Employer recommends against Dreamweaver

Placebo

Hey Guys,
Employers a bit against dreamweaver, although i understand the case is true for plain html mails for E-mail, dreamweaver starts adding css etc etc,

Do people design completely with just notepad? the plain txt browsing is starting to hurt my eyes, is there any other editors similar to eclipse for color coding html ? i guess i code just use dreamweaver code side and not touch the design bit?

thanks

Tails142

UltraEdit is a good text editor.

If I was you I would just make it in Dreamweaver and then copy the code out and edit out any bits you dont want. Would just work faster IMO

If you boss doesnt like this idea then he's either being akward or wants to make sure you know how to write HTML...

RobertFoster

Placebo wrote: »

i guess i code just use dreamweaver code side and not touch the design bit?

That's what I do. I dunno why really, there's probably much nicer editors that are less of a resource hog out there.

Someone recommended Notepad++ before, but I've never tried it. It supports a few languages, but I dunno if it has Site Manager like Dreamweaver.

Placebo

thanks guys, i suppose hes trying to make sure i know it,
but honestly reading 500 lines of <td> tags burns your eyes. specially in that notepad font.

forbairt

Placebo wrote: »

thanks guys, i suppose hes trying to make sure i know it,
but honestly reading 500 lines of <td> tags burns your eyes. specially in that notepad font.

EEK td tags ???


I'm using Komodo ..

In the past I've used crimson edit ... eclipse ... and a few others ... all depends on what you're after

there is also http://www.kompozer.net/ in case that interests you

Placebo

thanks folks
good few here
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/05/07/35-useful-source-code-editors-reviewed/

Malice

Placebo wrote: »

Hey Guys,
Employers a bit against dreamweaver, although i understand the case is true for plain html mails for E-mail, dreamweaver starts adding css etc etc,

Do people design completely with just notepad? the plain txt browsing is starting to hurt my eyes, is there any other editors similar to eclipse for color coding html ? i guess i code just use dreamweaver code side and not touch the design bit?

thanks

If your boss is forcing you to use Notepad you have my sympathy. There are plenty of other options out there! Being left with Notepad is a cruel punishment indeed.

When I was getting to grips with HTML I used UltraEdit. It's a bit expensive but I've used it on and off for about seven years so I've probably gotten my money's worth at this stage . By having to write every tag yourself you will learn things a lot faster than using WYSIWYG software like Dreamweaver. Having said that, I use Dreamweaver from time to time. It's quite useful for knocking up ideas quickly.

As others have said, your boss could just be ensuring that you know your stuff though!

Placebo

well im not really a fan of WYSIWG, as nothing is ever what you see is what you get on that , at all, i only like the idea of quick preview !
i like notepad++ , gonna stick to that


thanks folks

Malice

Placebo wrote: »

i only like the idea of quick preview !

Don't forget that you can open your HTML script in your browser and your editor and the same time. Then it's just a simple Alt+Tab to the browser and hit F5 to refresh the page with whatever your changes are. It might not be as instantaneous as Dreamweaver but it should still be pretty fast .

p

Sounds like you've got a silly boss. It's a bad sign when you're boss is dictacting ot you what editor to use!

Try Aptana studio - it's a great IDE, based on eclipse but aimed at web dev.

I'd still try have a discussion about Dreamweaver though, it's very useful if you know how to use it. Some people are just a little misinformed about it for historical reasons.

conordarcy

just use dreamweaver if you've already got it. Work in code view. you can jump into design view to get an idea of how it'll look. You can use code hints to save you typing everything out in notepad. saves alot of time and different parts of the code are colour coded too making it easier to work with. Notepad would break me in minutes.

zAbbo

I like Coda myself, has nice FTP fuctions as well.

There are many other syntax highlighting apps, use whatever one you like...

The code view from DW, is essentially Homesite, of which there were and still are many alternatives

BRENSH

Notepad++ is a great option in my opinion. I have heard of a javascript editor using netbeans which is kinda cool too. It seems to be very intuitive like it understand the nature of the languages.
Anyway notepad++ seems to be the way to go. Best of all its free. The problem with dreamweaver is that its rendering engine has flaws in my opinion. Of course notepadd++ is free. Its a really neat package with support for decades of languages.

seamus

I don't use dreamweaver any more, but I used to find it good for troubleshooting layout issues. It can be tough to luck at hundreds of lines to find an unclosed tag or an extra closing tag, but in Dreamweaver you just select the errant div/table and the relevant code is highlighted.

I liked split view

Although Notepad++ is the win now.

colm_c

TBH you should learn HTML first before you go to dreamweaver, even then by hand is always going to be better than by dreamweaver.

The only exception to this would be to edit some huge f-off table.

There are lots of editors out there for free or very cheap, textedit, editplus, Coda & Textmate are very good.

turgon

Placebo wrote: »

500 lines of <td> tags

What sort of crazy site has 500 td tags?!!

axer

turgon wrote: »

What sort of crazy site has 500 td tags?!!

maybe a website that displays information in tabular format? 100 rows with 4 columns? 50 rows with 10 columns?

OP also take a look at pspad which is free. I am also using WeBuilder 2008. It has autocomplete and context help along with all the normal good stuff (including FTP). Its 50 yo yos though.

Placebo

thanks guys, i know html, i just found it easy to see where content resided in which cell, as visual part makes it easy to see, i never used the preset buttons for anything really.

Need to use tables for email templates and div's have compat issues.
infact i dont think he likes divs either,

good practice anyway !

The Mighty Ken

There's nothing wrong with using Dreamweaver if it improves your workflow. As long as your mark-up is properly formed, semantic, accessible and easy to maintain then it doesn't matter what tools you use.

OP, if you're looking for a pure text editor, then I'd recommend EditPlus. I'm on Mac and use Coda which I find quite good.

forbairt

Placebo wrote: »

Need to use tables for email templates and div's have compat issues.
infact i dont think he likes divs either,

Oh god tell me about it I hate newsletters for that very reason. Its one thing having your browser suite set up for testing its another when you've got to check all the web email apps .. as well as the desktop clients. UG

Creamy Goodness

Unix.
vi for viewing.
nedit for editing.

MacOS:
Coda
Smultron

Windows
Crimson Editor

nice1franko

I'm another fan of notepad++. It's much better than editplus IMO.

seamus

Placebo wrote: »

infact i dont think he likes divs either

Ugh. Well ignore that
A manager in our place was explaining to some managers in another department how we had decided against CSS layouts for an application because they were worried about quality/compatibility issues and how table layouts were just that bit better. Despite the fact that we only use one browser and all machines are identical.

I didn't want to pipe up and tell him that I'd already rewritten the whole thing using CSS.

Malice

Tables are fine when they are just used as intended - to display data in a grid. Problems only occur when people use them to control a whole page layout.

seamus wrote:

A manager in our place was explaining to some managers in another department how we had decided against CSS layouts for an application because they were worried about quality/compatibility issues and how table layouts were just that bit better.

I don't suppose the manager explained why he felt tables were better?

seamus

malice_ wrote: »

Tables are fine when they are just used as intended - to display data in a grid. Problems only occur when people use them to control a whole page layout.

I don't suppose the manager explained why he felt tables were better?

It was an off-the-cuff remark but I got the impression that he just doesn't trust CSS layouts. He's an ex-programmer so I don't think he's actually looked at HTML standards in a while, so still considers CSS to be "new".

egan007

Have been using Text pad for 10years now and find it just great (and free to try - permanently) I have an expensive site management tool called windows explorer....

Malice

It was an off-the-cuff remark but I got the impression that he just doesn't trust CSS layouts. He's an ex-programmer so I don't think he's actually looked at HTML standards in a while, so still considers CSS to be "new".

Well that's better than someone who blatantly doesn't have a clue just regurgitating something they were told once upon a time .

A couple of years ago I tried to explain the concept of refactoring to a manager. I thought he understood it but unfortunately it became his pet buzz word. It meant that for a few months along with "bespoke", "going forward", "paradigm", "leverage" and other words, we had to endure refactoring of our responsibilities or refactoring of the team layouts :mad:.

PixelTrawler

I used textpad for all my handcoding and visual studio 2008 for building master pages - code view only though except switching to it to setup events etc

p

nice1franko wrote: »

I'm another fan of notepad++. It's much better than editplus IMO.

Okay - notepad++ is a neat little editor I use it every day. However, I have to say, no professional web developer should be using notepad++ for day-to-day web development.

There's much better tools out there that will save you time, money and will generally improve your workflow.

axer

Placebo wrote: »

thanks guys, i know html, i just found it easy to see where content resided in which cell, as visual part makes it easy to see, i never used the preset buttons for anything really.

Need to use tables for email templates and div's have compat issues.
infact i dont think he likes divs either,

good practice anyway !

Take a look at pspad. It will reformat the html into nice readable html (indented).

adm

Does homesite come with dreamweaver these days?
It used too and its a nice editor (not perfect but good enough)

nice1franko

p wrote: »

Okay - notepad++ is a neat little editor I use it every day. However, I have to say, no professional web developer should be using notepad++ for day-to-day web development.

There's much better tools out there that will save you time, money and will generally improve your workflow.

Yeah fairy nuff... I only do bits n pieces of html and mostly Java and Javascript.

The Mighty Ken

adm wrote: »

Does homesite come with dreamweaver these days?
It used too and its a nice editor (not perfect but good enough)

Macromedia bought Homesite from Allaire Software a good few years ago and packaged it with Dreamweaver. To the best of my knowledge it's been fully integrated with Dreamweaver now - i.e. the Dreamweaver text editor is an evolved version of Homesite.

T-max

Yes, Homesite is integrated into Dreamweaver and actually when using dreamweaver in split mode (Code/Design) window it is a gift to update data in tables.

Teh Russ

I've just been playing with the beta of Dreamweaver CS4 - the design-time stuff is now far, far better as it uses a proper rendering engine (I think it uses WebKit, as used in Safari and Konqueror), and the interface has been totally revamped. Much, much nicer.

I have no problem with DW - it's come on in leaps and bounds from its earlier incarnations. The design features are useful for the basic blocking-out of sites, and the code view is great. It doesn't even put in all that additional crap into the code that the old versions were infamous for!

heggie

how does it handly CSS? is it anywhere near a wysiwyg editor for CSS?

p

heggie wrote: »

how does it handly CSS? is it anywhere near a wysiwyg editor for CSS?

Define WYSIWYG

It is an it isn't. You certainly could use it like you'd use Illustrator or something, but it will use absolute positioning for everything, and generally not be very flexible. However, if you use the WYSIWYG as a viewer, and edit all the CSS properties through the CSS panel, applying classes etc... then you can produce well coded sites that work very well.

It's not at the stage where a beginner could just 'draw' a site in it, and it would all work well, though to be honest, I think that's more down to the nature of CSS than anything else.

heggie

so... the same as DW CS3 then ?!

p

heggie wrote: »

so... the same as DW CS3 then ?!

Oh yea, there's no major differences between CS3 and CS4.

I think CSS itself will have to become more mature before we see a better WYSIWYG editor again.

NullZer0

Textmate

squibs

I love DW's code editor, but as a wysiwyg viewer it sucks. The rendering engine falls over even with standards compliant css-layout code. I'll have sites that look fine in ie5-7, firefox, opera, safari, etc. - but they look like a Dali painting in the DW design view.