N20 Cork to Croom

snappy

:mad:Hi Everybody,
Over the weekend i had a quick glance at the transport21 proposed routes for the new N20 Cork - Croom road. Unfortunately I have had little success finding info on the web about it. I tried all the usual NRA, Cork county council sites and I cant seem to either find a map or detailed data. The reason I ask is that one of the proposed routes looks as if it could fall on my house and you guessed it I want to find out more asap.
If anyone knows where on the net I can get info please post it.

Someday it might be your house! ;-)
thanks
Snappy

Chris_533976

This is the most info thats available at the moment, the PDF on this page.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n20_cork_limerick_motorway_scheme_publications.php

Click on 'view brochure'.

A phonecall to one of the numbers here might help.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n20_cork_limerick_motorway_scheme_current_stage.php

snappy

Thanks Chris for the links. I shall be on the phone tomorrow morning. Unfortunately I get a file corrupt message with the pdf.

Thanks again.

AugustusMaximus

What sort of timeframe are we looking at for this ?

Motorway to start from Blarney is it ?

This going to be a single build ? If so I'd imagine it will be the largest road build in state history ?

snappy

From what I have found the project seems to be split into two sections. Blarney / Mallow and Mallow / Croom. Found a reference to the project on etenders but info was not complete. The plan appears to be to use all or pieces of the existing N20 from Blarney / Rathduff but people I have spoken to said that would cost even more money than starting new. I can't seem to find a completion date but I'll keep looking.

Pgibson

Great to see that it is a motorway not that absurd design the "2-1 offset road" ,or whatever they call it.

The 2-1 road just to the south of Mallow has a SINGLE lane on the "1" side.

Almost very day I meet a JCB or a Tractor on that stretch.

There is no overtaking until you get into the "2" stretch.

After that you get into a "1" stretch again and meet a lorry crawling at 20 MPH.

Worst road design concept I have ever driven on.

I doubt if the designers of the 2-1 road ever actually had to drive on one of the horrible things.

Paul.

childoforpheus

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

What sort of timeframe are we looking at for this ?

Motorway to start from Blarney is it ?

This going to be a single build ? If so I'd imagine it will be the largest road build in state history ?

They hope to start construction in 2010 or 2011. Construction would take 3 to 5 years to complete depending on funding. The scheme is due to progress as a PPP (without tolls by the looks of it).

Motorway would most likely start from the proposed NRR interchange on the N20.

Like snappy said it would pobably be split in two.

Chris_533976

Split in three

Blarney - Newtwopothouse (North of Mallow)
Mallow - Croom
Croom - Patrickswell

Mallow - Croom will be first by any sane guess.
As for the other two I dunno which will be first.

snappy

Went to one of the public meeting about the option plan for the N20 / M20. A lot of people were very concerned. It was not nice as many people huddled around a tiny scale map on the wall to see IF for definite the road fell on you or not.
Didn't get much clear answers and i didn't even get to see my own home on a better map. Lots of junior clerks rabbiting on with textbook answers. "It might!, It could!, Maybe!," I find it hard to accept that even though the options are down to six that no one would declare the preferred route based on their current data. All I came away with is that the total width of exlploratory ground is 300m. The actual width of the motorway is 100m. Two lane up & two lane down. If you are on any proposed route then your at risk of a hit and miss based on the 100metre float. Anyone else got any other info?

Victor

They want people's opinions - give it to them. They can't come up with a preferred route until people give them their opinions.

Pgibson

ALL the routes look great to me.

No preference.

ANYTHING is better than the present road.

Bet the cutbacks mean it'll never be built though.

.

Pgibson

snappy wrote: »

All I came away with is that the total width of exlploratory ground is 300m. ?

The extra width is used to grow plantations of tall trees on either side of the motorway.

Forget about beautiful Irish scenery.

The NRA are planting 1.6 million tall trees every year.

Not stately trees 100 meters apart.

No.

Dense ugly tall hedges of green you can't see beyond.

Soon you will drive from Rosslare to Limerick and on to Galway without ever glimpsing the Irish countryside.


.

Victor

Pgibson wrote: »

The extra width is used to grow plantations of tall trees on either side of the motorway.

No it isn't. The 300m corridor used at design stage is so that they can avoid houses, archaelogical sites, etc. and so they can pick the best point to cross roads, underground services and streams. The actual land used by the finished road would be 25-50 metres.

Pgibson

Clearly you haven't driven on any of the new stretches Victor.

The once magnificent view of Galway Bay as you approached Galway is now a 55ft high trimmed "suburban privet hedge."

Ugly as sin.

.

Victor

Can you still use the old road?

Pgibson

You can go through Oranmore as before.

When the Galway bypass was first built people marvelled at the lovely view of Galway bay it gave.

Then the "hedge builders" moved in.

.

Hotblack Desiato

Pgibson wrote: »

The once magnificent view of Galway Bay as you approached Galway is now a 55ft high trimmed "suburban privet hedge."

Presumably for protection from crosswinds, something totally lacking on a lot of the recently built main routes. Not fun for motorcyclists or lorry drivers, especially - and unsafe.

Pgibson

Wind barriers have their place.

There is such a thing as "proportion".

The NRA has set a mindless aim of planting 1.6 million extremely tall trees every year along every available inch of its motorways.

Tourists come to this country to see the magnificent scenery.

Not to see a solid 80 ft tall wall of green hedges,trimmed to flat on the near-side, everywhere they look.
(As in the last 5 miles drive to the Lee Tunnel from the Dublin side.)

When the multinationals finally flee these shores,as they are doing now in droves, the tourists will have gone long before them...with their money.

Can't imagine the Swiss putting up a green wall in front of the view of the Matterhorn.

.

bawn79

If you want to see the countryside why not drive on N roads? You are not meant to be sight-seeing at 120km per hour.

Plus what about the tourists actually in the countryside not having their view spoilt by a big manky looking motorway. The trees hide the motorway from the countryside not the other way around.

Pgibson

Coillte,the Forestry body, never plants trees right by the road because they learned long long ago the detrimental effect it has on the local tourist industry.

(There was war about this in scenic Kerry,Connemara and Donegal before Ciollte "retreated" several hundred meters back from the roads on scenic routes.)

Coille learned their lesson and now are hyper-aware of the local economies they operate in.

( http://www.coillte.ie/fileadmin/templates/pdfs/BaconReport.pdf )

The NRA has never learned this lesson.

.

Zoney

It's perfectly justified to screen motorways/HQDCs or even smaller national primary routes from the countryside. As someone else pointed out, why would you go sightseeing along a motorway or main road. To the poster who says a lot of the new routes don't have adequate screening - I would not entirely agree. It is just that on some routes the new planting has not entirely grown up. It is only now in 2008 for example that the 2001-built N20 out of Limerick is beginning to be well shielded by mature vegetation (and it looks a lot better than it did at opening too for that).

I would suggest though that the N71 between Kenmare and Glengarrif should use metal crash barriers (fence-like if the low one isn't enough - i.e. so you can see through them) instead of the thick concrete barriers that have been installed. That *does* ruin a scenic drive.

marmurr1916

Tourists are hardly going to use motorways for sight-seeing purposes. If they want to see the Irish countryside, they'll use scenic routes like the Ring of Kerry or drive on quiet, country roads.

On a holiday to Germany earlier this year, we used the autobahns to get quickly from one part of the country to another, for sightseeing we drove on quiet roads in the hills and mountains.

Tourists to Ireland will do exactly the same thing.

Does anyone ever get the feeling that some people love nothing more than moaning and complaining?

Victor

Pgibson wrote: »

Coillte,the Forestry body, never plants trees right by the road because they learned long long ago the detrimental effect it has on the local tourist industry.

(There was war about this in scenic Kerry,Connemara and Donegal before Ciollte "retreated" several hundred meters back from the roads on scenic routes.)

Coille learned their lesson and now are hyper-aware of the local economies they operate in.

( http://www.coillte.ie/fileadmin/templates/pdfs/BaconReport.pdf )

The NRA has never learned this lesson.

I think its good that Coillte learned that. However, often the council or NRA won't have 100m to set back the planting - they might have 5-10m. Trees - the roots - are also important for the stability of cuttings and embankments.

trellheim

ffs trees are major carbon sinks and sound sinks,they also help cover up the eyesore that is a motorway