Facelifted 3 series

E92

Pics are available here.

Styling wise it adapts a lot from the 7 series. It looks a lot better than before, closer to the Coupé in terms of the grille and light cluster design, with obvious draws from the 7 series as well.

It will be available with the new iDrive system from the 7 series. ConnectDrive will be an option too.

But the big news, as always with BMW facelifts, concerns under the bonnet.

The 335i will join the M3 as only the second BMW to have the option of a DSG type gearbox, or DCT as BMW prefers to call it.

The 318d, which will probably be the biggest seller here will be offered with a 6 speed automatic for the first time. The 320d will be offered with 4 wheel drive in the continent for the very first time too. Somehow I don't see it finding too many buyers here even if they were to sell it here. The 330d will have the new N57 all aluminium diesel which just made its debut in the all new F01 7 series. Which means 245 bhp and 383 lb ft of torque. It will average no less than 49.6 mpg apparently, which is good enough for 20% VRT and €290 road tax when it arrives here. That is phenomenal for a 245 bhp 3.0 6 pot. All other models will offer further reductions in CO2 compared with the outgoing model, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 318d makes it into 14% VRT and the 318i makes it into 16% VRT, since they miss these bands by 3 and 2 g/km at the moment respectively.

But the real breakthrough is the 330d BluePerformance, because it will be the first ever car on sale to meet the Euro 6 standards not due in until 2014. It is intended to rival Merc's Bluetec models which won't be seen here for quite some time yet because we think CO2 is the only pollutant cars produce:rolleyes:.

What this means is that it will be the only diesel car on sale that matches Euro 4 petrols for Nitrous Oxide emissions. Which in turn is more than 3 times lower than the current Euro 4 diesel limit, and even the Euro 5 limit is more than twice as high on NOx than Euro 6. No other diesel in Europe comes even close to the cleanliness of the 330d Blue Performance.

So this is big progress, because we at last have a diesel that is as clean as petrols were required to be in 2005.

Obviously the rest of the facelifted 3 series range will meet Euro 5, meaning that this will be the second BMW to offer an entire range of Euro 5 direct injection petrols. The 316i is dead, so there will be 5 petrols and 5 diesels, starting with the 143 bhp 318i and 318d rising up to the 306 bhp 335i. Surprisingly BMW has said nothing about the much talked 323d, though as I've pointed out here before the 325d does everything the proposed 323d does already with the refinement advantages of 6 cylinders thrown in for good measure.

What do people think of the looks?

copacetic

looks as in all the spy pics, much better from both front and back. new idrive system with hdd built in sounds good but will be massively overpriced here. otherwise interior changes are very minor and hasn't caught them up to audi or merc unless you go with idrive. very dissapointed not to see a 323d..

peasant

E92 wrote: »

What do people think of the looks?

Still a bit too clunky for my liking, but a big improvement on the current lines.
The big kidney takes some getting used to ...

Zonda999

I think it looks slightly more aggressive than before, definately more like the 5 and 7 series.From the back especially it looks exactly like the 5 series (but less like a mitsubishi carisma:D, i have to say:rolleyes:)
As impressive as the 330d blueperformance sounds, it would be an amazing achievement to get the 318d into the 14% vrt bracket, thats in an executive saloon, not a supermini!!100euro road tax in a BMW!!
Back on the 330d blueperformance again, what will that be costing over here??

copacetic

there won't be any changes to vrt bands for 4 cylinders as far as I can tell.
there were no rumours of changes to 318d or 318i engines either.

from the press release:

BMW 318d:
CO2 emissions according to EU: 123 g/km

BMW 318i:
CO2 emissions according to EU: 142 g/km

Zonda999

copacetic wrote: »

there won't be any changes to vrt bands for 4 cylinders as far as I can tell.
there were no rumours of changes to 318d or 318i engines either.

from the press release:

BMW 318d:
CO2 emissions according to EU: 123 g/km

BMW 318i:
CO2 emissions according to EU: 142 g/km

Thats odd.I heard something from the uk a few months back that it was bmws intention to get the 318d under 120g/km of co2.I suppose that was more to do with the propsed changes to the c-charge in london.Will cars emitting under 120g still be free in future after boris's intervention??

Gandalf23

I'm probably in the minority here but I much prefer the "current" shape ...




... than the "facelifted" shape ...




I think the current 3 series shape is as close to perfection as a car shape can get.

But having said that, there's not a huge difference ... this is not a major facelift.

E92

peasant wrote: »

Still a bit too clunky for my liking, but a big improvement on the current lines.

Pretty much what I thought myself. The current one looks so bad compared to the facelift I must confess.

Zonda999 wrote: »

it would be an amazing achievement to get the 318d into the 14% vrt bracket, thats in an executive saloon, not a supermini!!100euro road tax in a BMW!!
Back on the 330d blueperformance again, what will that be costing over here??

BMW only need to find a way of shaving off 3 g/km from the 318d, and then it would be a band A car. If they could shave off 2 g/km from the 318i that would get into 16% VRT:eek:.

One of the more interesting things is that BMW doesn't need AdBlue to get its diesels, even in the 7 series through Euro 5. There were threads on this forum before where people, including myself I think that reckoned only small cars would get away without AdBlue for Euro 5, and that even the smallest BMWs would need to use AdBlue. Fortunately AdBlue won't be arriving yet for BMW diesel owners.

I have no idea what the BluePerformance version of the 330d costs over the standard 330d, but I do know that the premium for it over the regular version is a premium that most diesels will be charging once Euro 6 comes along, and that's why I've been saying for some time now that the diesel sales boom is over in Europe, because diesel cars will be getting dearer and the long overdue tougher emissions standards for diesels will result in some of the CO2 emissions advantage over petrols being lost. So you'll be paying more and getting less of an mpg improvement too.

copacetic wrote: »

very dissapointed not to see a 323d..

The 330d will offer €290 road tax. The CO2 for it should be somewhere around 150 g/km, based on the 5.7 l/100 km average fuel consumption BMW claims it will do. With the lighter 123d almost in 20% VRT and the big improvements in CO2 from the brand new 6 pot diesel I don't see any need for a 323d. BMW already has a 325d that does everything a 323d would do but with 6 cylinder noise and refinement. They haven't said they won't offer a 323d btw, though their official literature only mentions 5 diesels and 5 petrols, and the 330d engine, as well as the 318d and 320d, but I think we can safely say it is strange that if they are going to offer a 323d that they didn't say a word about it in their press release today, when they were able to mention the unchanged 318i, 318d and 335i which will retain the same engines.

Zonda999

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I'm probably in the minority here but I much prefer the "current" shape ...




... than the "facelifted" shape ...




I think the current 3 series shape is as close to perfection as a car shape can get.

But having said that, there's not a huge difference ... this is not a major facelift.

I think your first picture is one of the coupe rather than than the pre-facelift saloon.I thought the front is slightly different on the current coupe(and convertible) and saloon and estate??

Gandalf23

E92 wrote: »

The current one looks so bad compared to the facelift I must confess.

Yep, I'm definitely in the minority here!!!

Why do you think this E92? I absolutely love the current shape, and the facelife does not make the car look massively different.

Gandalf23

Zonda999 wrote: »

I think your first picture is one of the coupe rather than than the pre-facelift saloon.I thought the front is slightly different on the current coupe(and convertible) and saloon and estate??

Might be.

Could someone put directly comparable pics up please? It would be interesting to have direct comparisons.

Gandalf23

OK, I think this is a direct saloon comparison ...


Current 3 series saloon...




Facelifted 3 series saloon ...




I still prefer the current shape.

E92

Zonda999 wrote: »

Thats odd.I heard something from the uk a few months back that it was bmws intention to get the 318d under 120g/km of co2.I suppose that was more to do with the propsed changes to the c-charge in london.Will cars emitting under 120g still be free in future after boris's intervention??

No, the Congestion charge will continue to be a charge on congestion.

They made some fairly public noises that they reckoned they could get a 318d under 120 g/km. They said they were "confident" they could do so. Interestingly they said today that all models should offer an improvement in CO2 and mpg.

In the UK cars that get under 120 g/km are liable for 13% company car tax, versus the usual 15% minimum for petrols and 18% minimum for diesels.

So even with the congestion charge change, it would clearly be hugely beneficial for BMW UK to get the 318d under 121 g/km. After all the X5 diesels were originally over 225 g/km even with EfficientDynamics but BMW UK persuaded BMW HQ in Munich to change and hence even the worst model now does 216 g/km for CO2.

copacetic

thats the current coupe again

E92

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Current 3 series saloon...

Nope, that's still a Coupé.

Below is the current saloon:

Gandalf23

The current saloon back and side ...



The Facelifted back and side ...




I have to say lads, I still prefer the current shape.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

. BMW already has a 325d that does everything a 323d would do but with 6 cylinder noise and refinement.

to look at it the other way a 323d would replace the 325d and would be cheaper. 6 cylinder 'noise and refinement' is an oxymoron in a diesel imo.

Zonda999

Gandalf23 wrote: »

The current saloon back and side ...



The Facelifted back and side ...




I have to say lads, I still prefer the current shape.

Will that cool double exhaust thing be on your basic 318i

E92

copacetic wrote: »

to look at it the other way a 323d would replace the 325d and would be cheaper. 6 cylinder 'noise and refinement' is an oxymoron in a diesel imo.

Twin sequential turbos ain't cheap. BMW charges €1,050 more for the 123d over the 125i in Germany. Meanwhile BMW asks €200 more for the 525d over the 525i in Germany, and both these cars have the same petrol engine.

Whatever about refinement(it should be vastly superior just on laws of physics alone), the 6 cylinder diesels offer a vastly superior noise over 4 pot diesels IMO. I even prefer 6 pot diesel noise over 4 pot petrol noise!

Stevie Dakota

Looks like they have sorted all the weak points, looks much better IMO.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Twin sequential turbos ain't cheap. BMW charges €1,050 more for the 123d over the 125i in Germany. Meanwhile BMW asks €200 more for the 525d over the 525i in Germany, and both these cars have the same petrol engine.

Whatever about refinement(it should be vastly superior just on laws of physics alone), the 6 cylinder diesels offer a vastly superior noise over 4 pot diesels IMO. I even prefer 6 pot diesel noise over 4 pot petrol noise!

why diesel to petrol price comparison E?
Are you saying that they would price the 323d above the 325d?


not sure i get why you can talk up the 123d great style on some threads and then imply the engine is pointless on others?

Matt Simis

Im in that minority too regarding new 7 and 3 series, Ive liked all the prior Bangle designs [runs for door ] Engines sound nice though.

E92

copacetic wrote: »

why diesel to petrol price comparison E?
Are you saying that they would price the 323d above the 325d?


not sure i get why you can talk up the 123d great style on some threads and then imply the engine is pointless on others?

Because you said a 323d would be cheaper, and you put it in bold to make sure I wouldn't miss it, remember?

I never implied anything of the sort about the 23d engine being "pointless". Rather it is less good than the 25d because it is physically impossible to make 4 cylinders as smooth as straight 6s and because I much prefer the quieter, more cultured sound of 6 cylinder engines. That doesn't make it "pointless". The 123d is supposed to offer hot hatch performance with 54.3 mpg thrown in for good measure. Refinement is the last thing on the minds of any hot hatch buyer, therefore my point about the better refinement of the 6 pot engine is pointless for that car.The 4 cylinder engine probably weighs less too, so that again is an advantage for a fast hatchback because means the car can be more agile and be more fun to drive. The 3 series is supposed to be an executive saloon. Refinement is much more in these cars, since they are often high mileage cars, therefore thew added refinement of 6 cylinders is an advantage. The handling is also less important, making the weight advantage less important too.

Thus an engine that may be ideal for one car may be anything but for another;).

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Because you said a 323d would be cheaper, and you put it in bold to make sure I wouldn't miss it, remember?

yes, but than the 325d. you were comparing the 23d with various petrol engines saying it was dearer. Far from comparing like with like.

Again, I did indeed say it would be cheaper, are you actually disagreeing? You haven't said.

Not sure I have ever seen a bmw fan say 'refinement' was more important than handling in a 3 series before.

E92

Do you read my posts at all?

Because I compared the price premium of the 123d over the 125i and the price premium of the 525d vs the 525i. Both the 125i and 525i have exactly the same petrol engine, yet BMW feels the need to charge 123d buyers more for that engine over the 125i's engine than it does for 525d buyers over the 525i's engine, which is exactly the same engine as the 125i's engine.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Do you read my posts at all?

Because I compared the price premium of the 123d over the 125i and the price premium of the 525d vs the 525i. Both the 125i and 525i have exactly the same petrol engine, yet BMW feels the need to charge 123d buyers more for that engine over the 125i's engine than it does for 525d buyers over the 525i's engine, which is exactly the same engine as the 125i's engine.

of course I do E, I love them. However you seem to be determined to not give a straight answer to a straight question so I'll just give up at this stage.

pburns

Gandalf23 wrote: »

The current saloon back and side ...



The Facelifted back and side ...




I have to say lads, I still prefer the current shape.

You need to go to SpecSavers!:D

It's not gonna worry the 159 in a beauty competition but it's a big improvement, especially the rear. You sound like someone who's just bought a current-shape model & is trying to convince themselves;)...

Have to say the CO2/BHP figures sound amazing, I'm very impressed. They've just become so common for my tastes though - maybe a nice juicy recession will sort that out:D... I fear Finance will have to tweak the new VRT bands though - they have to be losing revenue hand-over-fist with the huge strides made by manufactureres in the last year.

Zonda999

pburns wrote: »

You need to go to SpecSavers!:D

It's not gonna worry the 159 in a beauty competition but it's a big improvement, especially the rear. You sound like someone who's just bought a current-shape model & is trying to convince themselves;)...

Have to say the CO2/BHP figures sound amazing, I'm very impressed. They've just become so common for my tastes though - maybe a nice juicy recession will sort that out:D... I fear Finance will have to tweak the new VRT bands though - they have to be losing revenue hand-over-fist with the huge strides made by manufactureres in the last year.

Your bang on about that last bit.The VRO hates bmws.Theyve become very popular to import since a few days ago so they are being totally gone through scrutinously for any extra they can find.Theyve taken out a similiar policy towards mercs and audis.There was a thread about it a few days ago

I've said it before.The new system will not last at the current rates.It equals a lot less for the government and a sh!t load less in road tax for the councils.I'd imagine something will be done about it in the budget at the end of the year or possibly next year

E92

Thing is though because BMW are one of the best for CO2 they're still gonna look like good value relative to other cars. If the Government taxes cars too much then people just aren't going to buy as many cars, meaning less VRT collected by the Government.

The car industry has been on the floor recently, there's no way the SIMI are gonna let the Government change things so soon again. I agree that the following year's budget is going to see a big increase in VRT rates though. I definately wouldn't rule out some sort of diesel loading idea either, though bringing it in next year or the year after would be strictly ironic as Euro 5 will clean up cancer causing PM by quite a margin, though obviously Euro 5 diesels still have some way to go to match even Euro 4 never mind Euro 5 petrol. Nevertheless Euro 5 will offer welcome improvements in diesel emissions, especially particulates.

If they can make the Government not backdate road tax changes they can twist their arm with VRT as well, as personally I hope they do.

JHMEG

Zonda999 wrote: »

The VRO hates bmws.Theyve become very popular to import since a few days ago so they are being totally gone through scrutinously for any extra they can find.

That's always been the way. With the amount of BMWs coming in over the last few years it's understandable tho: they are cash cows.

Re this Blueperformance, I wonder what does this mean:
"BMW BluePerformance technology with NOX storage catalytic converter
for the reduction of nitrogen oxide emissions", here

Gandalf23

pburns wrote: »

You need to go to SpecSavers!:D

It's not gonna worry the 159 in a beauty competition but it's a big improvement, especially the rear. You sound like someone who's just bought a current-shape model & is trying to convince themselves;)...

Have to say the CO2/BHP figures sound amazing, I'm very impressed. They've just become so common for my tastes though - maybe a nice juicy recession will sort that out:D... I fear Finance will have to tweak the new VRT bands though - they have to be losing revenue hand-over-fist with the huge strides made by manufactureres in the last year.

I've just always loved the current 3 series shape ... I was stunned by it since the first day I saw one in the flesh a few years ago. But it is a slightly acquired taste I suppose.

I'm judging the facelifted shape by pics alone ... maybe I'll change my mind when I see one in real life.

Still two beautiful cars imho.

E92

If anyone has read JHMEG's link you will see that rather unfortunately it looks like only the 330d and 325d will offer CO2 improvements after all:o.

My apologies for talking up the 318i and 318d up last night, it was wishful thinking on my part. This is disappointing since they said earlier on in the year they were "confident" they could get the 318d to do 120 g/km or better. And not only that but yesterday they said that all models would offer emissions improvements too.

There will NOT be a 323d either based on what that link says.

The engine line up will remain unchanged bar the 330d, which pollutes 152 g/km, that means 20% VRT to you and me:)!

I think I know what engine anyone who likes cars and not badges will be buying:D!

JHMEG

Advanced Diesel with BluePerformance incorporates an oxidation catalyst placed just downstream of the exhaust manifold, a diesel particulates filter housed in the same unit and an SCR catalyst with AdBlue urea injection.

BMW has developed a two-tank AdBlue system for convenient use. The amount of AdBlue required in each case is injected from the active tank (approximately 1.6 gallons in volume) by means of a dosage pump. Since the urea solution would freeze at a temperature of 12.2°F, this active tank, as well as the dosage pipes, are heated.

The active tank is connected to a second reservoir, referred to as the passive tank. With its additional capacity of approximately 4.5 gallons, this passive tank offers a plentiful supply of the urea solution. The average range provided with this supply capacity is sufficient to have the tank system replenished only when the driver needs to change the engine oil.

AdBlue from the active tank is delivered to the dosing valve and atomized into the exhaust system. Consistent distribution of AdBlue within the flow of exhaust is ensured by the SCR mixer.

The SCR system is controlled by the engine management computer. A nitric oxide sensor downstream of the SCR catalyst provides feedback on the concentration of NOx in the exhaust emissions.

Since all BMWs sold in the US operate under the BMW Maintenance Program, the refilling of the AdBlue tanks will be a no-charge service for 4 years or 50,000 miles.

Due to packaging limitations in certain vehicles, the position and location of the AdBlue tank may be varied from one vehicle model to the other. In the BMW 335d, the active and passive tank are at the rear end of the car, while in the BMW X5 xDrive35d, the active tank is housed in the front right section of the engine compartment, and the passive tank is under-floor next to the transmission.

E92

Yes it's well known at this stage that they will be using AdBlue. I remember the 2 of us having that very discussion on this forum a few months ago about AdBlue and I seem to remember you saying that pretty much every medium to large car would need it or some other after combustion treatment.

Fortunately BMW doesn't need AdBlue for Euro 5; the brand new 7 series diesels don't use it and neither does the facelifted 3 series.

Speaking of Euro 5, the 7 series and facelifted 3 series will 2 of the very first model ranges on sale with an all direct injection petrol line up that is Euro 5 compliant.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

If anyone has read JHMEG's link you will see that rather unfortunately it looks like only the 330d and 325d will offer CO2 improvements after all:o.

My apologies for talking up the 318i and 318d up last night, it was wishful thinking on my part. This is disappointing since they said earlier on in the year they were "confident" they could get the 318d to do 120 g/km or better.

the link is just the press release that I posted the info from on the 318s yesterday on the first page of the thread??

JHMEG

More interesting info here. Doesn't look like it'll be US Tier 2 Bin 5 depsite being Euro 5/6.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/07/bmw-3-series-re.html

E92

That's because as some guy who lives in America told us several weeks ago, with a user name that was all Roman numerals, they're after tightening the emission laws again in the US.

Originally as you know there were supposed to be 50 state diesels, but that was before the US had the decency to toughen up the laws again and try and effectively ban diesel.

That and the fact that Euro 6 diesels are only as clean as Euro 4 petrols for Nitrous Oxide as well.

Euro 6 diesels are still allowed to pollute 33% more NOx than Euro 5 petrols. Euro 5 diesels are allowed to pollute 2 1/4 times more NOx than Euro 5 petrols.

nc6000

Will this facelift on top of the new pricelist since July 1st make much of a difference to the resale values of older BMWs I wonder? I've on 06 318i SE with 76,000 KM on it and am trying to estimate how much it will be worth in September 09 when the 3 year lease is up. I'm thinking of buying it if the price is right but may be better off in a new diesel and it's lower running costs (hoping that diesel prices become sensible again between now and then).

Any thoughts anyone?

Seth Brundle

for those interested, the official press release...

More pics

JHMEG

nc6000 wrote: »

(hoping that diesel prices become sensible again between now and then).

Any thoughts anyone?

Diesel prices are only going to get worse...

nc6000

JHMEG wrote: »

Diesel prices are only going to get worse...

Bad enough to cancel out the extra MPG over and above petrol?

ADSLUSER

Anyone any idea when the new facelifted 3-series will be available in Ireland. It's due on sale in the UK on Sept 20th.

Joe Duffy aren't taking orders yet as they have limited information atm - I guess they're trying to shift the older models out before accepting orders for the newer model.

Bendihorse

Not a huge fan of either new or old, E46 model m sports were much nicer than the current sport versions. Not a fan of either version in standard spec. If i was pushed, i would say the pre facelift model was nicer than the new one though...

38psi

ADSLUSER wrote: »

Anyone any idea when the new facelifted 3-series will be available in Ireland. It's due on sale in the UK on Sept 20th.

Joe Duffy aren't taking orders yet as they have limited information atm - I guess they're trying to shift the older models out before accepting orders for the newer model.

Dont understand why they only have limited info, if the first deliveries in the UK are mid/end Sept it should be no different here .Maybe you could try some of the other dealer to see what their info is.

E92

BMW Ireland is a subsidiary of BMW GB, and hence we have the same launch dates as they do since BMW started importing the cars themselves.