Demonic Possession

Pompey Magnus

I'm just wondering if Christians today still believe in demonic possession? I assume you all accept that back in the time of Jesus there definately were people who were inhabited by little devils and Jesus and his followers went around curing a few of them and I'm not aware of any particular instance in which Jesus removed all possessions on Earth so I can only conclude that they still occur today.

Reading some of the sympthoms in the Gospels it would sound to me that the people were suffering from epilepsy or mental illness, perhaps tourettes syndrome sometimes? These are genuine flaws with the body and would have existed 2,000 years ago so how would the disciples have been able to distinguish between a genuine case of demonic possession and a run of the mill epileptic fit or mentally ill person?

For example the boy in Mark 9:17 who had evil spirits in him. He would fall to the ground, foam at the mouth, grit his teeth, and become stiff. Now to me I would have said that the boy was either epileptic or diabetic and had low blood sugar levels, how would a disciple have identified that the boy was actually possessed?

Finally I wonder if Christian doctors ever diagnose a case of demon possession nowadays? I haven't heard of it, so I think Christians who believe in possessions should start demanding that all doctors, Christian or non-Christian, should be given training in diagnosing a patient who is infected with a devil. It could save vital time in helping a patient which would otherwise be wasted in giving useless insulin shots.

"Nurse, get me 12cc of Holy Water, STAT."

Seth Brundle

Sure doesn't the Catholic Church occasionally perform exorcisms & aren't these only done when there is conclusive evidence (in their eyes) of posession?

Pompey Magnus

kbannon wrote: »

Sure doesn't the Catholic Church occasionally perform exorcisms & aren't these only done when there is conclusive evidence (in their eyes) of posession?

Yes but what is the conclusive evidence? Levitation and heads rotating 360 degrees as in The Exorcist? What if they were presented with the boy described in Mark, we know for a fact that he was possessed with demons (because Jesus said so), from the description in Mark it sounds identical to a diabetic fit so would the Church refuse to exorcise the boy because they couldn't conclusively prove it was a possession? They have God given superpowers and should be using it at any given opportunity.

Seth Brundle

real evidence...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJbtAuunLvU

Pompey Magnus

I'm convinced now.

the locust

What about people who manifest demonically and thier voice changes... and they start talking as though a demon were talking through them.

Isnt that in the gospels - where jesus cast demons out of a man into a herd of pigs who ran into the lake and drown. The demons were speaking through the man saying 'what do you want with us Son of God?'

Clearly that would be more evidence of the demonic rather than an epileptic fit or something physically wrong.

I think if someone has a demon - cast it out in Jesus name

If someone needs healing .i.e. a chemical imbalance in thier brain or whatever - pray for healing.

Pompey Magnus

the locust wrote: »

What about people who manifest demonically and thier voice changes... and they start talking as though a demon were talking through them.

Isnt that in the gospels - where jesus cast demons out of a man into a herd of pigs who ran into the lake and drown. The demons were speaking through the man saying 'what do you want with us Son of God?'

Clearly that would be more evidence of the demonic rather than an epileptic fit or something physically wrong.

Now don't get me wrong, I know there are the obvious cases of demonic possession where a child's voice sounds deep and the child is floating around the room - there is obviously something odd going on there. What I am worried about are the less obvious case, where the patient is only suffering from a mild form of demonic possession, perhaps a Stage 1 possession in which it is just fits and perhaps a bit of cursing. It is the grey areas that concern me where it may not be possible to immediately diagnose that the patient has been infected with a bad case of the demons.

Should the doctor wait to see if the patient moves onto a Stage 2 or 3 possession (turning green and moving objects by power of thought) or should he avoid this by immediately referring the patient to a specialist (an exorcist) before the symptoms deteriorate further?

Asiaprod

Guys,
I am inclined to think that you need to take this to the spirituality forum if you are going to go into the ins and outs of the Ouija board and possession in general. I have had some exposure to the Ouija board and it is not something to play with lightly. It can in the wrong hands do a lot of harm
I will wait a little to see if any Christians respond, if they don't, I will myself see about having it moved.

PDN

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

I'm just wondering if Christians today still believe in demonic possession? I assume you all accept that back in the time of Jesus there definately were people who were inhabited by little devils and Jesus and his followers went around curing a few of them and I'm not aware of any particular instance in which Jesus removed all possessions on Earth so I can only conclude that they still occur today.

Yes, I believe that people can still be demonised today. It appears to have been more common at the time of Jesus, possibly because His incarnation, as the pivotal event in salvation history, triggered a lot of spiritual opposition.

Reading some of the sympthoms in the Gospels it would sound to me that the people were suffering from epilepsy or mental illness, perhaps tourettes syndrome sometimes? These are genuine flaws with the body and would have existed 2,000 years ago so how would the disciples have been able to distinguish between a genuine case of demonic possession and a run of the mill epileptic fit or mentally ill person?

For example the boy in Mark 9:17 who had evil spirits in him. He would fall to the ground, foam at the mouth, grit his teeth, and become stiff. Now to me I would have said that the boy was either epileptic or diabetic and had low blood sugar levels, how would a disciple have identified that the boy was actually possessed?

If you are prepared to make a medical diagnosis based on a few vague details in a book that you frequently claim to be historically inaccurate then I can only hope that your medical knowledge is better than your knowledge of biblical studies or church history.

There is a spiritual gift mentioned in the New Testament called "the discernment of spirits". I believe this is helpful in determining whether a problem is demonic or not.

Finally I wonder if Christian doctors ever diagnose a case of demon possession nowadays? I haven't heard of it, so I think Christians who believe in possessions should start demanding that all doctors, Christian or non-Christian, should be given training in diagnosing a patient who is infected with a devil. It could save vital time in helping a patient which would otherwise be wasted in giving useless insulin shots.

Ah, stop your trolling. If anyone was demanding that doctors act upon a belief that they don't share then you would be the first to start squealing about the unreasonableness of such demands.

kelly1

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

I'm just wondering if Christians today still believe in demonic possession? I assume you all accept that back in the time of Jesus there definately were people who were inhabited by little devils and Jesus and his followers went around curing a few of them and I'm not aware of any particular instance in which Jesus removed all possessions on Earth so I can only conclude that they still occur today.

Reading some of the sympthoms in the Gospels it would sound to me that the people were suffering from epilepsy or mental illness, perhaps tourettes syndrome sometimes? These are genuine flaws with the body and would have existed 2,000 years ago so how would the disciples have been able to distinguish between a genuine case of demonic possession and a run of the mill epileptic fit or mentally ill person?

For example the boy in Mark 9:17 who had evil spirits in him. He would fall to the ground, foam at the mouth, grit his teeth, and become stiff. Now to me I would have said that the boy was either epileptic or diabetic and had low blood sugar levels, how would a disciple have identified that the boy was actually possessed?

Finally I wonder if Christian doctors ever diagnose a case of demon possession nowadays? I haven't heard of it, so I think Christians who believe in possessions should start demanding that all doctors, Christian or non-Christian, should be given training in diagnosing a patient who is infected with a devil. It could save vital time in helping a patient which would otherwise be wasted in giving useless insulin shots.

"Nurse, get me 12cc of Holy Water, STAT."

If you're genuinely interested in learning about the reality of demonic possession, try read Fr. Gabriel Amorth's personal testimony.

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216032790&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-More-Stories-Gabriel-Amorth/dp/0898709172/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216032790&sr=1-2

Afaik, he's the chief vatican exorcist. I read the first book and it's a real eye opener in terms of showing how someone can become possessed and therefore how to avoid possession. It also deals with demonic influences and opression.

Malari

kelly1 wrote: »

If you're genuinely interested in learning about the reality of demonic possession, try read Fr. Gabriel Amorth's personal testimony.

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216032790&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-More-Stories-Gabriel-Amorth/dp/0898709172/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216032790&sr=1-2

Afaik, he's the chief vatican exorcist. I read the first book and it's a real eye opener in terms of showing how someone can become possessed and therefore how to avoid possession. It also deals with demonic influences and opression.

I heard a woman on newstalk yesterday, on David Norris' show, who claimed she was a white witch and she reckoned that every parish has to have a catholic priest who is trained in performing exorcisms! Is this true? I didn't believe another word that came out of her mouth so maybe she was misinformed.

kelly1

Malari wrote: »

I heard a woman on newstalk yesterday, on David Norris' show, who claimed she was a white witch and she reckoned that every parish has to have a catholic priest who is trained in performing exorcisms! Is this true? I didn't believe another word that came out of her mouth so maybe she was misinformed.

She probably meant every diocese. BTW, priests have to be given permission by the bishop to perform exorcisms.

Asiaprod

kelly1 wrote: »

BTW, priests have to be given permission by the bishop to perform exorcisms.

Can any priest do this? I thought that a priests had to be specially trained to perform these rites?

kelly1

Asiaprod wrote: »

Can any priest do this?

I thought that a priests had to be specially trained to perform these rites?

I think it would be very unwise of any priest to undertaken an exorcism unless he had received training from an experienced exorcist. The rookie exorcist wouldn't be used to the tactics employed by demons.

The Mad Hatter

Asiaprod wrote: »

Can any priest do this? I thought that a priests had to be specially trained to perform these rites?

I'm pretty sure you're right.

ryoishin

I brought this up before and was shot down for being supersticious! Nice to see it being discussed.


Yep special course in Rome, every diosece has one only known to the bishop. Technically does nt have to be a priest but you know yourself! Has to have a lifelong confession (thats a bad way of phrazing it) as there is the possibility of being possessed during the exorcism. I believe the reciting of Scripture and invoking the name and authority of Christ is used.

Asiaprod I be intersted in hearing your experiences!

There was a thing on tv years ago in turkey I think and this priest was exercising this girl, if it was nt real she deserved an oscar.

Apologise about the bad spelling.

JimiTime

Asiaprod wrote: »

I have had some exposure to the Ouija board and it is not something to play with lightly. It can in the wrong hands do a lot of harm

Just wondering what you mean by the above? i.e. what happened etc?

BTW:
I thought that you were an atheist? I know you are into Budhism, but you don't believe in the spirit realm is what I thought. Apologies if I'm completely wrong.

Asiaprod

JimiTime wrote: »

Just wondering what you mean by the above? i.e. what happened etc?

BTW:
I thought that you were an atheist? I know you are into Budhism, but you don't believe in the spirit realm is what I thought. Apologies if I'm completely wrong.

I do believe in spirits, I think there is a lot in this world that we do not understand. Buddhism has guardian spirits called shotenzenjin ( bodhisattva), and bad ones called shanshoshima.
I had a group of friends during the 80s that were very into the Ouija board. I thought it was great fun till one weekend we rented a cottage in Wexford for the weekend. We decided to get trashed and have a session. We had a young lady present that informed us that she had a spirit companion. We of course did not believe her and proceeded with our fun. To cut a long story short we had doors slamming, stuff falling of shelves, light going on and off, a horrible, horrible feeling of a very malevolent presence in the room. I got hit on the back of the head with a press door flying open for no reason and the temperature in the room dropping to freezing. I do not scare easily but I was terrified. I never touched it again, and wont. There is some stuff that we just do not know about.

kelly1

Asiaprod wrote: »

I do believe in spirits, I think there is a lot in this world that we do not understand. Buddhism has guardian spirits called shotenzenjin ( bodhisattva), and bad ones called shanshoshima.
I had a group of friends during the 80s that were very into the Ouija board. I thought it was great fun till one weekend we rented a cottage in Wexford for the weekend. We decided to get trashed and have a session. We had a young lady present that informed us that she had a spirit companion. We of course did not believe her and proceeded with our fun. To cut a long story short we had doors slamming, stuff falling of shelves, light going on and off, a horrible, horrible feeling of a very malevolent presence in the room. I got hit on the back of the head with a press door flying open for no reason and the temperature in the room dropping to freezing. I do not scare easily but I was terrified. I never touched it again, and wont. There is some stuff that we just do not know about.

Scary stuff.

The ouija board is a very common way to become possessed as Fr. Amorth's book will attest. Any malevolent spirits that we encounter can only be demons and not the souls of dead humans because the human souls of dead people can only be in Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. So we're not visited by our dead relatives at seances, but by demons impersonating the people they're trying to contact.

Basicall avoid ouija boards like the plague!

Bduffman

Asiaprod wrote: »

I do believe in spirits, I think there is a lot in this world that we do not understand. Buddhism has guardian spirits called shotenzenjin ( bodhisattva), and bad ones called shanshoshima.
I had a group of friends during the 80s that were very into the Ouija board. I thought it was great fun till one weekend we rented a cottage in Wexford for the weekend. We decided to get trashed and have a session. We had a young lady present that informed us that she had a spirit companion. We of course did not believe her and proceeded with our fun. To cut a long story short we had doors slamming, stuff falling of shelves, light going on and off, a horrible, horrible feeling of a very malevolent presence in the room. I got hit on the back of the head with a press door flying open for no reason and the temperature in the room dropping to freezing. I do not scare easily but I was terrified. I never touched it again, and wont. There is some stuff that we just do not know about.

But...you were pissed right?

Asiaprod

Bduffman wrote: »

But...you were pissed right?

No, I did not drink then;)

JimiTime

Asiaprod wrote: »

I do believe in spirits, I think there is a lot in this world that we do not understand. Buddhism has guardian spirits called shotenzenjin ( bodhisattva), and bad ones called shanshoshima.
I had a group of friends during the 80s that were very into the Ouija board. I thought it was great fun till one weekend we rented a cottage in Wexford for the weekend. We decided to get trashed and have a session. We had a young lady present that informed us that she had a spirit companion. We of course did not believe her and proceeded with our fun. To cut a long story short we had doors slamming, stuff falling of shelves, light going on and off, a horrible, horrible feeling of a very malevolent presence in the room. I got hit on the back of the head with a press door flying open for no reason and the temperature in the room dropping to freezing. I do not scare easily but I was terrified. I never touched it again, and wont. There is some stuff that we just do not know about.

Thanks for the clarification. Certainly sounded traumatic. I'd concur with anyone saying to stay clear of them. Defo demonic.

Dog Fan

I never went near an Ouija board. Group of friends wanted to go at one once, and I left them to it. They were all terrified afterwards. Must agree with Asia, there are some things we just don't know about.

Regarding possession - Padre Pio wrote about his being tormented by demons.
An explanation I heard was that he was a very holy figure in touch with his spiritual side, and was thus a target for the demons.

http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=1021

I feel that possession is a topic we usually don't want to get into except in an 'exorcist' or horror story type of way. the problem is that this leads some to experiment with things like Ouija boards, and I do feel they are really, really dangerous.

Dog Fan

By the way, any of you hear the story of the haunted room in Maynooth?

Must tell it sometime.

JoeB-

kelly1 wrote: »

If you're genuinely interested in learning about the reality of demonic possession, try read Fr. Gabriel Amorth's personal testimony.

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216032790&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-More-Stories-Gabriel-Amorth/dp/0898709172/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216032790&sr=1-2

Afaik, he's the chief vatican exorcist. I read the first book and it's a real eye opener in terms of showing how someone can become possessed and therefore how to avoid possession. It also deals with demonic influences and opression.

Glad to see you have some faith in Fr Amorth's ability as a exorcist and his ability to percieve demons. I see him as a crackpot who believes in magic and supernaturalism.

See my previous post about this guy
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53442358&postcount=5

Maybe you'll answer the question I asked in that thread now... in relation to Fr Amorths allegation that the leadership of the Catholic faith (including the pope) have become possessed?


QUOTE FROM FR AMORTH, THE CHIEF VATICAN EXCORIST!!!
Quote:
Fr. Amorth: The smoke of Satan has entered everywhere. Everywhere! Perhaps we were excluded from the audience with the Pope because they were afraid that such a large number of exorcists might succeed in chasing out the legions of demons that have installed themselves in the Vatican.

(The interviewers) 30 Days: You are joking, aren't you?

Fr. Amorth: It may seem like a joke, but I do not believe it is. I have no doubt about the fact that the demon tempts the authorities of the Church especially, just as he tempts every authority, those of politics and industry.
END QUOTE


So what say Catholics now to the infallability of the pope? Is it possible that the horrendous scandals and horrific child abuse were caused by the devil? Are good people being led astray?



And what about magic events?

http://www.fisheaters.com/amorth.html wrote:

Fr. Amorth: I recall an illiterate peasant who, during an exorcism, spoke to me only in English and I had to have an interpreter. There are people who manifest a superhuman strength, others who completely levitate from the ground and whom it is impossible even for several men to keep seated in their armchair. But it is only the context in which these phenomena occur which makes us speak of demonic possession.
[/quote/


Well there's clear evidence of magic.... I wonder why no-one has ever been proved possessed in a scientific setting?

Catholics are preying on the ignorance of peasents.

PDN

Joe, could you provide some source for your extraordinary claim about the pope or anyone else being possessed? The quote above simply says that they are tempted.

JoeB-

Quite simple PDN, no I can't... (because possession doesn't happen)

But re-read the Fr Amorth quote...
'because they were afraid that such a large number of exorcists might succeed in chasing out the legions of demons that have installed themselves in the Vatican.'

The use of the phrase 'that have installed themselves' seems to be crystal clear... the demons have installed themselves... and he is a senior exorcist.

The Catholics have themselves never demonstrated a possesion either... do you believe that the Catholics can demonstrate a 'leviating' person? Despite the fact that they say such things happen? Do you believe people can levitate? Do you even accept that the pope could be possessed?

Can you explain the systemic abuse of children without resorting to possession by the devil? For more than 500 years the Catholics tortured and killed heratics, is this what Jesus would have done? Is this what God advises? (Clearly god does advise this but what about 'do not kill')

Why didn't these men of God stand up and say that torture and child abuse is wrong? Why did the catholic church allow it's genelogical records to be examined by the Nazis even when they knew that the Nazis would use them to decide who should be put to death? Are they in any way complicit? Should they be charged with war crimes? or colluding with an evil regime?



Full interview with Amorth is on
http://www.fisheaters.com/amorth.html

which includes his claim that people can fly and that the pope and senior officials are sharing the vatican with 'installed' demons.

thebaldsoprano

There are some interesting insights into Ouija Boards in Darren Brown's book 'Tricks of the Mind'. Needless to say, he doesn't believe in them.

He goes into a bit more depth than is possible here, but the long and short of it is that it plays on the same suggestibility that he plays on for his tricks.

santing

Yes demons do exist, and so does demon possession. In the western world we have eliminated demons by making them have goat's feet and horns on their head, but that doesn't mean they disappeared. The influence of Christianity in society has made the rate of demon possession less than what you find in the New Testament, but that is only true for the western world, and the christian advantage is quickly disappearing in our society.

Ireland, however, has always stayed under the dominion of demons imho, but that's another story.

A good article to start with about demons is:
http://www.rbc.org/questionsDetail.aspx?id=45752&Topic=714

thebaldsoprano

santing wrote: »

Ireland, however, has always stayed under the dominion of demons imho, but that's another story.

Really? On what evidence do you base this?

Just out of interest, are demons responsible for agnosticism?

santing wrote: »

A good article to start with about demons is:
http://www.rbc.org/questionsDetail.aspx?id=45752&Topic=714

Did you check the references in that article? No attempt was made to differentiate between physical and mental illness in them.

Galvasean

santing wrote: »

the christian advantage is quickly disappearing in our society.

Odd that. It seems to me that it is Christians that are more likely to be possessed by demons.
I've never seen any atheists/agnostics become affected by the ouija boards. Maybe people who believe in spirits/demons etc. are more succeptable to such attacks?

Tim_Murphy

Galvasean wrote: »

Odd that. It seems to me that it is Christians that are more likely to be possessed by demons.
I've never seen any atheists/agnostics become affected by the ouija boards. Maybe people who believe in spirits/demons etc. are more succeptable to such attacks?

Good point.

Pompey Magnus

Galvasean wrote: »

Odd that. It seems to me that it is Christians that are more likely to be possessed by demons.
I've never seen any atheists/agnostics become affected by the ouija boards. Maybe people who believe in spirits/demons etc. are more succeptable to such attacks?

But as we atheist/agnostics are already heading for the big inferno they have no need to work on us, it'd be like preaching to the choir.

Galvasean

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

But as we atheist/agnostics are already heading for the big inferno they have no need to work on us, it'd be like preaching to the choir.

They could still use us as a means to gain access to the physical word.

santing

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Really? On what evidence do you base this?

Mainly on personal experience - fear for demons, and superstition, and also Yeats would be an example of an "occult" writer.

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Just out of interest, are demons responsible for agnosticism?
Demons will promote anything except the true faith

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Did you check the references in that article? No attempt was made to differentiate between physical and mental illness in them.

It is a short article. It does warn against equating mental illnesses as demon possession, and it states that demon possession is "rare" in our days. But indeed, on reflection, there should be better Christian articles available on this topic.

thebaldsoprano

santing wrote: »

Mainly on personal experience - fear for demons, and superstition

Yeah, fair enough. Superstition and the like wouldn't do the trick for me though. Just different ways of seeing I guess.

santing wrote: »

and also Yeats would be an example of an "occult" writer.

I'll assume here that by 'occult writer' you're referring to a writer who dabbled in the occult rather than an actual occult writer like Alastair Crowley and the like.
Many people in the arts dabbled in the occult and I don't doubt for a moment that there may be considerable psychological benefits/harm done from performing these rituals. My point is that it's likely that our own mind is doing the work rather than demons.

santing wrote: »

It is a short article. It does warn against equating mental illnesses as demon possession, and it states that demon possession is "rare" in our days. But indeed, on reflection, there should be better Christian articles available on this topic.

I wasn't questioning the length of the article, just that the references provided in it don't back up the arguments made.

For example, the first paragraph claims that the Gospels distinguish between physical and mental illness. If you read the supporting references, the only arguable differentiation is 'seizures'. However, seizures in my opinion would point to something like epilepsy rather than what most of us would regard of as a mental illness such as schizophrenia.

santing

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

My point is that it's likely that our own mind is doing the work rather than demons.

I agree. And when our own minds binds us to occult practices, hatred, fear etc. than why should demons be bothered ... they have more work to do!

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

For example, the first paragraph claims that the Gospels distinguish between physical and mental illness. If you read the supporting references, the only arguable differentiation is 'seizures'. However, seizures in my opinion would point to something like epilepsy rather than what most of us would regard of as a mental illness such as schizophrenia.

I think that is clearly stated in the first reference. There is distinction made between (1) those suffering severe pain, (2) the demon-possessed, (3) those having seizures, and (4) the paralyzed.

Demon possession can lead to having severe pain, having seizures and being paralysed, but they are here clearly marked as distinct cases

thebaldsoprano

santing wrote: »

I agree. And when our own minds binds us to occult practices, hatred, fear etc. than why should demons be bothered ... they have more work to do!

Now, I'll be first to admit I know very little about demons, but what might they be getting up to while their not possessing people?

santing wrote: »

I think that is clearly stated in the first reference. There is distinction made between (1) those suffering severe pain, (2) the demon-possessed, (3) those having seizures, and (4) the paralyzed.

None of this relates to mental illness apart from arguably 'demon-possessed'. Mentally ill people aren't possessed by demons, they're just mentally ill.

santing wrote: »

Demon possession can lead to having severe pain, having seizures and being paralysed, but they are here clearly marked as distinct cases

I'm not sure how this relates to the argument at all.

Phototoxin

diabetic fit

You mean epileptic fit. A person with low blood sugar may appear drunk but then will collapse and possibly go unconscious unless treated but wont be flopping around.

santing

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Now, I'll be first to admit I know very little about demons, but what might they be getting up to while their not possessing people?

Demons are involved in carrying out Satan’s evil plans (2 Cor.11:15). What Satan is said to be doing is their work directly.

1. Demons promote idolatry (Lev.17:7; Deut.32:17; Ps.106:36-38).
2. Demons are active in hindering the spiritual progress of Christians every way they can. They are deliberate and organized in these attempts (Eph.6:10-12).
3. Demons promote false teaching (1 Tim.4:1).
4. Demons can possess and afflict people.
5. Demons promote selfishness and division amongst Christians (James 3:13-16).

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

None of this relates to mental illness apart from arguably 'demon-possessed'. Mentally ill people aren't possessed by demons, they're just mentally ill.

Two examples of mental disorders. The first with symptomps of withdrawal, nudity, filth, irrational behavior, the second suicidal behaviour.

Mar 5:2-13 ESV And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit. (3) He lived among the tombs. And no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain, (4) for he had often been bound with shackles and chains, but he wrenched the chains apart, and he broke the shackles in pieces. No one had the strength to subdue him. (5) Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. (6) And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him. (7) And crying out with a loud voice, he said, "What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me." (8) For he was saying to him, "Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!" (9) And Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" He replied, "My name is Legion, for we are many." (10) And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. (11) Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, (12) and they begged him, saying, "Send us to the pigs; let us enter them." (13) So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered the pigs, and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and were drowned in the sea.

And

Mar 9:17-27 ESV And someone from the crowd answered him, "Teacher, I brought my son to you, for he has a spirit that makes him mute. (18) And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid. So I asked your disciples to cast it out, and they were not able." (19) And he answered them, "O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him to me." (20) And they brought the boy to him. And when the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy, and he fell on the ground and rolled about, foaming at the mouth. (21) And Jesus asked his father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood. (22) And it has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us." (23) And Jesus said to him, "'If you can'! All things are possible for one who believes." (24) Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, "I believe; help my unbelief!" (25) And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him and never enter him again." (26) And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out, and the boy was like a corpse, so that most of them said, "He is dead." (27) But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.

thebaldsoprano

santing wrote: »

Demons are involved in carrying out Satan’s evil plans (2 Cor.11:15). What Satan is said to be doing is their work directly.

1. Demons promote idolatry (Lev.17:7; Deut.32:17; Ps.106:36-38).
2. Demons are active in hindering the spiritual progress of Christians every way they can. They are deliberate and organized in these attempts (Eph.6:10-12).
3. Demons promote false teaching (1 Tim.4:1).
4. Demons can possess and afflict people.
5. Demons promote selfishness and division amongst Christians (James 3:13-16).

Thanks for this, didn't know that at all, they sound like a charming bunch

Re the two examples, they're not exactly helping your case.
They both show Jesus driving out spirits.

I made the point that the references in you original article fail to differentiate between demonic possession and mental illness.

Showing me another two examples of demonic possession isn't doing this either.

santing

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

I made the point that the references in you original article fail to differentiate between demonic possession and mental illness.

Showing me another two examples of demonic possession isn't doing this either.

I agree that the original article fails to back up the distinction it makes between demon possession and ordinary physical and mental illness with Biblical references. Since I cannot change the original article, I gave you some examples myself.

A better article on mental illness versus demonic possession (in casu: schizophrenia) is found at: http://www.schizophrenia.com/media/strength.htm

thebaldsoprano

Ah, this looks a bit more like it, cheers!

boringteetotal

Yes I believe demonic possession does exist.
I believe Hitler was demon possessed or certaintly highly influenced by satan.

Mental illness needs respect and love, and I certanintly would not label it as demonic. I believe fear is a significant factor in the deveopment of mental illness,

but here is good news from God:

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Just as Jesus healed blind, possessed, and sick people 2000 years ago the power of his love and truth is still healing people today.

I am careful to avoid the charismatic movement because somtimes the Holy Spirit is not truly operating in some cases...an extreme example is Todd Bentley.

DerKomissar

was that real?!

wow. i never seens like that real evidence before.

was this on the news? im gonna showall my friends htis. really scary

Fanny Cradock

DerKomissar wrote: »

was that real?!

wow. i never seens like that real evidence before.

was this on the news? im gonna showall my friends htis. really scary

Are you drunk?

Asiaprod

DerKomissar wrote: »

was that real?!

wow. i never seens like that real evidence before.

was this on the news? im gonna showall my friends htis. really scary

Lucky you are new here or I would infract you. Before you post here again make sure to read the charter explaining the required etiquette for this forum.