Pidgeon

José Alaninho

OK, what's the deal with shooting / eating pidgeon? I live in the country and see plenty of them flying around, you know the average grey ones with the white band on the neck. Are they wood pidgeon or what? Or can they be eaten? If so anything to look out for disease wise?

Yours thankfully,

Hunting noob:o

Umiq88

Wouldnt eat feral or common woodies are fine though white lines on their wings. Depends what they're eating if its corn they should be very nice

It wasn't me!

Also worth noting is that pigeons are bound by a close season unless you're shooting them to protect crops, so don't get caught out by that.

José Alaninho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Also worth noting is that pigeons are bound by a close season unless you're shooting them to protect crops, so don't get caught out by that.

What's the season?

greenpeter

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055324392

José Alaninho wrote: »

What's the season?

Hope this helps a bit

jwshooter

José Alaninho wrote: »

OK, what's the deal with shooting / eating pidgeon? I live in the country and see plenty of them flying around, you know the average grey ones with the white band on the neck. Are they wood pidgeon or what? Or can they be eaten? If so anything to look out for disease wise?

Yours thankfully,

Hunting noob:o

pigeon are protected species under the wildlife act ,the can be shot to protect a crop only on the field the crop is in .And its a wood pigeon your looking at .A breast of pigeon is fine tender meat and very under rated .

Mellor

José Alaninho wrote: »

What's the season?

1st November to 31st Jan

Mellor

jwshooter wrote: »

pigeon are protected species under the wildlife act ,the can be shot to protect a crop only on the field the crop is in .And its a wood pigeon your looking at .A breast of pigeon is fine tender meat and very under rated .

That bit is not strictly true.
They can only be shot out of season to protect crops. But no where does it stat in the law that it must be in the same field.

Example:
Woodies are attacking a field of corn. An adjoining field is cut. It is easier to attract the woodies in to the decoys on the stubble. So, it is more efficient to set up on the study to dispatch woodies in the area and and reduce numbers getting at the uncut crops. Even though you are shooting stubble, you are protecting the adjoining uncut field.
In a previous thread, one of our resident rangers said that he wouldn't have a problem with this.

J.R.

Mellor wrote: »

That bit is not strictly true.
They can only be shot out of season to protect crops. But no where does it stat in the law that it must be in the same field.

Example:
Woodies are attacking a field of corn. An adjoining field is cut. It is easier to attract the woodies in to the decoys on the stubble. So, it is more efficient to set up on the study to dispatch woodies in the area and and reduce numbers getting at the uncut crops. Even though you are shooting stubble, you are protecting the adjoining uncut field.
In a previous thread, one of our resident rangers said that he wouldn't have a problem with this.

I agree with you

This point is to be contested in the courts by the NARGC

A chap in Westmeath, last year, was shooting pigeons in a stubble field, beside field of standing corn when a NPWS ranger approached him & confiscated his firearm in presence of Gardai on the grounds that there was no crop to protect in the field he was shooting in.

As he's a NARGC member they are to take the case to court & are very confident of winning.

jwshooter

Mellor wrote: »

That bit is not strictly true.
They can only be shot out of season to protect crops. But no where does it stat in the law that it must be in the same field.

Example:
Woodies are attacking a field of corn. An adjoining field is cut. It is easier to attract the woodies in to the decoys on the stubble. So, it is more efficient to set up on the study to dispatch woodies in the area and and reduce numbers getting at the uncut crops. Even though you are shooting stubble, you are protecting the adjoining uncut field.
In a previous thread, one of our resident rangers said that he wouldn't have a problem with this.

if there on stubbles there doing no harm to a crop so crop protection is not been carried out .end of story .i would be carfull hear ,

Mellor

jwshooter wrote: »

if there on stubbles there doing no harm to a crop so crop protection is not been carried out .end of story .i would be carfull hear ,

Did you even read the whole post?
You are not protecting the stubble, you are protecting the uncut crops in the adjacent field. It is easier to shoot the woodies attacking the crop from the stubble field, using decoys etc
Obviously this doesn't apply is all fields are stubble

jwshooter

J.R. wrote: »

I agree with you

This point is to be contested in the courts by the NARGC

A chap in Westmeath, last year, was shooting pigeons in a stubble field, beside field of standing corn when a NPWS ranger approached him & confiscated his firearm in presence of Gardai on the grounds that there was no crop to protect in the field he was shooting in.

As he's a NARGC member they are to take the case to court & are very confident of winning.

that is more of it . the guy asked about shooting pigeon and i told him a few facts about them and hunting them .should i have sed shoot away as the boys reckon its ok, tell me did the chap from westmeath get his gun back ? will he ever get it back .? what if the nargc loose it ? they will walk away ..he is still fxxxxd even more so .. there is no one more fond of shooting pigeon than me but it will on the cut not stubble till nov .im too fond of my guns to loose them .its about time we as hunters started look after our house a little better

Mellor

I too am fond of the woodies and the shotguns.
I would never do anything that I believe might jepordise these.

Ok, so we all agree that its fine to shoot Nov-Jan inclusive. This is outlined in the Wildlife Act (Open Seasons) 2003 -AFAIK this is the latest. If it is not, the season hasn't changed for woodpigeons

The shooting of woodpigeons is permitted outside of this for the reason set out in the degrogation. (the reasons are serious damage to crops, contamination of food storage or represent a threat to pblic health). It also includes the shooting of feral pigeons and collared doves. But no carriers pigeons, rock pigeons/doves, turtle doves etc.

The legal method for shooting is with rifle or shotgun. Alot of people are believe that it must be shotgun only. But it does not say this anywhere. I personally wouldn't, but to each thier own.

The Wildlife act 1987 sets out the conditions for the derogation. One of these is that the minister can specify all terms and conditions relating to the killing of protected birds outside of the season.
In the relation to woodies and crop damage, the only condition list is that they must be shot. There is no rule listed that you must be in the same field and that you may not be beside it.

Afaik, the wildlife rangers haven't been given specific instructions on what is permitted.
I am basing this on the fact that a ranger in the case highlight above believed that it was not permitted, but other rangers have said it is ok. (Do we know for certain that the man in the case above was adjacent to a uncut field)

NoNameRanger wrote:

All birds are protected!!
There are open seasons for certain species, game species such as ducks, grouse ,pheasants, etc, etc. These are listed on the open seasons order. And they are all closed on the 31st january and the ducks and grouse will open on the 1st of september and the next big one on the calender being the 1st of november for pheasants.

There is another list called a derogation this allows species that cause damage to be killed for specific reason and lists methods allowed. Pigeon can be killed provided they are damaging crops, beware that shooting over stubble is not considered protecting a crop, unless there is a crop nearby of course.

J.R.

The incident in Westmeath - the case hasn't come up in court yet

IRISH SHOOTER'S DIGEST by Des Crofton N.A.R.G.C.

November 2007

Page 68

J.R.

The NARGC stance & interpretation on the shooting of woodpigeons

from their website: http://www.nargc.ie

CLARIFICATION ON THE
SHOOTING OF WOODPIGEON

In so far as this Statutory Instrument (S.I.) gives effect to a derogation as permitted under Article 9 of the 79/409 Birds Directive, game shooters should take note of the following important aspects of the S.I.

The First Schedule lists the species to which the derogation applies and the woodpigeon is included in the schedule. The second Schedule lists the means by which the species in the First Schedule may be controlled and this includes for all the listed species killing by shooting with a shotgun.

Section 3(1) states that where the species (including woodpigeon) listed in the First Schedule

(ii) is likely to cause serious damage to crops, livestock,
fisheries or forestry

or

(iii) is likely to cause damage to flora and fauna,

the Minister may declare that such species may be killed by any of the means listed in the Second Schedule in any part of the state or throughout the state.

Game shooters’ should in particular note the wording of the S.I. which states that the species (including woodpigeon) do not have to be actually causing damage but are “likely to cause serious damage…” {see Section 3(1)(ii) and (iii)}. Therefore, it is patently not necessary to observe woodpigeons feeding on crops or to be even close to crops. However, the shooting must take place during a period when crops are in the ground.

It should also be noted that the S.I. allows for the killing to take place “in any part of the state or throughout the state”. The place within or throughout the state is unconditional and nowhere does it state “in any part of the state or throughout the state except over stubble”. These unambiguous provisions are at the heart of a dispute between NARGC and the National Parks & Wildlife Service. The position of NPWS is that the S.I. is to be interpreted as meaning crop protection cannot possibly be undertaken by shooting over stubble. Any reading of the S.I. reveals this to be an incorrect interpretation. It is an interpretation which NPWS has never published and neither is it supported by any legal or statutory provision. Nor does bear any similarity to the explanatory note published with the S.I. Additionally, the control of woodpigeon, crows etc, is by far the most effective when conducted over stubble.

Furthermore, Section 6(1)(b) of the S.I. provides very specifically that an Authorised Officer (Wildlife Ranger) may only approach and seek information from a landowner over whose land the control is taking place. And the information which the Authorised Officer may request is limited to the number of birds killed or captured and the means by which they have been killed or captured. He/she may also seek information pertaining to the type, quantity and frequency of any poisons which have been laid for the purposes of controlling the species. There is no provision permitting any approach to be made to any person who is not the landowner or for the seizure of any property of a person who is not the landowner.


While NPWS disagrees with the aforementioned, the matters referred to in this explanatory note are due to be determined by the courts in the not too distant future. You can download the relevent Statutory Instrument by clicking here.

J.R.

Mellor wrote: »

The legal method for shooting is with rifle or shotgun. Alot of people are believe that it must be shotgun only. But it does not say this anywhere. I personally wouldn't, but to each thier own.

The NARGC seem to state above that only shotgun can be used for pigeon control, if I'm reading it correctly!

José Alaninho

In a nutshell lads, unless they're damaging crops, only shoot from November to January, correct?

jwshooter

José Alaninho wrote: »

In a nutshell lads, unless they're damaging crops, only shoot from November to January, correct?

YES jose ,

José Alaninho

That's all I needed. Cheers.

bitemybanger

José Alaninho wrote: »

That's all I needed. Cheers.

Get used to it Jose, tou cant ask what colour cartridges you use in here without a whole "but its not legal" "yes it is, no its not, yes it is arguement starting:rolleyes:

bunny shooter

bitemybanger wrote: »

Get used to it Jose, tou cant ask what colour cartridges you use in here without a whole "but its not legal" "yes it is, no its not, yes it is arguement starting:rolleyes:

WTF it straight forward enough, they have a season, and outside that you can shoot 'em to protect crops.

I think you'll find that a certain shooting organisation lobbied for this because a few money hungry "shooters" were selling shooting to foreigners, mainly Italians, under the guise of pigeon shooting and they were shooting everything that flew, including sparrows :mad:

bitemybanger

bunny shooter wrote: »

WTF it straight forward enough, they have a season, and outside that you can shoot 'em to protect crops.

i think everybody is clear on that from previous posts, just putting him wide to all the handbags in here, feels good th get it off my chest too

bunny shooter

bitemybanger wrote: »

.......i think everybody is clear on that from previous posts, just putting him wide to all the handbags in here, feels good th get it off my chest too

Ever hear the saying, don't let the f***ers grind ya down

José Alaninho

bitemybanger wrote: »

Get used to it Jose, tou cant ask what colour cartridges you use in here without a whole "but its not legal" "yes it is, no its not, yes it is arguement starting:rolleyes:

My cartridges are transparent- that's not even a colour!:rolleyes: But my question has been answered. Thanks again guys.

Mellor

J.R. wrote: »

The second Schedule lists the means by which the species in the First Schedule may be controlled and this includes for all the listed species killing by shooting with a shotgun.

J.R. wrote: »

The NARGC seem to state above that only shotgun can be used for pigeon control, if I'm reading it correctly!

Thats what I though they were saying too, but then I read it twice, its just the way they phrase it. To spell it out little, the 2nd schedule lists the acceptable means of control, and this includes shotguns.
But it is no limited to shotguns. I would say this if it was something I overheard, I learnt this from dowloading the SI in question. To state again, I personally wouldn't use a rifle.

José Alaninho wrote: »

My cartridges are transparent- that's not even a colour!:rolleyes: But my question has been answered. Thanks again guys.

Careful, in an increasingly over PC and sareful world, scary things mean evil.
I wouldn't be be surprised if they were baned for looking dangerous,
Happy shooting

J.R.

Mellor,

You're exactly right - checked it out here - thanks!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/si/0254.html

S.I. No. 254/1986:

EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES (WILDLIFE ACT, 1976) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS, 1986.

EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES (WILDLIFE ACT, 1976) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS, 1986.

FIRST SCHEDULE.

Carrion Crow.

Hooded (Grey) Crow.

Magpie.

Rook.

Jackdaw.

Starling.

Herring Gull.

Greater Black-backed Gull.

Lesser Black-backed Gull.

Sparrow.

Pigeon, including Wood Pigeon, but not including Carrier Pigeons, Racing Homing Pigeons or Doves.

SECOND SCHEDULE

Shooting with rifle or shotgun.

Poisoned or anaesthetic bait.

Cage traps with or without live decoys.

Traps, snares or nets approved under the Wildlife Act, 1976 (Approved Traps, Snares and Nets) Regulations, 1977 ( S.I. No. 307 of 1977 ).

GIVEN under my Official Seal this 11th day of July, 1986.

LIAM KAVANAGH,

Minister for Tourism,

Fisheries and Forestry.