Symbian | Linux | iPhone

Martyr

i'm sure some.. or maybe all of you read in the news about Nokias decision to open source Symbian OS.

Do you think this is good, bad or just too late? don't care?
What mobile OS do you see dominating the market in future? and why?

Also, what are your thoughts on the OpenMoko Neo FreeRunner, can it compete with iPhone successfully?

The Neo FreeRunner has a VGA (480-by-640 pixel) touchscreen, internal GPS, Bluetooth, a 400MHz processor, 802.11b/g Wi-Fi, two 3D accelerometers and SD-card expandability. Unusually for a mobile phone, it also includes a USB host function, meaning it can be used to power USB devices.

FergalBoards.ie

Very obvious problem with this is that it has no 3G. But it's approx the same price as an iPhone.

Re: Open Source. So what?

I love Microsoft stuff. When there was a lot of buzz about Open Source though, I was open-minded and tried Open Office. Nightmare. Nothing from a webpage formats right.

The 12 year olds trying to take over the world in the Open Source movement have had many years to address this issue and it's still a disaster in the latest release.

On the other hand Office just gets better and better at handling web pages.

Open Office still doesn't even do things like Title Case right. Very basic stuff.

I'm back in the Office camp, and I'm not impressed that this phone uses open source software. As far as I can see so far, Open Source = Less functionality. Period.

Until it can demonstrate an advantage stemming from this, it's just an overpriced 2G phone, at a 3G price.

strecker

FergalBoards.ie wrote: »

Very obvious problem with this is that it has no 3G. But it's approx the same price as an iPhone.

Re: Open Source. So what?

I love Microsoft stuff. When there was a lot of buzz about Open Source though, I was open-minded and tried Open Office. Nightmare. Nothing from a webpage formats right.

The 12 year olds trying to take over the world in the Open Source movement have had many years to address this issue and it's still a disaster in the latest release.

On the other hand Office just gets better and better at handling web pages.

Open Office still doesn't even do things like Title Case right. Very basic stuff.

I'm back in the Office camp, and I'm not impressed that this phone uses open source software. As far as I can see so far, Open Source = Less functionality. Period.

Until it can demonstrate an advantage stemming from this, it's just an overpriced 2G phone, at a 3G price.

you were nor "open-minded" - else you wouldn't claim it's all a conspiracy by 12 year olds...:heard firefox? You pick a single prob with open office of your open-minded life's time, and deduce it's all rubbish? Heard of vista basic? Vista-ready? Per user queued error report bug? Now, there are "issues" worthy of dissing, ooh, say: windows... A single problem with the one freeware product you heard off compared to a hundreds of dollar "scam" affecting millions???


nokia's internet tablets run linux, so do some motorola phones ... But yeah, they are a bunch of 12 year olds, I forgot!

oh, and yeah, google's android? But google are a bunch of teen slackers, right?

ethernet

What has an open-source office suite got to do with this in all fairness?

I look forward to seeing how Android develops. It will be great to be able to compare at least two other open-source OSes developed especially for phones.

I dislike Nokia's refusal to give greater support to open-source formats. It's a pity. I like Symbian but find it can be a little sluggish. Would welcome have the opportunity to hack something I didn't like about the software running on a device.

FergalBoards.ie

Open Office is the most widely used open source product outside of Firefox.

I drew the comparison because I don't see any track record of Open Source being better than proprietary products. I could fill a book the size of The Bible with problems I had with it, but I gave two, (not one) non-controversial, easily-demonstrable examples.

If you save a webpage in Internet Explorer it saves the pictures, in Firefox it doesn't.

I could go on and on about Firefox too, but that would definitely bring the thread off topic.

So what is so good about an Open Source phone?

If you factor out the Open Source, it's a 2G phone at a 3G price.

If you factor in Open Source, let's hear some benefits that justify such an astonishing price.

strecker

FergalBoards.ie wrote: »

Open Office is the most widely used open source product outside of Firefox.






So what is so good about an Open Source phone?

If you factor out the Open Source, it's a 2G phone at a 3G price.

yes, that phone is, but are you suggesting all future phones using open source-ish os will be 2g? Are you suggesting open source os means no 3g? And as another poster said: what have your ff/oo probs to do with this? You run both on windows right? In a virtual linux environment? No, I'm presumptious and guess you run the windows adapted versions, right? So again: your points are not relevant to the open source phone OS query of the op... But considering your stance and in allusion to your "12 year old" comment: are you a 12 year old windows fanboy?

FergalBoards.ie

I'm suggesting none of those things.

Go on, tell me the advantage of Open Source, in phones and show me a good open source phone that doesn't come crippled with all the lack of common functionality that I have experienced in PCs.

Certainly, I don't see it in this phone and btw as you raise the topic, can you point to an Open Source Phone with 3G?

ethernet

FergalBoards.ie wrote: »

... If you save a webpage in Internet Explorer it saves the pictures, in Firefox it doesn't ...

Not the case.

strecker

FergalBoards.ie wrote: »

I'm suggesting none of those things.

Go on, tell me the advantage of Open Source, in phones and show me a good open source phone that doesn't come crippled with all the lack of common functionality that I have experienced in PCs.

Certainly, I don't see it in this phone and btw as you raise the topic, can you point to an Open Source Phone with 3G?

do you read? "future" releases!? "coming" releases?!

but, hey:
How about 100's of windows mobile phones without an apps close button? With a taskmanager hidden where it can't be reached when needed

how about an apple iphone without 3g, without copy/paste, without saving web pages, with full multitasking?

are you suggesting there is a non-open source phone with full pc-functionality?

sure, you can turn a wm ppc or smartphone into sth fairly good - with loads of 3rd party apps...
Nokia's internet tablets are not phones, but almost (voip is already there...) - they run debian (and you can install various other flavours of linux)...out of the box they are less flawed in respect of what they claim to be (!!!) than an out of the box wm phone! We are at wm6.1, 7 on the horizon! Including the pro-versions, the .1-versions you have a dozen or so wm's - it's still very very flawed, and hardly anywhere near a PC-experience unless you are a tech-writer for cnn online... Heck: vista is hardly a real pc-experience for that matter

if you think HTC are NOT gonna build a 3g Android phone in the future, we can only wait and see, right?!
Furthermore, lets not even go into the "open source" definition: a lot of 3g phones run so-called proprietary os's that are in fact just bits and pieces of all sorts of code, and there are so many open source hack tools for any java phone to hack it to beyond recognition - when does a modded java phone become open source?

but.... I'm sure you'll point out a flaw in the Gimp which totally proves that an open source camera phone is impossible, right?

funny, I don't even care: I use ubuntu and xp and vista - I have a couple of s60 3rd phones, a wm etc... And I use them appropriately, as all come with sth the others don't have... An open source phone, imho, will not be perfect - just like an iphone, a htc diamond or not diamond, or a nokia N xxx, but it will be 3g, and it will infuse the industry with new ideas...

but, I can see how as a purist you wish to understand the world perfectly, and it's gotten harder since, eh, what, windows 2000 and colour screens on phones....

oh, and if you insist on evidence for a 3g linux based phone that'll serve as a stepping stone to 3g open source phones:
http://www.cellphonenews2.mobi/stories/10405/NXP_and_Purple_Labs_Unveil_First_Sub100_3G_Linux_Mobile_Phone.html

and if 3g hadn't been so neglected in the US of A prior to the iphone 3g hype, don't you think Moto would've/could've done that bit more to make the razr2 V8 3g????(or, for that matter, had there been a real 3g network, the iphone I???) But smartly, you added the "pc functionality" demand, and well: there is NO PHONE, not ONE with that "pc functionality", so stop barking up weird trees... Or don't, but add sth that is a bit more interesting... Aren't you an open-minded sorta guy???

FergalBoards.ie

This is becoming very sore. I'm not interested.

This phone is a 2G phone at a 3G price that can show to me at least no convincing benefit from its Open Source architecture, and my experience of desktop open source programs would lead me to believe that it is by no means guaranteed that reasonable functionality will be added.

BTW, as an open-minded person, I don't have a WM phone. I use a proprietary Nokia system. Yes it borrows bits from Linux, but it's not Open Source. I bought it because of convincing here-and-now benefits over both WM and other OS.

Name a phone that has call record, PC functionality and 3G? There are very few and the propreitary-at-the-time-of-purchase Nokia was the only one that ticked the boxes for me.

These benefits came before any movement to Open Source.
I'm not expecting any significant, beneficial new features as a result of the recent change, although I would be delighted if they came.

This phone is approximately the same price as the Neo Free Runner.

As far as I can see, it lacks nothing that the Free Runner has and has features that the Free Runner doesn't.

Real world example.

It may not be the right phone for you, (the Nokia) but I am pretty confident that this phone is poor value for money (the Free Runner).

h57xiucj2z946q

I for one, would like a phone running google's android platform.

In my opinion, open/close source has no effect on stability.

towel401

I don't like this openmoko or 'android' thing. Its oversimplified, like a mac or iphone is

Big ugly shiny buttons on a touch screen, reliance on 'web apps', lightbox-style user interface and dumb down just like the iPhone's OS is.

I hate the way the iPhone OS and it's clones are made to look gimmicky for the sake of making it more user friendly for people who don't know how to use a phone. A linux phone sounds great, but I want it to have a Python interpeter like S60, ssh and all the things you would expect with a desktop Linux distro. Not some basic, dumbed down UI with some flashy animations and DRM restrictions running on top of the Linux kernel. There is also a tendency for these 'new world' phone operating systems to be largely touchscreen based but I prefer regular keypads.

I once had a phone that ran vxWorks - a rare OS used on the mars rover, some versions of the WRT54G and various other pieces of oddball hardware. but it operated just like an ordinary basic model mobile phone. you couldn't even install apps on it. so it doesn't really matter what operating system the phone runs as long as the user interface they build around it is good.

towel401

FergalBoards.ie wrote: »

This phone is a 2G phone at a 3G price

There's quite a few 2G Vertu phones going around that cost more than the 3G iPhone. the people who buy those things will just want to customise the hell out of it, and thats why they buy it. 3G isn't all that exciting anyway - its just like EDGE but a bit faster. Not even that much faster.

i still won't buy it because I don't like touchscreen based phones but I'm sure plenty of people will.

strecker

FergalBoards.ie wrote: »

This is becoming very sore. I'm not interested.


Name a phone that has call record, PC functionality and 3G? There are very few and the propreitary-at-the-time-of-purchase Nokia was the only one that ticked the boxes for me.


quote]
what on earth is that "pc functionality" you're on about? and now "call record"... you must be fun at tennis: net down when you hit, net aaaaallllll the way up and upper when s.o. is supposed to return .... this is really funny!:P:p:D

Btw, I got an N95/8 and e61 - I've heard of Nokia
What IS PC-FUNCTIONALITY? Tell me, so we can actually get on with it?



anyway a 3g mobile linux device: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/070808-giga-byte-chunghwa-to-launch-linux.html

"
Taiwanese electronics maker Giga-byte Technology has teamed up with mobile phone service provider Chunghwa Telecom to launch the M528 mobile Internet device in August, a Giga-byte representative said.
The M528 is a small, handheld device with a 4.8-inch touchscreen that runs a Linux OS and uses an 800MHz Intel Centrino Atom microprocessor as its calculating engine. It's part of a new breed of handheld devices the PC industry hopes will catch on as a way for people to surf the Web from just about anywhere. What makes it different from a mobile phone is its larger screen. The biggest mobile phone screens, even when the entire face is used, still top out at around three inches.

The M528 will be packaged with 3G (third-generation telephony) service from Chunghwa Telecom when it launches in Taiwan, for HSDPA/HSUPA (High Speed Downlink/Uplink Packet Access) Web surfing. The device can also access the Web via Wi-Fi 802.11b/g.
The Giga-byte representative said the price of the handheld hasn't yet been determined since it will be bundled with a 3G contract. The hardware may be priced lower to entice users to sign up for Chunghwa's service. "

Jonathan

FergalBoards.ie wrote: »

I drew the comparison because I don't see any track record of Open Source being better than proprietary products.

Firefox, Pidgin, FileZilla, InfraRecorder, VLC, uTorrent, PuTTY, Gimp, 7-ZIP, Paint.net, Notepad++, Python but to name a few...

h57xiucj2z946q

Netbeans, Eclipse, a couple more.

MrVestek

Lads Fergal isn't going to be convinced, he seems very set in his ways. I personally love FOSS and find it much better than alot of propriatory products on the market.

Lads leave him be, if he wants to be an idiot that spends €300+ on an office suite that you can get a free equivilent of then by all means, why not let him?

turly

FergalBoards.ie is missing the point. With Open Source, if I see something I'd like to change, I can change it.

And speaking of OO, I haven't used it in a long time so I won't comment, but I use Word every now and then and wish I was back with FullWrite Professional (which might date me a bit :-)

MrVestek

turly wrote: »

FergalBoards.ie is missing the point. With Open Source, if I see something I'd like to change, I can change it.

And speaking of OO, I haven't used it in a long time so I won't comment, but I use Word every now and then and wish I was back with FullWrite Professional (which might date me a bit :-)

Ahh it's not all bad, you could have said Star Office :P