How NOT to apply for a job

mcaul

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snellers

I can appreciate and agree what you are trying to convey with regards to applying thought to the CV (as I have mentioned in previous posts it is important to try and 'cater' your experiences to the position applied for.

**I assume the positions advertised are shop worker / shelf stacker / tills

what's your definition of a 'basic CV' ? if it details name, work experience and education in a clearly set out format then I don't personally see a problem..... many people applying for 'shop work' will typically be young, inexperienced or simply not have the range of skills to create a great CV.

As for the cover note.....all depends on the job applying for - if you go into your local tesco as an example and ask to apply for work, most managers will simply take your CV off of you without any form of cover letter....

I'm not saying it's not best practice to put a decent cover letter but you should appreciate the positions advertised and not treat it like you would, say, for a more senior position. If I was advertising a checkout position and someone sent a CV with a one line cover letter 'please find CV attached in relation the the checkout position advertised.....I look forward to hearing from you' - IMO that is sufficient.

as for the 100gsm paper I find that a laughable statement! Ensure the paper is perfectly clean, your printer has printed as clear as it can, paper not creased and sent in an appropriate envelope correctly addressed -

it upsets me to think you would prejudice applications if they weren't on whatever you class as acceptable gsm paper. FYI I have always used 75gsm tesco value and it has never done me any harm (for senior management positions in IT).

Before anyone says I am implying everyone that applies for shop work is dumb - I am not - I am simply suggesting that the general demographic of people looking for full time work in that sector generally will not have a great deal of experience of presenting a 'tip top' CV and cover letter.

I do appreicate the facts you are giving suggestions on how to apply for jobs and I agree entirely that a slack attitude to writing CV's can affect your chances. I hope you can see the point I am trying to make

dave13

mcaul wrote: »

If you've done your leaving cert, you don't need to have junior cert results on it.
If you've completed 3rd level, you don't need leaving results on it.

.

You'd be suprised. My GF has a diploma and a seperate degree so obviously doesn't have her Leaving cert results on her CV, but in two recent interviews(for State bodies) she was asked if she had actually done her leaving cert!

mkdon05

100gsm????:rolleyes: And how does this determine their ability?
Get a grip! I take it they would have to wear an armani suit to the interview as well!

Epic FAIL

mcaul

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mcaul

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kayos

The paper weight comment is honestly laughable. I would look better on a CV printed on decent recyled paper than I would a CV on uber quality kiss good bye to the rain forest paper. For the type of job you are advertising for you have to remember a lot of applicants may not have access to a printer and are doing it from a Web Cafe. Not sure if they would even be able to pop in better paper. What will you do once you have read the CV's? Either file the ones you hired or bin (hopefully shred and recycle) the others. So honestly does a better quailty paper make sense? The contents of the CV should be what makes the person stand out not the paper its printed on.

I agree is second level results being of no interest once you have a college degree. Just like the summer jobs in the local pub should be removed once you have more suitable work in the field you are in.

Cover Letters? Meh I dont know the last time I recieved one does not bother me as for the most part I would have recieved CV's in softcopy from an agent.

As for using the term expanded be careful what you wish for. I've seen CV's that where double digit pages (23 pages in one case). It just screams they dont know how to remove the crap. I did see one such CV where the details on a position in one company where repeated for a few others.

Gone West

Jesus mccaul, its for a basic gift shop in Carlow and you're bitching about people for having a poorly presented cv? Par for the course tbh.
100 GSM paper on your cv, just for working in a re-located gift shop that had to close down because they couldn't afford the rent in the last place?
Don't mean to be harsh unnecessarily, but are you for real?
Sounds like someone is getting a little ahead of himself.

Winters

Particular paper, certain cover letters ... small shop job..

Anal much?

LegacyUser

LOL Mcaul, your just like the guy on the FM104 phone show last night who said he would never hire fat people no matter how good they are/were at the job.

Get over yourself. You hire people for a gift shop? Jesus Christ...your not Donald Trump.

mickoneill30

He's had 29 applicants for his advertised role.

He had 9 that met his requirements and he's calling those. So those 9 "anal" people get the interview.

Of course it's going to come down to something small.

Really, if you're applying for a job you make a bit of an effort. A couple of paragraphs in a cover letter and a well presented customised CV to the job take half an hour to produce. And then you follow it up with a call.

It's turning into an employers market out there. If you think it's anal fine but I bet we'll all be doing it in a year or two.

I'm excluding the agencies there. I know agencies just forward on the CVs but employers have a relationship with the agency already and don't need a cover letter. Potential employees still give cover letters to the agencies too.

As for walking into the place to present your CV. That's your cover letter. You've made a bit of an effort and gone up to the place.

Photocopying 20 CVs and throwing them into the letterbox in the hope that one of them gets looked at is spam. Any spam I receive goes into the bin.

As for the 100gsm paper. I never thought of it before but if I'm somebody who's looking for a job I might do it in future. Why not? If the employer doesn't care then fine. If the employer notices then it's one tiny little bit of postive notice that can't possibly do any harm.

LegacyUser

I have been in most recruitment agencies in Dublin pretty much and never ever ever given in a cover letter.

dudara

I agree with a lot of what the OP said, but the paper quality thing is just ridiculous. I would probably disregard a lot of CVs printed on "fancy" paper because I'd be wondering what the candidate was trying to compensate for.

BTW - Tesco Value printer paper will obviously not do the job either

flash harry

jeez cant even remeber the last time someone actually physically sent me a cv - but I'll make sure I print them on 100g paper from now on - that way they can all stand out together!!

Cover letter - not for me

mcaul

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mickoneill30

cheesedude wrote: »

I have been in most recruitment agencies in Dublin pretty much and never ever ever given in a cover letter.

Is that good or bad?

Generally if you impress one you should only really need to go to one agency.

Edit: And a lot of agencies don't want to meet you and are happy enough to forward your information along (if you've impressed them enough with your cover letter and CV)

mcaul

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mcaul

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dazberry

mcaul wrote: »

If you saw how poorly presented nearly half of the CV's I received are - you'd see whay I started this!

Personally I don't care what paper the CV is on - albeit toilet or tracing paper indeed won't cut it - its to do with the layout and content. When you have 40 CVs in front of you badly laid out or inconsistant CVs become a chore.

Cover letters (if applicable) - for me short and to the point - "please find attached... for position blah blah..."

When have I binned CVs? Well unsolicited ones generally - especially when the person hasn't taken the time to find out what we did... Otherwise I would review all CVs no matter how painful.

D.

LegacyUser

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Is that good or bad?

Generally if you impress one you should only really need to go to one agency.

Edit: And a lot of agencies don't want to meet you and are happy enough to forward your information along (if you've impressed them enough with your cover letter and CV)

Only one recruitment agency? HAHA how badly have you been shortchanged in the past? Or do you live in some rural agricultural place where they only have one agency?

It's called competition and choice. I want to get the best salary I can possibly get.

There is nothing hard about impressing a recruiter really, they want to make money and you want to make money so it's a mutual process. Plus, they make their money from my skills so damn right I go around. But I won't need them when I have my own business.

Winters

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Gone West

mcaul wrote: »

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Why start a thread then delete all your posts?
Its like throwing your toys out of the pram because the conversation wasn't going your way. Be a man and leave whatever you posted up there!
It ruined the flow of the thread.

Well basically, for anybody just joining us now: the guy ran a gift shop in liffey valley that closed down (http://www.giftmaster.ie/), is moving it to carlow and had loads of people apply for jobs there. He was pointing out how there is an employers market now, and that most of the people applying didn't bother putting proper CVs together, and he would prefer if they had it on 100gsm paper, with a good cover note etc. Not a biggie!

Also, OP €11 ph is not a good wage on for anything but the most basic basic retail work, in my opinion.

Climate Expert

I'd agree with what Mcaul said before he went beserk deleting stuff if we were talking about a real job here not a pissy summer job in a shop.

LegacyUser

FuzzyLogic wrote: »

Why start a thread then delete all your posts?
Its like throwing your toys out of the pram because the conversation wasn't going your way. Be a man and leave whatever you posted up there!
It ruined the flow of the thread.

Well basically, for anybody just joining us now: the guy ran a gift shop in liffey valley that closed down (http://www.giftmaster.ie/), is moving it to carlow and had loads of people apply for jobs there. He was pointing out how there is an employers market now, and that most of the people applying didn't bother putting proper CVs together, and he would prefer if they had it on 100gsm paper, with a good cover note etc.

Also, OP €11 ph is not a good wage on for anything but the most basic basic retail work, in my opinion.

Jesus, this just reinforces the fact that I am never going to make sure anyone knows who I am behind this alias...

Winters

cheesedude wrote: »

Jesus, this just reinforces the fact that I am never going to make sure anyone knows who I am behind this alias...

He had all that information in either his boards signature/profile or had mentioned it in his posts.. Before things were not going his way and he removed them all.

Also, deleted.

Claire121

A bit O/T but 11 p/h is hardly a terrible wage That's what I got for working in a call centre requiring fluency in 3 languages, dealing with stress and processing orders all day. The people without foreign languages only got the minimum wage. Most temp jobs in offices only pay 10-12 euro/hour. 11 p/h for retail work sounds more than reasonable to me.

Eoin

cheesedude wrote: »

I have been in most recruitment agencies in Dublin pretty much and never ever ever given in a cover letter.

Do you mean you sent your CV into a recruitment agency without a cover letter?

mickoneill30

cheesedude wrote: »

Only one recruitment agency? HAHA how badly have you been shortchanged in the past? Or do you live in some rural agricultural place where they only have one agency?

Nope. One agency at a time. I see a job I apply to the agency. I get the job or not. Why would I need to hop around all the different agencies. There are loads of crap ones out there. No point in going to them. I've better things to be doing. I go for the job not the agency. I really don't care which agency is advertising the job.

The agencies want loads of people on their books. Saying you've been to them all is not a good thing to be saying (and I wouldn't be bragging about it). If I was desperate and willing to take anything I'm sure I'd contact all the agencies. Haven't been yet though.

LegacyUser

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Nope. One agency at a time. I see a job I apply to the agency. I get the job or not. Why would I need to hop around all the different agencies. There are loads of crap ones out there. No point in going to them. I've better things to be doing. I go for the job not the agency. I really don't care which agency is advertising the job.

The agencies want loads of people on their books. Saying you've been to them all is not a good thing to be saying. If I was desperate and willing to take anything I'm sure I'd contact all the agencies. Haven't been yet though.

Because in my experience, if you go around and impress the recruiter by displaying traits and skills required for the job as well as being a confident, charismatic and intelligent individual who smiles and is courteous and friendly, the recruiter goes out of their way to get you your ideal job.

The agencies want loads of people on their books? That's not my problem. I only care about my career when I go to an agency. I go to all the agencies that are applicable and sell myself and my skill set in order to get the best job. I go in there and say I want this or that, and I want this much pay...can you help? If they say Yes, brilliant, and because I pick and choose which agency I go to, I get the best deal of all the suitable ones.

If I was desperate and willing to take anything I'm sure I'd contact all the agencies. Haven't been yet though.

I like to get the best possible job. You obviously just settle for what is advertised, I make good relationships with the recruiters and ask them if such and such a company will be contacting them with positions and wage estimates...you seem to just take what's on offer. I have high standards and expectations and I go for the best possible job I can get. I also only contact recruitment agencies that specialize in my career.

mickoneill30

cheesedude wrote: »

I like to get the best possible job. You obviously just settle for what is advertised, I make good relationships with the recruiters and ask them if such and such a company will be contacting them with positions and wage estimates...you seem to just take what's on offer. I have high standards and expectations and I go for the best possible job I can get. I also only contact recruitment agencies that specialize in my career.

OK. We'll agree to disagree. I know some recruiters and all we are is money to them. It's business.
You can make your relationships and think you're being singled out to the employer. If you really think the agency is only sending your CV in and not sending 5 or 10 more in too that's fine.

I didn't say I just settled for whats advertised. The role I'm currently in was one I contacted the company directly for. I'm just saying that you don't need to waste your time with every recruiter to try and get a job.

I also only contact recruitment agencies that specialize in my career.

Ah you didn't say that in your original post. You said you'd been to most recruitment agencies in Dublin.

LegacyUser

Climate Expert wrote: »

Are you literally choking on **** when you say that?

I don't quite get you.

LegacyUser

mickoneill30 wrote: »

OK. We'll agree to disagree. I know some recruiters and all we are is money to them. It's business.
You can make your relationships and think you're being singled out to the employer. If you really think the agency is only sending your CV in and not sending 5 or 10 more in too that's fine.

But that's all I want though. I don't care about competition. I just want to be given a fair shot like anyone else.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I didn't say I just settled for whats advertised. The role I'm currently in was one I contacted the company directly for. I'm just saying that you don't need to waste your time with every recruiter to try and get a job.

I agree, you don't have to. But if they are a valuable source of information and have contacts, then I have no problem using them. You have **** recruitment agencies and you have good ones in my experience. Anyway, I learned a lot about recruitment agencies at 17/18 looking for temp work when I was finished school waiting for college to start so I know a fair bit about them especially considering I am 24 now.

Eoin

Claire121 wrote: »

A bit O/T but 11 p/h is hardly a terrible wage That's what I got for working in a call centre requiring fluency in 3 languages, dealing with stress and processing orders all day. The people without foreign languages only got the minimum wage. Most temp jobs in offices only pay 10-12 euro/hour. 11 p/h for retail work sounds more than reasonable to me.

I agree Claire, that would be 18K+ based on 35 hours a week.

mickoneill30

cheesedude wrote: »

I don't quite get you.

I think he means that the agency isn't sending you to get the best job for you. They're sending you to where they'll get the most money for you.

If you're any good they'll be ringing you in 6 months time to see if you're bored in your job and want to move again so they can make more money.

I'm sounding too cynical now. But that's what they do. They don't give a damn about you and why should they. They're putting a round peg in a round hole and getting paid for it.

Maybe I'm lumping all the agencies together. I apologise to any recruiters that don't work like this.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

cheers for that mcaul. why start a thread and then delete your posts? you owe everyone back a few minutes of their lives.