just 220 yards to the front, then he hit a 5 wood from the tee a little over 330 yards. Something ain't right I tells ya!:p

In the end, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, I choose to believe it was a 272 yard 5 wood. Because I think it sounds much better.

beertons

Great shot

Morrisseeee

I presume he means he hit 7 iron for his 2nd shot on Sat, but hit 5 wood on Sunday.

Even though this was a great shot, ie. his 2nd to 17th on Sunday, I thought his 2nd to 18th was a much better strike, ie. no luck involved there.