U2 clarence

peeps78

i just had to voice my dissapointment at the planning approval of the Clarence plans
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0717/clarence.html
i can tolerate "facadism" to an extent but the giant spaceship sitting on top will be difficult to live with, and im worried that this may open the doors to lots of other eyesores.
i seriously dont understand this blind determintation to destroy everything old in Dublin and replace it with giant glass and steel.
Old does not equal useless.
i just hope we dont lose what made this city unique before.

ejmaztec

This is the link to the relevant ABP files

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/226834.htm

Strange that the decision went agains the Inspector's report:

The following is from the last couple of pages of the 88 page Inspector's Report:


"14.0 RECOMMENDATION
I recommend that permission is refused for the following reasons and considerations:
Reasons and Considerations
1. The site of the proposed development forms part of Wellington Quay, with an
extensive open prospect from the River Liffey. The site contains a range of
protected structures set within a terrace of structures on the Quay, namely Dollard
House, the existing Clarence Hotel and Nos. 9-12 Wellington Quay. The site also
has frontage onto Essex Street East, an important component of the streetscape
forming the Temple Bar cultural quarter.
The River Liffey and its quays, inclusive of Wellington Quay, is a designated
conservation area in the current Dublin City Development Plan, with the
establishment of the riverside quays and the buildings facing onto the river regarded
in the Plan as the single most important intervention in shaping the city. The
cultural heritage value of Dollard House, which dates from 1886, extends to its
special architectural, historical, archaeological, social and technical interest, being
located on the site of the old Custom House and being the largest purpose-built
commercial premises in the city at the time of its construction, with its formidable
facades and mansard roof contributing significantly to the streetscape of Wellington
Quay and Essex Street East. The cultural heritage value of the existing Clarence
Hotel extends to its special architectural, historical, archaeological,
artistic, and social interest, also located on the site of the old Custom House and
comprising a building representative of the Art-Deco movement of the early 20th
century, important externally for its architectural expression onto Wellington Quay
and Essex Street East, and internally for its panelling and joinery, Austrian oak
features, Tearoom, Octagon Bar, and the layout of rooms and linkage, as well as for
its long established hotel use since 1831. Nos. 9-12 Wellington Quay, dating from
c. 1831, comprise part of a terrace of four storey Georgian townhouses, with their
facades contributing significantly to character of the riverside quays and Nos. 10
and 11 being important also for their historic interest and intact range of internal
fixtures and features. The protected structures on the site individually, and as part of
a group of terraced structures, form important components of the iconic streetscape
that comprise the Liffey Quays.
The zoning objective relating to this site, as set out in the current Dublin City
Development Plan, includes the reinforcement, strengthening and protection of this
area’s civic design character and dignity. Furthermore, it is a specific policy to
protect and reinforce the important civic design character of Dublin's quays and, in
addition, it is a policy to protect and enhance the character and historic fabric of
conservation areas in the control of development. It is a key objective also, in the
promotion of urban design principles in development proposals, to maintain and
enhance the potential of protected structures to contribute to the cultural character
and identity of place, including identifying appropriate viable contemporary uses.
In accordance with section 57(10)(b) of the Planning and Development Act 2000,
the Board on appeal is not permitted to grant permission for the demolition of a
protected structure, save in exceptional circumstances. Furthermore, the
__________________________________________________________________________________________
PL 29S.226834 An Bord Pleanala Page 87 of 88
Architectural Heritage Protection Guidelines for Planning Authorities, published by
the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, specifies that,
where a proposal is made to demolish a protected structure, it requires the strongest
justification before it can be granted permission.
Having regard to:
(a) The provisions of Section 57(10)(b) of the Planning and Development Act,
2000;
(b) The Architectural Heritage Protection Guidelines for Planning Authorities,
published by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local
Government;
(c) The policies and provisions of the current Dublin City Development Plan with
regard to conservation;
(d) The significant architectural, historical and cultural interest of Dollard House,
the Clarence Hotel, and Nos. 9-12 Wellington Quay;
(e) The significant contribution these protected structures make to the
architectural character of the Liffey Quays;
(f) The lack of exceptional circumstances meriting the demolition of these
protected structures; and
(g) The alternatives available to extend the range of services available at the
Clarence Hotel which incorporates the retention and re-use of the existing
protected structures on the site,
it is considered that the proposed demolition of the protected structures of Dollard
House, the Clarence Hotel and Nos. 9-12 Wellington Quay would constitute a
significant loss of historic streetscape, would undermine the integrity of the Liffey
Quays conservation area, would seriously injure the amenities of the area, would
contravene materially the current Dublin City Development Plan, would set an
undesirable precedent for demolition of protected structures in the city, and would,
therefore, would be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of
the area.
2. The site of the proposed development is located within the Liffey Quays
Conservation Area as designated in the current Dublin City Development Plan,
containing a range of protected structures that form a significant part of the terrace
of Wellington Quay and flanked by adjoining terraced protected structures. The
Development Plan acknowledges that the special value of conservation areas lies in
the architectural design and scale of these areas and it a requirement that the
Council seek to ensure that development proposals within conservation areas
complement the character of the area, including the setting of protected structures.
It is a specific policy that infill development in Dublin’s quays should complement
the character of the quays in terms of context, scale and design. Furthermore, in
considering proposals for development in conservation areas, it is the policy to have
particular regard to the effect of the proposed development on buildings and the
surrounding environment, and the impact of development on the immediate
streetscape in terms of compatibility of design, scale, height, plot width, roof
treatment, materials, landscaping, mix and intensity of use proposed. Development
within conservation areas is also required to be so designed so as not to constitute a
visually obtrusive or dominant form of development.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
PL 29S.226834 An Bord Pleanala Page 88 of 88
Having regard to:
(a) The siting of the proposed development within a terrace of structures forming
Wellington Quay;
(b) The separate and independent architectural expression of the new development
within this context;
(c) The significant increase in building height and uniformity of height imposed by
the development within a restricted section of the terrace;
(d) The substantive increase in bulk and mass created above the established parapet
level;
(e) The creation of a dominant roof structure within the terraced quays that would
be unparalleled in scale and form;
(f) The poor interface between the old building fabric being retained in the
proposal and the new rooftop structure; and
(g) The unacceptable compromise of façade retention intended
it is considered that the proposed development would result in a visually
uncompromising impact on Wellington Quay, creating an incompatible landmark
building within the terrace, undermining the relatively coherent physical form and
homogeneity of the terrace, and failing to associate with the adjoining quayside
terraced structures.
Furthermore, it is considered that the proposed development would adversely affect
the setting of the River Liffey, its bridges and streetscape, and would detract from
the visual coherence of Wellington Quay due to the overstated form, scale, mass
and bulk of development over the established parapet level, and would, thus, have a
significant adverse affect on important views and vistas along the quays.
In addition, it is considered that the scale of the new façade on Essex Street East,
i.e. its linear representation along a substantial length of the street, would imbalance
the visual coherence of this street, adversely affecting the character of Temple Bar,
and it is considered that the new rooftop element, when viewed from Fleet Street
and along the Temple Bar approach from the east, would constitute a distinctive and
discordant structure, dominating views along the streets and eroding the intimate
human scale of the historic streetscape.
The proposed development would, therefore, be seriously injurious to the visual
amenities of the area, would conflict with the policies of the current Dublin City
Development Plan, and would, thereby, be contrary to the proper planning and
sustainable development of the area.
________________________
Kevin Moore
Senior Planning Inspector
June, 2008."

eth0_

The design of the hotel is impressive, yes, but there is no way any sane or impartial person could say "Yes, this design is in keeping with the buildings along the quays in Dublin city centre".

It would have looked much better down at docklands where there is lots of futuristic architecture already.

ejmaztec

I think that An Bord Pleanála is a strange and unpredictable organisation. When they use certain excuses for shooting down someone's plans, there doesn't appear to be any consistency.

In this area, Tesco wanted to build a store. ABP did not go against the Inspector's report on that occasion. One of the reasons why it was refused was that Listowel is a "Heritage Town" and that the development wouldn't be in keeping with that status, and would not please to the eyes of the tourists driving into the town on that particular road.

They didn't seem to notice that, on the main road into the town, is a Kerry Group factory puking out all kinds of crap.

How does a town get heritage status? All of these towns seem to share the same features, gold-embossed black waste-bins, pillars etc., and many of them also seem to have the same stone laid down where the pavements used to be. None of these distinguishing features existed in historical times. It's mass-produced instant heritage that bears no relation to actual history.

Not talking down anything that ever happened in Listowel, but it doesn't seem to be any different to any other town that I've seen in Ireland.

Grid.

In fairness the buildings either side of it are a disgrace. Anything that gives the quays a facelift i'd welcome.

eth0_

Gridlock wrote: »

In fairness the buildings either side of it are a disgrace. Anything that gives the quays a facelift i'd welcome.

A disgrace in that they have not been looked after. I agree with you there. However the work they are going to do on the Clarence will look ridiculous alongside historic buildings.

I think it would be great if, when buildings are left to rot by uncaring owners, the council automatically became the owner after X years and had to restore the building.

ejmaztec

eth0_ wrote: »

A disgrace in that they have not been looked after. I agree with you there. However the work they are going to do on the Clarence will look ridiculous alongside historic buildings.

I think it would be great if, when buildings are left to rot by uncaring owners, the council automatically became the owner after X years and had to restore the building.

I've seen a local authority "grab" a ramshackle building in the middle of a town, but I think that was because they couldn't find an heir to the last owner. It was immediately auctioned, sold, demolished, re-built. It didn't have any architectural merits, but I don't know what history came with it.

Apart from that, don't they just get involved if a building is in danger of collapse, where they force the owner to shore it up? Presumably, if the owner doesn't do this, they get to grab it.

lostexpectation

ah gridlock you been duped into the deliberate dereliction trap again

MadsL

buildings are left to rot by uncaring owners

There is a Georgian bulding on Thomas Street, D8 being either partially or completely demolished (still waiting for confirmation/conflicting reports at the moment) through deliberate dereliction.

The appalling aspect of this is that the building is on the Record of Protected Structure. A turd-brown heritage plaque should now be erected with the words "Here lies another sod in the grave of Georgian Dublin".

Shame on the owner and the lack of action by DCC.