Used BMW 3 series/5 series

jack24

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has actually purchased a late reg (07 or 08) BMW in the past few weeks. I know there was considerable debate over the pricing of these vehicles (or at least the models which were coming down in price at start July) and their price levels on Carzone. I was considering visiting a dealer to tyre kick with a view to purchasing but I was wondering if anyone had taken the plunge yet and, if so, how they got on.

Thanks,

Jack

pburns

jack24 wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has actually purchased a late reg (07 or 08) BMW in the past few weeks. I know there was considerable debate over the pricing of these vehicles (or at least the models which were coming down in price at start July) and their price levels on Carzone. I was considering visiting a dealer to tyre kick with a view to purchasing but I was wondering if anyone had taken the plunge yet and, if so, how they got on.

Thanks,

Jack

You'd need to bear in mind that '07s will forever be stuck with the old CC-based road tax system whereas '08s can be taxed on the new CO2 based criteria. This could mean a saving of many hundreds a year (depending on model). As well as saving a few bob in the short-term, I would imaging 08s would be infinitely more desirable a few years down the road...

The BMW dealers had a booklet pre-July that gives you all the facts-and-figures.

Ice_Box

I noticed signs on a lot of 5-series in Joe Duffys in Finglas saying things like "was 45,000 now 39,999" but I've no details Im afraid.

also spotted this today
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/BMW/520/520-se/1129925/

"2004 bmw 5201 d plate taxed xeon lights air con elec seats cruise control all normal extras drives superb 53000 miles was 38000 euro 18 months ago has to be cheap.."

are things that bad?

Gandalf23

I bought a 2006 320i M Sport on Wednesday with about 20k on the clock. I wont tell you what I paid, but I was very happy with the price and really think I got a great deal.

There is absolutely fantastic value out there at the moment ... cars similar to the one I bought are available for about €27,000 - €28,000. Not bad for a car which cost over €50k new in 2006 (with the new VRT regime that car would cost about €46 new on the road today).

jack24

Thanks Lads,

Interested to hear you bought an '06 520d series, does that not have quite high road tax? Any one else have any feedback, I will be heading to a BMW dealer at the weekend to do a testdrive, probably of a 318. I've never driven a BMW before so it will be a new experience for me. Unfortunately I have to buy now and cannot wait til the new facelift model (I think there may be better value in used anyway). I just am not sure of the level of discount I could get from a BMW dealer. Anyone that has any advice it would be greatly appreciated! At the risk of turning this into a 'what car should I buy' I may also look at the Lexus 220d. I am not a huge fan of diesel cars but the Lexus has great reliability etc so is another option. I know the price of the 220d is approx €38k retail OTR so I reckon I should be able to pick up an '08 for the €30k mark or just above it. I haven't drive it either BTW....

Jack

-Chris-

jack24 wrote: »

Thanks Lads,

Interested to hear you bought an '06 520d series, does that not have quite high road tax?

I personally wouldn't worry too much about the road tax in a 06, it's where someone has the choice between an '07 with "high" tax and an '08 with lower tax that it becomes an issue.

jack24 wrote: »

Any one else have any feedback, I will be heading to a BMW dealer at the weekend to do a testdrive, probably of a 318. I've never driven a BMW before so it will be a new experience for me.

If you like to drive, you'll like it. They were always lacking a "sense of occasion" for me, but they're top-notch build quality, well-spec'd and a very rewarding car to drive hard.

jack24 wrote: »

Unfortunately I have to buy now and cannot wait til the new facelift model

If you're going used, don't worry about the facelift. Your car'll be the old model no matter what you do!

jack24 wrote: »

(I think there may be better value in used anyway).

Used is better value, new is "your" car. If you need it asap, you don't want to worry about facelifts and you want bang for your buck, you have to look at used.

jack24 wrote: »

I just am not sure of the level of discount I could get from a BMW dealer. Anyone that has any advice it would be greatly appreciated!

Don't buy anything on Saturday. Take a note of what you like, post it here and get some feedback.

jack24 wrote: »

At the risk of turning this into a 'what car should I buy' I may also look at the Lexus 220d. I am not a huge fan of diesel cars but the Lexus has great reliability etc so is another option. I know the price of the 220d is approx €38k retail OTR so I reckon I should be able to pick up an '08 for the €30k mark or just above it. I haven't drive it either BTW....

Lexus'll have HUGE spec, but if you gave me the choice I'd go for the Beemer every time.

I'm not sure if a €38k - €30k drop in less than 6 months is reasonable...

jack24 wrote: »

Jack

E92

jack24 wrote: »

Thanks Lads,

Interested to hear you bought an '06 520d series, does that not have quite high road tax? Any one else have any feedback, I will be heading to a BMW dealer at the weekend to do a testdrive, probably of a 318. I've never driven a BMW before so it will be a new experience for me.

I'll put it to you this way - a 07 520d is the grand total of €10 less to tax than a 08 530i or 535d:eek:. Yes you read that correctly, under the new emissions system a 3.0 litre petrol BMW is only €10 dearer than a 2.0 litre BMW under the cc system. A 08 530d(or 525d) with a manual gearbox is €160 less to tax than a 07 520d too.

I know which I'd be having anyway:D!

I find BMWs to be generally delightful cars to drive. I have a 520i and the parents have a brand new 520d. They're very satisfying to just chuck into a bend and they handling is very good too. They let you know what the front wheels are up to much more so than in some other cars. If you go for a 6 cylinder models you get something as smooth as silk and something that makes a great sound when extended.

To be honest if you're not bothered by driving pleasure I think there are better options out there. The way they drive is what they do best, especially the 6 cylinder models which are a real step up from the 4 cylinder models. You have to drive a 6 cylinder BMW to see why I'm making such a fuss about going for one with 6 cylinders:D. They're not as comfy or as quiet as rival cars if I'm being honest. Audi still do better and more spacious interiors. BMW dealers are getting a better reputation by the day as well, but don't expect them to be cheap when you want to service your car.

If it were the 3 series I'd be going for a 320i or a 320d. Since they're no dearer to tax than a 318i or 318d you might as well avail of the extra performance while it's there for free. The 320d is a smart choice. 177 bhp and 58.9 mpg average fuel consumption sounds pretty good to me(it is surprisingly capable in the larger and heavier 520d if not terribly refined or quiet for a big executive saloon), though I can't resist that straight 6 engine in the 325i;)!

robbie99

Have you considered buying from UK?

There's a greater number of cars to choose from so you'll easily find a spec you'll like. The warranty on UK BMWs is 3 years rather than 2 and the Irish dealers don't discount used cars as much as the UK dealers do.

Here's a 2008 reg approved used 320i SE Saloon...

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_details/0,,1260_159980106__,00.html?currentCh=WBAVA72020AH24453

Exchange rate: €1 = £0.79

Asking Price: £18,295 (€23,158)

Irish RRP new: €42,669 (includes €850 on the road delivery charges)
UK RRP new: £24,580 (€31,114)

Importing expenses

---

Irish VAT: nil. (greater than 6k km and will be over 6 months old)
VRT for above spec: €6,883
Ferry trip: €150
AA vehicle inspection: €235
Irish plates: €30
Days off work: 2.

That works out at €30,456 from UK and we haven't even asked for a discount yet which we'll easily get cause as we're not going to trade in a car.

This 08 320i M Sport saloon with USB, 18" wheels and sunprotection glass is going for £19,990. (Irish new on the road would be €47,436). VRT will work out at €7,683. Add in the cost of Ferry etc and you can have it for €33,402.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_details/0,,1260_159980106__,00.html?currentCh=WBAVA72070VA48820

Here's the Irish prices on carzone... cheaper than even the 07 cars.
http://www.carzone.ie/usedc......d+>>

Astonishing savings.

Anan1

Be careful with the E90 320i - owners seem to be having problems with that particular engine: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136258&highlight=320i+problems

Cyrus

robbie99 wrote: »

Have you considered buying from UK?

There's a greater number of cars to choose from so you'll easily find a spec you'll like. The warranty on UK BMWs is 3 years rather than 2 and the Irish dealers don't discount used cars as much as the UK dealers do.

Here's a 2008 reg approved used 320i SE Saloon...

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_details/0,,1260_159980106__,00.html?currentCh=WBAVA72020AH24453

Exchange rate: €1 = £0.79

Asking Price: £18,295 (€23,158)

Irish RRP new: €42,669 (includes €850 on the road delivery charges)
UK RRP new: £24,580 (€31,114)

Importing expenses

---

Irish VAT: nil. (greater than 6k km and will be over 6 months old)
VRT for above spec: €6,883
Ferry trip: €150
AA vehicle inspection: €235
Irish plates: €30
Days off work: 2.

That works out at €30,456 from UK and we haven't even asked for a discount yet which we'll easily get cause as we're not going to trade in a car.

This 08 320i M Sport saloon with USB, 18" wheels and sunprotection glass is going for £19,990. (Irish new on the road would be €47,436). VRT will work out at €7,683. Add in the cost of Ferry etc and you can have it for €33,402.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_details/0,,1260_159980106__,00.html?currentCh=WBAVA72070VA48820

Here's the Irish prices on carzone... cheaper than even the 07 cars.
http://www.carzone.ie/usedc......d+>>

Astonishing savings.

dont even need the aa check imo on an Approved used car as warranty etc still applies and damn they seem cheap

jack24

Thanks a million lads for the great info. I won't be making any rush decisions (well at the very least I won't be buying on Saturday), I see the savings on the imports but I need to get some wheels in a few weeks so I'm not sure that I will have the time to go down this route. I'll let you all know how I get on with the test drive. At least now I am armed with more knowledge as to what sort of prices I should be looking at. Re the Lexus I think I was seduced by the spec, I will be spending quite a bit of time on the M50 so the few gadgets/luxuries which come as standard were tempting. However I always fancied a BMW so I will give it a lash on Saturday and let you know how I got on,

Thanks for the help,

Jack

jack24

Lads,

Quick update. I did the test drive in the 318i. Lovely car to drive, didn't get a chance to do much other than a quick drive around the back roads so no opportunity to enjoy myself in it. Very responsive, didn't get the impression that I would be going rallying in it or anything, but then from what everyone has said the 320 and above are the cars for that. Dealer wouldn't give me a final definitive price, worked out approx 1k off list but further reductions once the famous old 'manager' would be consulted when I actually decide to commit to the purchase. I have taken a quick sideways move and am now checking out the possibility of a used 520d as an alternative, anyone any suggestions for sourcing one? I have checked BMW uk website but would prob need to concentrate on Northern Ireland as I need the car in a few weeks. Can't see much value on there if I take VRT into account. I know its list prices on there but in the main the '08 (Jan reg, VAT qualifying vehicle) 520d would work out at somewhere approaching €40k. I know there would likely be a few quid off the asking price but it doesnt seem like it would be worth the hassle - heres a link to one of the cars I was looking at.

http://www.bavarianbmw.co.uk/usedbmw/view_model.html?dolnDealerID=11200&currentCh=WBANX32060C033385

Any views would be welcome, I liked the comfort of the 3 series but prefer the styling (exterior) of the 5 series. Any expert views appreciated as I try to make my mind up!

Cheers,

Jack

Stevie Dakota

Anan1 wrote: »

Be careful with the E90 320i - owners seem to be having problems with that particular engine: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136258&highlight=320i+problems

Is this yet another BMW engine problem?

Nikasil
Failing turbos pre 04
Plastic waterpump impellers forever
Now this...

For a company that prides itself on its engine it's a bit of a joke.

robbie99

If you fancy that 520d from Bavarian motors then I recommend making an offer of no more than £24.5k for it. There's this 520d available for £25k.
http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_details/0,,1260_159980106__,00.html?currentCh=WBANX32090C033767

Stick to your guns. This one has lower mileage, a better reg - 08 rather than 57, more options - particularly the heated seats, and a better colour (subjective I know!). You also won't be trading in a car so that should help with achieving the benchmark price. They should be well able to match the £25k price.

jack24

Thanks for all the help,

Checked out a dealer on Carzone who works out at €41k for an 08 VAT/VRT included. This seems high compared to the UK price you mentioned (and the ones I saw checking out the Northern BMW dealers). I got a 'best' price for the 318i of approx €37k. Going for an 08 import from a Northern Ireland dealer, 520d, if I secured it for £25k as per previous post (really need to got for a Northern one as time is an issue) it works out at about €38.5k (VAT qualifying). Any opinions? Anyone done this recently and have any recommendations/things to watch out for? I would be buying from an approved BMW dealership.

Thanks for the continued assistance,

Jack

mickdw

Anyone confirm whether the bmw warranty transfers with the uk cars. This would be a deal breaker for me if it didnt. I notice some importer/dealer on carzone offering 3 month warranty on 08 520d. I assume this means that the manufacturer warranty doesnt carry over to ireland

Stevie Dakota

AFAIK the warranty must be honoured from the country the car was bought, hence a UK Ford/Citroen will carry a 3 year warranty here as opposed to the Irish warranty of 2 years.

robbie99

mickdw wrote: »

Anyone confirm whether the bmw warranty transfers with the uk cars. This would be a deal breaker for me if it didnt. I notice some importer/dealer on carzone offering 3 month warranty on 08 520d. I assume this means that the manufacturer warranty doesnt carry over to ireland

`

Some EU law "Block Exemption" or something means that all manufacturers must provide a 2 year warranty on cars sold in europe regardless from which european country the car was sourced in.

BMW UK cars come with a 2 year worldwide manufacturers waranty which will be honoured here in Ireland. The third year of the BMW UK warranty is a Dealer Warranty. Any UK dealer (NI included) wil process warranty claims in the third year. If during the third year the car needs to be fixed here you pay the Irish dealer to fix the problem and ask for the faulty parts back. You can then return the faulty part to a UK dealer along with paid invoice and the UK dealer will process the claim and you'll be refunded.

mickdw

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

AFAIK the warranty must be honoured from the country the car was bought, hence a UK Ford/Citroen will carry a 3 year warranty here as opposed to the Irish warranty of 2 years.

Why then dealers offering their own 3 month warranty on a 2008 car?

Also, I visited the local bmw garage and sales guy said "Alot of people think they have a 3 year warranty when importing but they most definitely do not".

Also, a friend of mine recently imported a 2007 vectra and english dealer said, once registered in another country, then they cannot cover it and irish opel dealer also said that its not their problem either.

Cyrus

mickdw wrote: »

Also, I visited the local bmw garage and sales guy said "Alot of people think they have a 3 year warranty when importing but they most definitely do not".
.

like a bmw salesman would know

my understanding is the same as robbie 99

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_imports.html

http://www.euroimports.co.uk/html/warranty.aspx

of course the best thing to do is call bmw ireland, you will have an answer in minutes

Cyrus

from here

funny that a bmw dealer in ireland gave a self serving answer :rolleyes:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=630315

Dear Mr F
Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding purchasing a Used BMW.
I can confirm that if you were to purchase an Approved Used BMW, which
was originally registered in January 2008, you would inherit the
remainder of the three year manufacturer's warranty and emergency
service cover. This would be honoured in Southern Ireland if you were to
import it and you could then take the vehicle to any BMW Dealership in
Southern Ireland in the event that any warranty or service work was
required.
I can also confirm that all BMW models come with a 2 year world wide
warranty. For UK purchased BMW models, BMW UK supply the vehicle with a
third year Dealer warranty. This third year warranty is only valid in
the UK and Southern Ireland. In addition, the BMW Emergency Service
cover is included which provides home and road side assistance in the UK
and Europe, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
I trust that this information is of assistance to you, if you have any
further questions regarding this, please contact us on the telephone
number below.
Yours sincerely

Warranty Services Advisor
BMW Group
Financial Services

Stevie Dakota

mickdw wrote: »

Why then dealers offering their own 3 month warranty on a 2008 car?
.

Not sure what you mean by this? A 3 month warranty on a 2008 makes no sense...any 2008 would have manufacturers warranty on it.

mickdw

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this? A 3 month warranty on a 2008 makes no sense...any 2008 would have manufacturers warranty on it.

Reading about the 3 month warranty, I was afraid that the manufacturers warranty was cancelled when exported and also vauxhall seem to be confirming that no warranty cover whatsoever once reregistered.

Stevie Dakota

mickdw wrote: »

Reading about the 3 month warranty, I was afraid that the manufacturers warranty was cancelled when exported and also vauxhall seem to be confirming that no warranty cover whatsoever once reregistered.

That sounds nuts, unless there is some issue about Vauxhaul not being represented in Ireland, I would phone Opel Ireland, they may have some clarity.

E92

All new cars sold in the EU are required by law to have a 2 year warranty, that is valid throughout the entire EU.

Warranties beyond this can be dealer warranties or whatever(most UK 3 year warranties are dealer warranties for year 3, with the first 2 years being from the manufacturer), and only have to be valid in the car's home market.

jack24

Gents,

Quick update, I still havent found myself a car. I pretty much have decided now to go for the 520d (manual). I did a search of the Northern dealers and there are very few '08 suitable vehicles (6 months, > 6000km). There was a 520dMSport which appeared to fit the bill, unfortunately when I rang them I found out it was the 158g co2 engine which left the VRT at approx 11k+. I don't think I would have the time to import from UK, though there are some suitable cars over there. Alternative is going for an '06 and not worrying about road tax etc but I suspect the used prices haven't fully reflected the VRT change yet. Anyone any other ideas?

Cheers

Jack

robbie99

I wouldn't rule out cars that are less than 6 months old. I know you'd have to pay the VAT at the Irish rate but the extra cost on a STG £27k car is about €1k (€1,018 to be precise using exchange rate of .79) which is only a small bit extra to pay considering that you're still looking at potentially €5k-€10k savings.

Stevie Dakota

Robbie, I don't quite get your figures there, can you elaborate....

STG £27K = Euro 34K

VAT (car less than 6 months old) on Euro 34K would be Euro 7K +

then VRT on top of that....

robbie99

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Robbie, I don't quite get your figures there, can you elaborate....

STG £27K = Euro 34K

VAT (car less than 6 months old) on Euro 34K would be Euro 7K +

then VRT on top of that....

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Robbie, I don't quite get your figures there, can you elaborate....

STG £27K = Euro 34K

VAT (car less than 6 months old) on Euro 34K would be Euro 7K +

then VRT on top of that....

The advertised UK prices include 17.5% VAT. When buying a car less than 6 months, or less than 6k km, you do not have to pay the UK VAT. Divide the UK price by 1.175 to get the ex-VAT price and calculate from there.

New car

---

UK price = £27k
UK ex-VAT = £27k/1.175 = £22,979
ex-VAT price in euro = 22,979/.79 = €29,087
With Irish 21% VAT = €29,087*1.21 = €35,195

Old Car

---

UK price = £27k
in euro = 27k/.79 = €34,177

And don't forget to add the VRT!

It's very straightforward not to pay the UK VAT. Details are here - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/consumers-vehicle.htm#2 You fill in form VAT 411 and ask dealer to exclude the VAT from the price!

Stevie Dakota

That explains things! Cheers.

mickdw

I always thought that you could buy new in uk less VAT but you are saying that I could buy a used car as long as its below 6k miles and 6 months. Thats interesting. So that matches up with the irish system so.

So If I role up with a car with say 6500 km and 6.5 months old, Do Irish revenue look to see did I pay uk VAT?

robbie99

mickdw wrote: »

So If I role up with a car with say 6500 km and 6.5 months old, Do Irish revenue look to see did I pay uk VAT?

I see what you're trying to exploit Mick

For the purposes of VAT, revenue use the "date of supply" to determine the age of car. Date of supply will be the date of the purchase invoice. Unlike for VRT, there's no point in saying that the car was in storage for a while before bringing it in.

I can't confirm about the mileage but I'd guess that revenue would look for the mileage at time of supply for VAT. I brought in a 320d coupé on July 1st and the mileage was stated on the purchase invoice. There'd be no point for a dealer to overstate the mileage on the purchase invoice because then they wouldn't be able to claim their own VAT back on the car.

But in a recent thread someone said that they knew someone who had brought in a five month old car and managed to get away with having to pay the Irish VAT after "convincing" revenue that VAT was paid in the UK