Long run training pace for marathon

8kvscdpglqnyr4

I see there are a lot of experienced runners on this forum and I was looking for some advice. I'm training for Dublin marathon this year and I'm following Hal Higdon Beginner II program. I've run 2 marathons previously (Cork and Dublin) and my times were 3h37m and 3h28m. For my 3h28m marathon, I followed the "get me around" program and it worked out well for me. I didn't really anaylse my training times and just went out on the day and ran a steady 8min/mile.

For this marathon I want to keep track of my training and make it more structured as I want to reduce my PB time by 5 minutes. For the time I'm aiming for, most of the trianing programs I see say that I should run my long runs and recovery runs at >8m45s/mile ... is this correct? It feels so slow!!!

Also, what pace should I run mid week on the shorter runs?

Thanks!

--amadeus--

Welcome! Not sure if I qualify as one of the "lots of experienced runners" but I'll give an answer a bash...

Every run on your schedule should have a clearly defined purpose, building a specific area of fitness that will benifit you on race day. Your Long Slow Runs (LSRs) are there to build distance endurance. They are the key training element and the single most important workout in the week. They drive physiological changes (not just muscle mass but strengthinging joints, tendons, etc) to enable you to cover 26 miles on hard surfaces and the LSR promotes biochemical changes at a cellular level, for example it encourages your body to burn fat rather than carbohydrate as a fuel source.

In order to specifically target these changes LSRs need to be run at a certain pace. Too fast and you won't get the fat burning benifit and take too much out of yourself and too slow and you're just clocking "junk" miles. The correct pace band is normally considered to be 60 - 90 secs below race pace, so yes I would say that 8:30 - 9 min/miles is pretty much bang on.

Shorter run pace will depend on the point of the session. Some sessions (VO2 max) are sort and very sharp, run almost flat out. Others are lactate threshold and will be run at 10k - 1/2 mara pace. Others may be tempo runs and maybe at planned mara pace. Recovery runs on teh other hand are at LSR pace or even below.

For specifics have a look at this and any questions just yell!

Peckham

+1 to what Amadeus says.

Long Runs are at about 10%-20% slower than marathon pace. My MP is about 6:50 per mile, and if I do any mile on my long runs at faster than 7:30 per mile, then I make a conscious effort to slow down on the next one. Ideally I look at keeping them in the 7.45 range.

I do recovery runs at slower that this, ideally at around 8mins per mile, but sometimes this is too difficult. It's important to keep in mind the purpose of Recovery Runs which is just to keep the muscles moving, and aid the recovery process by clearing the junk out of sore muscles.

Keeping to the correct training pace is one of the most important disciplines in marathon training. If you follow the McMillan link from the post above you won't go too far wrong.

8kvscdpglqnyr4

Thanks a million for the feedback amadeus and Peckham. I really appreciate it.

It just feels so strange to be training for a marathon but yet running so slowly!!! That's really want I wanted to confirm.

hunnymonster

Have you considered running to HR?

8kvscdpglqnyr4

hunnymonster wrote: »

Have you considered running to HR?

I have a HR monitor but I still have to figure out my max HR. I obviously have the theoretical max, but I need to go to the track and find out what it really is.

If I use the theoretical max, then I can run at 8m30s per mile and my HR is below 75%.

hunnymonster

another "theory" one to follow is
http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp
I've never found anyone who has done a maximal running test for who this is more than 3 bpm out. spooky?

Anyway, the track is not the best place to find your max HR. Ideally you would go to a lab (TCD and UCC both have them as I'm sure other unis do. They are always looking for volunteers for studies so you might even get it done for free)

Anyway, if you can't get this done a cheap and dirty version is
-10 min warm up very gently (i.e. don't let your HR do that spikey think it does at the start of a run)
- find a big hill
- run up the big hill as fast as you can
- walk down the big hill
-repeat until you throw up, really until you fall over about to die....
take the highest HR measured as your max HR.
Cool down, stretch etc. This is a very hard run, don't do it on a cold day, don't do it when you have a cold and please check with your GP before undertaking any strenuous exercise (and all other disclaimers!)

Woddle

I found my HR under race conditions, the sports world 5 mile, the last half mile I peaked at 198, so I was happy because I was using 191 (220 minus age 29)

Slogger Jogger

I have found myself running long runs pretty much in line with what Peckham says. All my long runs before Connemara this year were bang on the same 4min 40sec ish pace, for a long hilly 30+ km loop.

6 or so weeks to go to Longford and did my first long run for that today at 4 min 33s pace. The race, with the adhrenaline and the flat course should up that pace quite a bit (with luck).

Racing Flat

Peckham wrote: »

Long Runs are at about 10%-20% slower than marathon pace.

+ 1

The Pete Pfitzinger book Advanced Marathoning explains this well.