Latest UK-Market TVs - Online Sales & IRL Compatibility?

Mark#1

Do today's TVs sold via UK online sellers work in Ireland?

I've searched on here and found some threads (most recent I found was Feb 2007, which may no longer be relevant?), but I'm interested to know more about this.

I contacted two Irish dealers on the phone today to ask them and (probably predictably) was told that UK TVs will not work in Ireland.

I was told that the only difference between (in the case of the specific TV I was enquiring about) the UK Panasonic TH-50PZ80 and the Irish TH-50PY80 was that the UK PZ has a different tuner to the tuner in the Irish PY.

I spotted this on the site of an Irish dealer today (one of the two I spoke with ). There was an asterisk beside a particular TV model, and below read the line:

"This indicates the TV is made to UK specification and does not have an Irish tuner. You will need a digital source such as NTL Digital or Sky to watch TV on the indicated sets."

How relevant is the TV's built-in tuner if you're using a satellite dish/receiver (whether that be Sky/NTL/Freesat)?

I'm sure some folk are already aware of the low prices on UK online seller's sites, but the TH-50PZ80 currently sells on most UK sites for around £1200 (€1500 or so), ex shipping.

The two Irish dealers I spoke with today want €2400 and €2500 respectively for the TH-50PY80.

Does the tuner in the Irish PY80 (if indeed the tuner even is different) cost €1000 more than the one in the UK PZ80?

Or is it the difference of 3.5% between UK and Irish VAT that adds the €1000?

Or is it the few hours in the back of a truck on its way from the UK to Ireland that adds the €1000?

If the PZ80 can be used in Ireland, and the real reason for the addition of €1000 on top of the UK price is mainly down to greedy Irish dealers taking Irish punters as thicks, then I owe it to myself to deliberately buy it from one of these UK online sellers and spite the Irish dealer's greed.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me, or direct me to some place where I can get an honest & accurate answer to this? I suspect that Irish dealers are quite capable of doing so, but won't because they know where I'll go to make my purchase once they do.

I'll stop asking questions now. If anyone is kind enough to answer, I'm sure that'll create more questions in my mind...


Thanks,

Mark

chump

Mark#1 wrote: »

Do today's TVs sold via UK online sellers work in Ireland?

I contacted two Irish dealers on the phone today to ask them and (probably predictably) was told that UK TVs will not work in Ireland.

I was told that the only difference between (in the case of the specific TV I was enquiring about) the UK Panasonic TH-50PZ80 and the Irish TH-50PY80 was that the UK PZ has a different tuner to the tuner in the Irish PY.

Hi mark,

I have no definitive info. for you but from my understanding the digital tuners are for digital freeview in the UK. We don't use this and so it isn't needed. We don't have a digital 'freeview' service here yet.
The tv's will have no problem connecting to sky or ntl digital boxes, and the sets usually come with a standard analogue inputs (UHF aVHF (?)) too.

You can get instruction manuals for most sets online which list the inputs outputs and various details - suggest you look at panasonic site for the manuals for these sets.

Summary; no trouble buying from UK. IMO

big_moe

hi, i work for alliance electric and i can tell you that the difference between the PZ & PY is just the tuners.

the tuner is used in ireland if you have bog standard ntl or chorus tv signal. if you have any sort of digital signal (ntl digital, sky, freesat, etc) you wont use the tuner.

the difference in price comes mainly from the different manufacturing cost of the tv. it is a much smaller production run so that will always have a higher cost. there are also other factors as well.

the uk model has a digital tuner which is useless in ireland (you can get a digital trial at the moment but that is going to disappear in the near future)

adam

Mark#1

Thanks for your replies, particularly Adam - you could have easily been quite defensive considering my tone and inferrence, given that you work for Alliance.

big_moe wrote: »

hi, i work for alliance electric and i can tell you that the difference between the PZ & PY is just the tuners.

the tuner is used in ireland if you have bog standard ntl or chorus tv signal. if you have any sort of digital signal (ntl digital, sky, freesat, etc) you wont use the tuner.

For someone buying a new 50" full 1080HD plasma TV, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume they weren't going to be watching much analogue terrestrial TV?

big_moe wrote: »

the difference in price comes mainly from the different manufacturing cost of the tv. it is a much smaller production run so that will always have a higher cost.

With respect, is it realistic (or even respectful) to ask Irish punters to swallow that the smaller production run results in an extra cost of €1000 per unit?

I work in a manufacturing environment. We can change-over any one of our seven production lines from building a small simple product to building a large awkward product within half an hour - roll in the raw materials, let her rip. I can't imagine the build of a PY is different from a PZ.

I have no knowledge of exactly what's involved, but surely it's fit either part A for PY or part B for a PZ, with parts A and B in all likelihood being virtually identical?

€1000 extra per unit? I personally don't swallow that.

big_moe wrote: »

there are also other factors as well.

I'm sure transport is one? What others could there be?

big_moe wrote: »

the uk model has a digital tuner which is useless in ireland (you can get a digital trial at the moment but that is going to disappear in the near future)

Is that what they're talking about in this link?

http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/News/launch+of+website.htm

Quotes from this story:

"Intended to replace the existing analogue services provided by RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 by 2012, the advantages of DTT are numerous."

"RTÉ is committed to providing a speedy rollout of DTT throughout the country to provide reception of the national broadcast services and is also committed to the development of high definition services over the DTT platform."

"A trial of DTT has been operating since 2006 in Dublin and Co. Louth."

"An EU target switch-off date of analogue television services has been set for 2012 and I am confident that this deadline will be met."

I make two observations from this:

1. I'm in Dublin, so there's a strong chance that if I bought a UK TV, I'd get DTT while it lasts, and I'll definitely get it once DTT is fully "rolled out".

2. There will be no analogue TV signal by 2012, so there'll be no necessity for Irish punters to buy Ireland-specific TVs costing 60% more than identical UK TVs.

I hope you don't think I'm picking at you, Adam - I'm not, and I'm grateful for your reply.

If you're Mr Alliance himself, then I can understand your (and all other Irish TV dealer's) attempt to explain Irish prices, but it doesn't take a wizard to work out that we're being ripped off on TVs.

I'll make a point again that I made above - I bet no-one who's buying a 50" full 1080HD plasma TV intends to watch analog terrestrial TV on it.

So the tuner difference between a UK 50" full 1080HD plasma TV and an IRL 50" full 1080HD plasma TV is utterly moot and irrelevant - there is no reason to buy an IRL-specific TV.

I'm not particularly knowledgable about all of this, but on the face of it, I can't see why, today, we need IRL-specific TVs.

Those still choosing to watch analogue terrestrial TV will probably be happy with 32" tube TVs or maybe even 40" LCD "HD Ready" TVs, but I bet that big, new high-spec full-HD TVs will rarely, if ever, see an analogue signal.

I'm repeating myself. Points made, signing off.

Again, I'm not picking at you, Adam.


Mark

MartyM

I could be wrong but I thought the Irish DTT service will be different from the UKs DTT?

If so, there may well be a need for Irish specific models for those you want to receive their stations terrestrially.

chump

big_moe wrote: »

hi, i work for alliance electric and i can tell you that the difference between the PZ & PY is just the tuners.

the tuner is used in ireland if you have bog standard ntl or chorus tv signal. if you have any sort of digital signal (ntl digital, sky, freesat, etc) you wont use the tuner.

Hi adam

So there are different analogue tuners in them. Will the UK one not work in ireland and vice versa?
ie. I assume the Uk version tuner will pick up ntl or chorus bog standard analogue tv

Rgds

Mark#1

MartyM wrote: »

I could be wrong but I thought the Irish DTT service will be different from the UKs DTT?

If so, there may well be a need for Irish specific models for those you want to receive their stations terrestrially.

chump wrote: »

Hi adam

So there are different analogue tuners in them. Will the UK one not work in ireland and vice versa?
ie. I assume the Uk version tuner will pick up ntl or chorus bog standard analogue tv

Rgds

http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/DTT+Rollout.htm

This link says the IRL DTT system will indeed be different to the UK's, so it seems Adam is right. Also, the DTT trial finishes at the end of July, so again, Adam is right.

So it seems that if you want free DTT in Ireland, we may have to buy IRL-specific TVs, though not for the same reason as was hitherto the case.

Someone somewhere has planned this very well to ensure the highest amount of money possible can continue to be squeezed out of the Irish consumer.

Aparrently the Irish DTT system will be more future-proof than the UK's current system.

So let me ask these questions, not necessarily of Adam (vested interest, though please feel free, Adam), but of anyone else out there who can answer:

Why aren't all the EU members going to use a universal DTT system if this is ultimately an EU-driven directive?

If we ignore DTT, can a UK TV be used in Ireland to receive RTE 1, RTE 2, TV3, TG4, BBC1, BBC2, UTV, CH4 and all the other channels available from whichever package you choose from Sky or NTL with their satellite receiver?


Thanks,

Mark (not trying to stir it, just reluctant to be conned)

ethernet

Mark#1 wrote: »

... Why aren't all the EU members going to use a universal DTT system if this is ultimately an EU-driven directive?

Some countries have had DTT up and running for years. We can learn from them. People are demanding free HD content on DTT in the UK (on Freeview). This will mean reshuffling the channels in the multiplex, using mpeg4 compression and/or DVB-T2. The latter isn't ever finished yet! Using newer compression and transmission technologies will allow for more channels overall.

If we ignore DTT, can a UK TV be used in Ireland to receive RTE 1, RTE 2, TV3, TG4, BBC1, BBC2, UTV, CH4 and all the other channels available from whichever package you choose from Sky or NTL with their satellite receiver?

Absolutely -- on Sky or NTL/Chorus (UPC). Just use a standard scart (or HDMI, if available). The problem is where people are relying on analogue terrestrial. In some parts of the country, the transmitters use VHF and UHF for transmission (Truskmore and Maghera come to the top of my head) so, so-called UK TVs with just UHF tuners, won't be able to tune in some channels (often RTÉ 1 and 2). There are workarounds -- a cheap VCR with a VHF tuner could be used as a modulator, for example.

big_moe

ok, the tuners in UK are DVB (DTT) using MPEG2 compression. the irish trial service is MPEG2 but the proper service will be MPEG4 (as this is better for HD content) so a new tuner will be required.

Some manufacturers, sorry most, have tuners for everything DVB, analogue (uhf/vhf). panasonic is one of the only exceptions that has different tuners between Ireland & the UK.

it is quite right that on a 50" Full HD set analogue will look pretty §hite. i have a 42" and i never use analogue unless when im recording one channel on digital then i have to use analogue.

in an analogue tuner for ireland, we need UHF & VHF. in the uk all they use is UHF. then some UK tvs also have DVB (DTT) tuners, which as we all now know (!) is going to be useless when the proper Irish service is launched.

Without an analogue tuner, you will need a digital decoder. Be it NTL digital, sky, freesat etc


I'm gonna try justify the price difference (to an extent). What we offer (alliance electric) is a store where you can walk in and look at Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony or JVC televisions side by side, with HD on everything and also SD available (sky). as far as we know there is not too many places in the whole of Ireland that have Panasonic & Pioneer side by side. we also offer excellent advice, we know our stuff on all products we sell. if you buy from the uk, if something was to go wrong, you don't have a store to go back to. you don't have a local number for advice, you don't have somebody that can call out to your house to have a look at a problem.

this thread is going to very quickly turn into a discussion about the economic differences between Ireland & the UK, so lets try keep it to TVs!!

if anybody wants advice on TVs, give me a shout!

adam

Tattoosnob

Hi Big Moe,
I agree with your point about Alliance Electric having a great setup and being one of the few (probably only) place you can view Panasonic and Pioneer side by side, that's a credit to you, but seriously the smaller production runs equals more expensive TV's in Ireland is just BS, I sure you are used to mugs of all shapes and sizes asking silly questions that are easily fobbed off with this but going on a forum saying the same thing is daft.
Buying local is always my prefered option but the price has to be fair. e.g The LX5090 at 3000 euro is excellent can't beat that, but then Alliance also had the 508XD for 3000euro with no stand or speakers, the same can be got for approx 2100-2200 euro with stand and speakers. I'm sorry but that's pulling the proverbial. No way I'm paying a grand extra for the privilage of buying local.
Anyway keep up the interaction with the forums it's good to hear your side of things regardless.
P.S. No 508/5080XDs left I see.

Mark#1

big_moe wrote: »

ok, the tuners in UK are DVB (DTT) using MPEG2 compression. the irish trial service is MPEG2 but the proper service will be MPEG4 (as this is better for HD content) so a new tuner will be required.

Some manufacturers, sorry most, have tuners for everything DVB, analogue (uhf/vhf). panasonic is one of the only exceptions that has different tuners between Ireland & the UK.

So does this mean that a UK TV from most brands other than Panasonic would work in Ireland now and in the future?

big_moe wrote: »

it is quite right that on a 50" Full HD set analogue will look pretty §hite. i have a 42" and i never use analogue unless when im recording one channel on digital then i have to use analogue.

in an analogue tuner for ireland, we need UHF & VHF. in the uk all they use is UHF. then some UK tvs also have DVB (DTT) tuners, which as we all now know (!) is going to be useless when the proper Irish service is launched.

Without an analogue tuner, you will need a digital decoder. Be it NTL digital, sky, freesat etc

big_moe wrote: »

I'm gonna try justify the price difference (to an extent). What we offer (alliance electric) is a store where you can walk in and look at Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony or JVC televisions side by side, with HD on everything and also SD available (sky). as far as we know there is not too many places in the whole of Ireland that have Panasonic & Pioneer side by side. we also offer excellent advice, we know our stuff on all products we sell. if you buy from the uk, if something was to go wrong, you don't have a store to go back to. you don't have a local number for advice, you don't have somebody that can call out to your house to have a look at a problem.

I sincerely thank you for your input on this, Adam - it'd be so easy for you to keep quiet and save yourself the inevitable accusations that this topic might bring.

I just can't stand the feeling of being ripped-off. Surely a smart Irish business would have by now copped on to the reality of buying on-line vs buying local - same products, vastly different prices: that's greedy profiteering at its ugliest, IMO. I've no problem with capitalism or opportunism - it's profiteering that I resent. If the same TV was available in Ireland for maybe €200 more, I'd consider that, but €1000 is taking the p1ss, IMO.

To digress with some examples, my band bought our 4300w PA from MusicStore and Thomann in Germany. We spent over €9000. Nothing available in Ireland approaching the quality of the gear we bought could be bought for anywhere near that money. On top of the manufacturer's warranties, we also got the store's 3 year warranties on everything.

I bought my wife an Olympus E-410 + 2 lenses from Komplett recently - €600 delivered, IIRC. The replacement for the E-410, the E-510, is currently €560 with 2 lenses. Name one place in Ireland selling that combo for that price.

I'd love to be able to compare & sample products in the flesh before buying, and have the comfort of good service and the perception that it'll be easier to address any warranty issues, but as Tattoosnob says, that's not worth €1000 to me. That €1000 gets me an amp & speakers to go with my new TV...

big_moe wrote: »

this thread is going to very quickly turn into a discussion about the economic differences between Ireland & the UK, so lets try keep it to TVs!!

if anybody wants advice on TVs, give me a shout!

adam

I did talk about the price difference between TVs available in the UK vs those available in Ireland in my OP Adam, so I think it's fair to continue talk about it in replies.

But if we're going to keep it about the compatibility of UK TVs in Ireland, let me ask this:

What brands of 46" - 50" full HD plasma TVs sold in the UK can definitely be used in Ireland?

If you're using digital satellite (freesat or Sky/NTL), any UK TV will work - is this correct?

If you want to avail of Irish DTT when it comes out, what brands suit?


Mark

MayoForSam

By the time DTT rolls out fully (that could be years away especially if it costs money for the government in the present climate), we will probably be able to buy a small add-on / set-top box that will allow you to pick up the signal for a non-compatible TV. Most people (I would assume) will soon have either cable or Sky so DTT will not be the only option.

I bought my 42" plasma from Germany last year (with a German tuner) and it works perfectly - never bothered with the analogue signal. I saved at least €500 at the time. It's an open European market - the consumer can purchase any product in any EU state freely. The pan-European warranty covers all Panasonic products regardless of where you buy.

There will always be a need for bricks-and-mortar stores like Alliance Electric for people that want to see their TV and to buy locally (at a premium) but thankfully at least we have a choice.

Mark#1

FYI...

http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/NR/rdonlyres/4D228F0E-3207-4AC5-84BB-1EDBAC4313BD/0/CEDADTTGuidanceNotesFINAL14Feb2008.pdf


Mark

ongarite

Mark#1 wrote: »

But if we're going to keep it about the compatibility of UK TVs in Ireland, let me ask this:

What brands of 46" - 50" full HD plasma TVs sold in the UK can definitely be used in Ireland?

If you're using digital satellite (freesat or Sky/NTL), any UK TV will work - is this correct?

If you want to avail of Irish DTT when it comes out, what brands suit?


Mark

If you are using NTL or Sky exclusively, no aeriel at all, you can use ANY fullHD plasma TV sold in the UK.

Irish DTT trail ends this month AFAIK, so the DVB MPEG-2 tuners in current UK TVs will be useless after this trail is over.
There are no TV with MPEG-4 tuners on the market now AFAIK as the standard isn't decided yet for each country.
If you want a FREESAT ( FTA Satellite) capable TV, the Panasonic 46PZ81 TV is the only one available at the moment.