Relationship Issues - my selfishness

LegacyUser

I'm in a 2.5 year relationship with my fiancee, though at the moment we're on the brink of breaking up. 2008 has been a bad year for us, and shows no signs of improving. I'm doing ok - decent job, friends, etc, but my other half isn't - she's not happy with her job or her prospects, my friends, and the things she lost/gave up to be with me.

Without going into too much detail, due to negative influences from both myself and the people I associated with, she lost out on a very good career path, something she dreamed of. I never did anything intentionally, but due to my selfishness, never did anything about what was going on either. At Christmas we got engaged as things had been going quite well for us, and she really wanted it, but since then it's been a bit of a nightmare.

The main issue was that she was bullied and made an outcast by my friends. I didn't believe it at first as I had known these people for many years, but eventually saw it and stopped seeing my friends. This was very difficult for me and caused many problems as I felt hard done by, but it was the only thing I could do. It didn't seem to fix the problem though as we have continually fought and battled with each other. She makes me so angry and upset at times and quite often I just can't stand being around her. On the other hand, when things are good between us, they are brilliant and I love her and being with her. Unfortunately there seems to be so little of this.

Anyway, the main issue between us is that I'm very selfish and thoughtless. I have always been like this - this is my first serious relationship (I'm 33) so I've never had anyone else to think about, and even though we're together for some time I still can't seem to look beyond myself. Even when something important comes up for her, I forget about it or do something else. I also never seem to be able to do the right thing, like reward her with a night out or think of nobody but her for the weekend and what she'd like to do. It makes me wonder if I'm cut out for relationships at all. It's gotten so bad that almost every day I do something that warrants an argument.

I don't want the relationship to end, but I know that I need to become more thoughful and balanced between us - I just don't know how to do it. Do I need to see a counsellor? Do I just need to finish the relationship? Is it me/her? I really am lost as I cannot figure out what I can do, and she's expecting me to do something or else it's over. Sorry for the rant, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

dudara

Whatnext? wrote: »

At Christmas we got engaged as things had been going quite well for us, and she really wanted it, but since then it's been a bit of a nightmare.

Did you want it too? Or would you have been happy to continue with the relationship as is?

Whatnext? wrote:

Anyway, the main issue between us is that I'm very selfish and thoughtless. I have always been like this - this is my first serious relationship (I'm 33) so I've never had anyone else to think about, and even though we're together for some time I still can't seem to look beyond myself. Even when something important comes up for her, I forget about it or do something else.

This isn't quite true. You did take steps to protect her from your bullying friends. Your heart appears to be in the right place, you just need how to figure out how to display it in a better more frequent fashion.

Whatnext? wrote:

I also never seem to be able to do the right thing, like reward her with a night out or think of nobody but her for the weekend and what she'd like to do.

Does she say this or is it what you think?

Whatnext? wrote:

It's gotten so bad that almost every day I do something that warrants an argument.

Who starts these arguments? Do you think that they are warranted?

Do you and your fianceé communicate well? If you suggested getting professional help, do you think she would be amenable?

Apologies for asking so many more questions, but it might help clarify the situation some more.

You are to be praised for wanting to fix the relationship. So many people bail out when the going gets hard. However, having said that, neither is it worth continuing in a relationship that is on it's last legs.

Rayven199

I think you guys need to sit down and have a serious chat about things and try to find out where each of you is having problems and then try to work on those areas.

Like if you think you are being selfish etc. then start with the little things like even having dinner ready for her when she comes home in the evening the odd time, that kind of thing and maybe plan the odd weekend away for just the two of you.

But a chat is defniately in order if you want to save the relationship. If nothing is said then things will continue to fester and eventually boil over which could be the end.

Nevyn

Relationships impact on people in different ways, sometimes the sum of those impacts is postivie and sometimes the sum of those impacts is negative.

If over all the experience of being in a relationship with a person means it has had for them a negative outcome then yes it will effect the other person and the relationship as a whole.

You see yourself as being part to blame for the negative impacts being in a relationship with you has had on your girlfriend, you see how it is effecting the relationship.

So you have a choice to make.

Will you cut your losses and learn from the situation so you do not repeat those mistakes again ?

or

Will you learn to support your partner through the tough time she is experiencing, the tough time your relationship with each other is having and the tough time you are having
as you have come to certain realizations about yourself and your behaviour ?

Can you work to salvage the situation so that you can move forward and get married ?
Do you want to work salvage the situation so that you can move forward and get married ?

Have you asked her these questions ?

LegacyUser

dudara wrote: »

Did you want it too? Or would you have been happy to continue with the relationship as is?

No, not initially. I was quite happy to continue with what we had and in some aspects felt pressurised into it. Having said that, once I announced it to the family I was happy with it and have continued to be happy about it.

dudara wrote: »

Does she say this or is it what you think?

She says it, and it's also what I think. When she lays it out it makes sense, and I feel like a complete idiot, but at that stage the damage is done and either an argument ensues as I get angry at another argument happening or she gets very upset and a night or weekend is ruined.

dudara wrote: »

Who starts these arguments? Do you think that they are warranted?

Generally it's her, or me whenever I get fed up listening to her complain about me and my selfishness. I guess it's split. Only occasionally do I feel we have an unjustified row and I have to admit that she owns up if she has been unfair or said something unwarranted.

dudara wrote: »

Do you and your fianceé communicate well? If you suggested getting professional help, do you think she would be amenable?

This is something of a sticky point. I'm not good at communicating things such as how I'm feeling or what I want/can do to fix things. She is good at communicating and quite often spends 80% of our conversations talking, only to feel upset that I'm not contributing as I can come across as cold. I don't think the problem with the relationship is her, so I'm not sure if she would need to speak to a counsellor. I'm sure she'd be up for it though.

Thanks a million and don't worry about the questions as I'm more than happy to do anything I can to fix this - she deserves more than I'm offering at the moment. Thanks to you too Rayven - what you said makes sense and I will try to adopt it, one bit at a time.

Mr. Incognito

Alarm bells!!!

Why is it all about her. Whay are you the only one at fault? Why did she come between you and your mates?

I think you're going to have to flesh out the story a bit here mate.

LegacyUser

Sounds to me like she's extremely manipulative and knows all your weak spots.

-She pressurized you to get engaged
-She came between you and your friends
-She convinces you your a bad boyfriend and don't do enough for you
-She shouts at you and makes you feel worthless
-She creates all the arguments basically speaks throughout

I'm sorry to say this, but yes it is your fault-your fault for putting up with it. It seems to me that you have extremely low self esteem and you look towards her for approval. When things are going well you feel good, when they're not worthless. Stop depending on her for validation. Start questioning her bahaviour a bit more and above all else start examining why you blame yourself for all of this. Otherwise your headed for the marraige from hell.

Ainekav

Whatnext? wrote: »

Do I need to see a counsellor? Do I just need to finish the relationship? Is it me/her? I really am lost as I cannot figure out what I can do, and she's expecting me to do something or else it's over. Sorry for the rant, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

i can empathise with the confusion your feeling as to what to do to make it right for her. i think the best thing you can do in the situation is either show her this post or part of it or explain to her what your feeling with the help of what youve written here. that will show her you want to sort this out badly.

it cant all be your fault though, you need to discuss this and also examine why you think its all your fault. is it possible she has made you think this?

theres no real way we can judge whether its you or her. only the two of you can decide that. and the chances are, its both of you. it sounds to me like one of you is as much to blame as the other..

the simple fact may be that your just not suited. counselling would be a wise idea for the two of you.

dont be too hard on yourself though.

MagicMarker

OP i think you have to go into more detail here, provide examples of what you're talking about etc...

Right now, from what you say, she appears to be a bitch!

LegacyUser

Ok I'll try to go into more detail as she's definitely not a bitch! As our engagement wasn't what you'd call pretty or memorable, she had asked me to re-propose again at some stage over April - June. She explained how much it would mean to her to have a proper proposal and I agreed that I would do it. For some reason I kept on putting it off, making excuses to myself for putting it off such as not finding the right place or the timing being off. This hurt her quite a lot as she has done plenty for me - always been there whenever I've been down, needed a shoulder to lean on, etc, etc.

Another example happened yesterday. She has a very important meeting today, one that could change both of our lives dramatically. It will be very stressful for her and I've known about it for about a week. Yesterday, without thinking, I organised a game of soccer with some mates for after work. When I told her this, she got very upset as she expected me to be around to speak to and support her after this difficult meeting. I felt like a complete dick as she was right - I should have been more concerned about a meeting that could have enormous positive consequences on our lives than a game of soccer.

Things like this keep happening. I'm very impulsive - I seem to plan things for myself without thinking of the consequences, yet can't plan things for the both of us. I forget things that are important to her and she never forgets. I'm pretty absent-minded and have a relatively short attention span - I've been this way for as long as I can remember.

For what it's worth, I don't believe that it's all my fault. She is very dependant on me as she doesn't really have anybody else that she trusts to talk to, so it all comes back on me, and this can be very tough going, especially when things aren't going well with her as there are many nights were she would be upset regularly and there's only so much consoling I can do.

In my opinion the main problem is that I can't keep things that are important to both of us, or her, in my head for long enough to realise their significance - I forget aobut them, don't plan anything in celebration when something good happens, whereas she's the complete opposite. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just like any other bloke who forgets things like these and that she just expects too much from me, but when I speak to her I realise that she's not actually asking for too much, just to be recognised and treated equally.

Thanks for all the help - I really appreciate it.

dudara

TBH, you don't sound much worse than the average bloke.

Maybe you could make some more effort, but you can't fundamentally change yourself to be a super-sensitive, remembering everything type of guy. When you're in a relationship, there's got to be give and take. You need to make more of an effort, but she has to realise how far this extends.

Why is your fianceé so dependant on you? That doesn't appear very healthy to me.

Beruthiel

Reply112 wrote: »

I seem to plan things for myself without thinking of the consequences, yet can't plan things for the both of us. I forget things that are important to her and she never forgets. I'm pretty absent-minded and have a relatively short attention span - I've been this way for as long as I can remember.

Is there no where you can set reminders for yourself? Anything I think I'll forget but need to remember go into my e-mail calendar.

She is very dependant on me as she doesn't really have anybody else that she trusts to talk to

That's not a good position to be in and I would consider it very unhealthy to depend so much on just one person.

In my opinion the main problem is that I can't keep things that are important to both of us, or her, in my head for long enough to realise their significance - I forget aobut them, don't plan anything in celebration when something good happens, whereas she's the complete opposite. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just like any other bloke who forgets things like these and that she just expects too much from me, but when I speak to her I realise that she's not actually asking for too much, just to be recognised and treated equally.

My bloke would forget his head if it wasn't attached to his shoulders. He doesn't do it on purpose, it's not because he doesn't care, it's just the way he is. Mind you, in saying that, he has managed to remember christmas, birthdays and anniversaries. Other than that, he won't remember anything, so I'll just remind him. Can she not do the same?

I should have been more concerned about a meeting that could have enormous positive consequences on our lives than a game of soccer.

In that case, you should have just cancelled the game explaining you have forgotten a previous engagement.

RedXIV

Reading over this mate, i think, if anything this problem is at least 50-50 if not more her issue. While you could do the odd nice thing here or there to try and make her feel better, her asking you to give up a night of soccer, just so you could discuss a meeting, which i'm sure would have waited until after a match.

I know alot of guys who'd be like you, they forget pretty much everything but at least they make the odd effort every once in a while as you seem to do.

If you decide to go ahead with the councilling, you might find you are not so much to blame here as you may have originally thought...

How Strange

OP, when I read this quote I have to say I laughed out loud. Sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful to your problem. But this is ridiculously immature on your fiancee's part

Yesterday, without thinking, I organised a game of soccer with some mates for after work. When I told her this, she got very upset as she expected me to be around to speak to and support her after this difficult meeting. I felt like a complete dick as she was right - I should have been more concerned about a meeting that could have enormous positive consequences on our lives than a game of soccer.

Surely you would've met her after soccer and talked to her about it. IMO, this is just plain unreasonable on her part. Regardless of how important the meeting was I presume you would've discussed it ad nauseum at some stage last night anyway so what's the harm in having a football match beforehand?

I forget about it or do something else. I also never seem to be able to do the right thing, like reward her with a night out or think of nobody but her for the weekend and what she'd like to do.

Why do you have to 'reward' her for anything? It's supposed to be an equal relationship not a competition where one person gets prizes. Why do you have to only think of her for the weekend? Can you not balance it between doing things together and doing things on your own?

she's expecting me to do something or else it's over.

So has she no part to play in resolving the problems you both have? Why is it solely your responsibilty? It's supposed to be an equal relationship so problems have to be solved together. IMO, there is never just one person to blame in any situation, she has to be contributing to the problem in some way.

When she lays it out it makes sense, and I feel like a complete idiot, but at that stage the damage is done and either an argument ensues as I get angry at another argument happening or she gets very upset and a night or weekend is ruined

If you tell someone that they are stupid and an idiot often enough well then they start to believe it and they start to do stupid, idiotic things. I just don't understand how or why she would want to put forward an argument where she proves that you're an idiot. I find that offensive and quite aggressive.

I also think now you're falling into a self defeating pattern where you subconsciously know you have to do something with your fiancee, she'll be angry if you don't do it and it will cause an argument where you'll be called an idiot and you'll feel terrible but you go ahead and do it anyway. Why? Because that's who you are or at least who your fiancee made you believe you are. It's like the person who's always late for everything and they know it p1sses people off but they continue to do it. You really need to face up to this trait and ask yourself why you continue to repeat this pattern

Generally it's her, or me whenever I get fed up listening to her complain about me and my selfishness.

It seems she does all the talking and you're supposed to do what you're told - like a good child.

sticky point. I'm not good at communicating things such as how I'm feeling or what I want/can do to fix things. She is good at communicating and quite often spends 80% of our conversations talking, only to feel upset that I'm not contributing as I can come across as cold.

No, she's not a good communicator because she does 80% of the talking so only 20% of the listening. Therefore, she's a bad communicator. According to you she also goes off in tears if you argue back so how is that good communication?

As our engagement wasn't what you'd call pretty or memorable, she had asked me to re-propose again at some stage over April - June. She explained how much it would mean to her to have a proper proposal and I agreed that I would do it. For some reason I kept on putting it off, making excuses to myself for putting it off such as not finding the right place or the timing being off. This hurt her quite a lot as she has done plenty for me - always been there whenever I've been down, needed a shoulder to lean on, etc, etc.

Sorry OP, I laughed for the second time. This is so absurd. An engagement is supposed to be about saying 'we want to get married', a proposal is asking someone to marry you. It doesn't matter if you do it over a cup of tea watching the nine o'clock news or on the Eiffel Tower, it's still the same.
Honestly OP, it seems that your fiancee is one helluva manipulator.

In my opinion the main problem is that I can't keep things that are important to both of us, or her, in my head for long enough to realise their significance - I forget aobut them, don't plan anything in celebration when something good happens, whereas she's the complete opposite.

OP, having read all your posts, and I thought this from the very first one, I think your fiancee is a bully and a manipulator. You really don't paint the most flattering picture of her and the thing is your intention in your posts seemed to be to portray yourself as this awful bf.

In fact, I feel quite sorry for you. All I can say is get out of this relationship. Cut your losses. How do you know that your friends could see her for what she was and were concerned for you? Maybe they stood up to her.
She really comes across as an immature bully who has you convinced that you're this awful person. You were coerced into an engagement and then told to 'do it properly' at a later stage.

You say it's your first relationship so maybe you've no point of reference for how people should behave but I would never ever treat my bf the way she is treating you and I know for a fact he wouldn't tolerate it if I even tried it.

MagicMarker

+ 1 million.

OP: You are waaaaay to hard on yourself, and so is she.

She dependant on you and only you, and she expects too much... So what if she had a meeting? Is she soo immature that she can't wait a couple of hours for you to get home to talk about it? Why should you put your life on hold to discuss her career?

If you don't mind going into more detail, what happened with her and your friends? And this supposed career path that you apparently destroyed?

LegacyUser

Thanks again for the help - I'm glad I found this forum! I can't go into too much detail, but what happened between the two of us and my friends was that they didn't get on at all, and made it quite difficult for her. They excluded her from things, made her feel very self-conscious, and caused her to lose her confidence and self-esteem. I contributed to his as, as mentioned, I didn't believe it to begin with, and I also didn't help matters as I would often spend quite a long time mixing with others at pubs where I knew she would be uncomfortable rather than being with her.

She had been studying full time in college, half way through the course, having done really, really well in her summer exams, and the knock of not being accepted by my friends and being made to feel so uncomfortable, along with my carry-on around them caused her to be unable to study or concentrate on the course and she dropped out. Her confidence was shot. This was the last straw and basically it was her or my friends. I felt that I had never given our relationship my full attention as, naturally enough, I liked socialising with these people, some of which I'd known for 10 years.

So I decided to take a break from them. It was very hard - initially I kept making excuses for not turning up to things, then just stopped answering phone calls, but eventually those stopped. Unfortunately things between us didn't really improve as she was incredibly bitter about what had happened and it was probably the worst time we had.

About 7 months ago I got back in touch with my friends and things have been going ok on that front - she has made a huge effort to mix again and to be as friendly as possible, which is understandably difficult considering they were not very nice to her, and my friends (for the most part) seem to be doing the same, so at least that side of things has improved. She's working again, but is still bitter about what she lost and I can understand where she's coming from as she may never get that career focus/path back again.

We've patched up this week, thanks to suggestions on this thread, and we'll see how things go. I'm going to keep all of your suggestions and thoughts for future reference, in case things go bad again, or perhaps things will improve and I can report positively in the near future. I'm heading away for a couple of weeks tomorrow so won't be able to respond again for a while, but I really appreciate what everybody has said here. I feel better about myself and my place in the relationship, and feel more positive about what's to come, so thanks again.

MagicMarker

Dude, it's not your fault that she dropped out of school.. Seriously, that is just completely delusional.

Sorry man, but i have to say that you should stand up for yourself and not take the blame so easily. This woman obviously has issues that she doesn't want to face up to and just blames you instead for her own shortcomings.

Have you asked your friends why they acted as they did, i can't imagine them doing it for no reason what so ever.

COH

Whatever you decide to do with regard to your fiancé you should make a very conscious effort to get your mates back IMMEDIATELY! you'll end up seriously resenting her if you dont.

FACT

LegacyUser

She sounds like a manipulative insecure control-freak. And she's clearly playing you for a fool. You seem to have a 'bad boyfriend' complex. Basically, anytime you so much as divert your attention away from her to other things (mates, hobbies etc.) your neglecting her. A relationship like this WONT Last, mark my words. Unless your prepared to give everything up and commit to her 100% and even at that it won't be enough. She sounds like an emotional blackmailer. Avoid people like this at all costs because the more they think they can get away with the more they will.

I had a girlfriend of 18 months who used to do the same thing. At first she'd cry when I leave. She'd deman I text her every hour we weren't together. She demanded more and more of my time. Why did I stay with her? Because she did alot for me and I felt some strange debt. It was like she wanted to mother me. Give me money, food etc as long as I stuck to the condition that I didnt leave her. It was a miserable existence and I could never stand up to her because shed always cry and make life even more difficult.

Its not love and its not a healthy relationship. Save yourself time effort and regret now and end it, it'll be the BEST thing you ever did I promise you.

COH

Honestly man if I were in your situation I'd just get the hell out of dodge. Life is too short and you get no second chances

Harsh but true

Beruthiel

Reply113 wrote: »

but what happened between the two of us and my friends was that they didn't get on at all, and made it quite difficult for her. They excluded her from things, made her feel very self-conscious, and caused her to lose her confidence and self-esteem.

Oh no, I'm not buying that for one tiny second.
A person who has confidence and self esteem in the first place would not allow that to happen.
A person with confidence and self esteem would say to themselves, 'ok, so some of his mates don't like me, fair enough, not everyone clicks, I can't be loved by the whole world, I'm great so it's their loss'.

To suggest that they are the root cause to her problems is classic passive agressive behaviour:

Persons with dependent personality disorder lack energy and initiative and passively let others assume responsibility for major aspects of their lives.

She had been studying full time in college, half way through the course, having done really, really well in her summer exams, and the knock of not being accepted by my friends and being made to feel so uncomfortable, along with my carry-on around them caused her to be unable to study or concentrate on the course and she dropped out. Her confidence was shot.

Sorry, but again that's bullsh!t. If she flunked her course, then it's nobodies fault but her own.

This was the last straw and basically it was her or my friends. I felt that I had never given our relationship my full attention as, naturally enough, I liked socialising with these people, some of which I'd known for 10 years.

You know, it's quite possible to have a relationship with someone and still keep your friends. Ye are not tied at the hip and you can still go see your mates without her if she doesn't like them.
Never drop your friends for a partner, they were there before you met her and they are the ones who will be there if ye ever break up. To cut yourself off from them is a big mistake.

She's working again, but is still bitter about what she lost and I can understand where she's coming from as she may never get that career focus/path back again.

Gimme a break. If she's so bitter, let her get off her ass and re-do the course. If she really and truly wanted that career, then nothing would stop her from getting it. I can't believe you're buying this manipulation!

How Strange

+1, totally agree.

To me it seems like she's a passive agressive - when she can't get her own way or things don't go to her liking she projects the blame onto the OP.

I've seen nice easy going male friends get gf's just like this and they've turned from happy go lucky chaps into ass whipped monkeys.

Miss Fluff

How Strange wrote: »

+1, totally agree.

To me it seems like she's a passive agressive - when she can't get her own way or things don't go to her liking she projects the blame onto the OP.

I've seen nice easy going male friends get gf's just like this and they've turned from happy go lucky chaps into ass whipped monkeys.

+1, all your mates have not suddenly turned into anti-social freaks overnight.

Dont be at yourself

Don't be a doormat, get rid of her.

This is your first serious relationship, so perhaps you need a bit of perspective. To me, your fiance sounds like a stroppy, manipulative, high-maintenance, bossy wagon. Kick her to the curb now, or spend the rest of your life under her thumb apologising.

There are plenty of fish in the sea.